WordWolf

BTW, I'm sure that, at least THIS quote, is an urban legend. http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/grouchocigar.asp

Well, I know this is a TOS episode, because the character "Gem" had a listing in "Who's Who in Star Trek", which predated NextGen. So, she was either in one of the early movies (I would recognize the story) or in The Animated Series (which we don't allow), she was in the original series. ========= This episode wasn't "the Empath", was it?

I believe God speaks in different fashions to different people at different times, or the same person in different styles at different styles. twi instills a smug "we are the only ones right" attitude in everyone it touches (with very few exceptions, and I wasn't one of them.) It can take years or DECADES to free oneself of it, if ever. The wayfer is not allowed to think things over-not HONESTLY, because coming up with different conclusions, even when you can make an airtight case for something-is never allowed. One thing I've learned through the years and the many, many mistakes I've made is that a relationship has to be made of what I consider to be three pillars, more than anything else: Respect Acceptance Trust I can't see how there's any chance for all three while she's in twi and you're thinking for yourself. She can't respect you coming up with different conclusions than twi, and can't respect YOU, not fully, not without conditions/ She certainly can't accept you beyond "maybe he will join twi", can't accept you if you remain as you are in beliefs. Trust? twi says they have to hold more allegiance than your spouse, your family. twi demands MORE trust than any loved one, or ALL loved ones. That doesn't mean a relationship isn't possible- but a HEALTHY relationship doesn't have a chance like that. That's my input, for what it's worth. I wasn't entirely different from you, at one time. I hope you'll stick around with us, whether or not you're connected with twi at any point.

It grows on you. As does a fungus. :) Well, most of the discussion is actually pretty civil. Some discussions (you'll see them on your own) have one or more emotional posters and WILL get less civil, but that's true anywhere people are actually allowed to think for themselves and communicate freely. Loud and heated sometimes, yes, but healthier than the alternative you've already known. "What became of twi." That covers a lot of ground, and a lot of information. There's information you never even IMAGINED, here. What people carried when they left-and still carry-varies widely. Some people have embraced the coping mechanisms they learned in twi, also-which you'll see. Most have not. Feel free to express your opinion. Please don't do it in an insulting, abusive, arrogant or "I know it all and you are all idiots" manner. Each of those tends to get responses which some would see as the natural consequence of "another idiot has arrived and is posting." Some of those people, actually, adjust, and become posters that contribute on their own in a civil fashion. Hopefully, you can skip this step and just post friendly, and disagree politely if you must disagree. At any rate, welcome, and enjoy your stay.

Using someone's fame or credentials to puff up twi was a practice vpw started. As lcm reported in "vp and me", vpw put a judge on the main stage at an ROA for that reason-despite there being reasons to NOT put him there. "Incident of the Federal judge that took the class. Dr recommended that he be put on mainstage at the ROA to speak to the audience. Dr didn't think that he deserved to be put in stage as he had little or no humility. But Dr felt that it would be a major feather in the cap to have a man of such stature in our ministry." lcm continued the practice. "Tony Collins-New England Patriots- WOW pin. LCM was unsure as to whether he should go to New Englandnin advance of the ROA to give him a WOW pin. All the local leadership were against it. They thought that it was being a "RESPECTER OF PERSONS". After talking it over with Dr, he decided to do it as it would further the ministry."" ======= For those who missed that one.... Oakspear: "What went on here? Why did Tony Collins get a WOW pin?" Outin88: "I was there at that Massachusetts limb meeting when they gave Tony Collins a wow pin. They also brought Joyful noise in and made a big deal that Tony was getting this pin. Being a "Respecter of persons" is exactly what I was thinking at the time. mad.gif Oakspear said; "What went on here? Why did Tony Collins get a WOW pin?" I was told he did some kind of "special athletic wow program", because he was a pro football player and could not take time off from the season they made a special exception for him. Wasn't that special! dry.gif I wondered back then and still do, exactly what he did as a special wow. Can you say "Respecter fo Persons"? Oh but it helped further the ministy. rolleyes.gif " ===== We've also come a long way without discussing who Hayes Gahagan was. Don: "He was a State Senator from Maine, who ran for the U.S. Senate, and got clobbered. He then developed a "seminar" for twi's "word in government" arm, called "the Blessings of Liberty" This seminar and "word in government" concept was hijacked by T0m Jenk1ns0n as Gahagan faded into the background of twi "has-beens". http://www.portlandphoenix.com/features/po...ts/04242150.asp November 5 - 11, 2004 "Forget the doofusses who prevailed at the ballot box on Nov. 2. It’s time to honor the real winners of the 2004 election with the most coveted of political trophies: The Gaggie. The Gaggie is named for Hayes Gahagan, whose independent US Senate candidacy in 1978 is best remembered for his claim that persons unknown had altered his advertising to insert subliminal pictures of genitalia in his hair. These awards are presented to those who embody the Gahagan tradition of being a couple of lawn signs shy of a campaign." ================================== http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2007/06/...e_crazy_ca.html June 07, 2007 When crazy candidates attack "I just came across an incredible campaign anecdote while working on my dissertation. Check out this excerpt from a Washington Post story on the 1978 US Senate race in Maine: Three independents are challenging Hathaway and Cohen, but only one of them, former state senator Hayes Gahagan, was expected to attract many votes. The campaign of the 30-year-old conservative has foundered, however, since he announced that someone had implanted the word "sex" on his face in his campaign photographs. He says he has since discovered the same word appears in Cohen and Hathaway campaign photographs and he makes no claim to know who is doing the implants. But he is calling for a congressional investigation of what he terms "a national scandal" of subliminal advertising. His problem is that people outside his campaign, including this reporter, can't see the words even with the aid of a magnifying glass. Just to reiterate, Gahagan wasn't some random loon; he was a former state senator who was a serious enough candidate that the Post reporter actually got out a magnifying glass to look for the word "sex." Wow." ============================== http://thephoenix.com/article_ektid61942.aspx "Get awkward How many times do you have to do something weird before you’re permanently designated a wacko? I’m not sure, but Hayes Gahagan has to be getting close. In 1978, Gahagan, then a Republican state senator associated with a religious cult called The Way, quit the party to run for the US Senate as an independent. That September, he announced that persons unknown had somehow inserted subliminal photos of genitalia into his campaign photos. He lost the election. Today, Gahagan lives in Presque Isle and is a member of the Republican State Committee. He recently wrote a Bangor Daily News op-ed piece in which he called liberals and Democrats “National Socialists.” National Socialists? As in Nazis? “National Socialism did not work in Germany,” he wrote, “it did not work in Italy; it did not work in the Soviet Union; it is not working in North Korea, Iran, Cuba or Venezuela. National Socialism will not work in the United States of America.” If Democrats are Nazis, does that make Republicans commies? ============================ ToadFriend noted that twi's official support for Hayes Gahagan for Maine's State Senate is what almost cost twi its tax-exempt status. "...around the time the Way was trying to get folks to support Hayes Gahagan for the Maine Senate, which later almost cost them their tax-exempt status..." =========== Jkboehme: "I think VPW placed Jimmy Doop to head the Gahaygan campaign for TWI: money, support, people, etc. As ToadFriend noted, this incident induced the IRS to set up camp on TWI HQ for several years to audit TWI’s books. It seems odd to me that intensive IRS investigation was somehow just dropped; I smell a plea bargain or possible bribe somewhere in the mix." ============= Shazdancer: "I'd like to hear if anyone knows if TWI got nailed on the Hayes Gahagan thing. For those who may not know, Hayes was a PFAL grad (did he go any higher than that? I don't know) who was state senator in Maine. Perhaps you can fill in more of the details -- did he run for federal office? I remember Wierwille speaking from the stage in endorsement of his campaign. Oopsie, that's a blatant violation of the 501©(3) federal laws governing not-for-profit organizations. The organization cannot endorse a political candidate, and certainly can't contribute organization monies or services to one." "he third major thing is, they organization is not allowed to endorse a political candidate. I have recently found a copy of the letter Wierwille sent in 1976 telling us he endorsed Maine Senator Hayes Gahagan. Although Wierwille does not use TWI letterhead, and denies that the org is endorsing the guy, Wierwille nonetheless used TWI's mailing list for this mailing -- oops! He's lucky he didn't lose TWI altogether over that one." ====== pjroberge: "I recently talked to Hayes and he said that when TWI lost their tax exempt status over this issue that TWI probably lost millions...." ======= GrouchoMarxJr: "The Hayes Gahagan era ushered in a new dimension to twi...I think it was roa 76 or 77...political jabber was on everyone's lips...talk of getting a pfal grad into the White house was the goal...Tom J got involved with the political agenda as well...twiers were encouraged to get involved with local politics and make a "difference". When I first took the advanced class in 1978, it was extremely political...all the illuminati stuff, etc...when I went into residence in 79, I would say that twi had gone into the "Jim Jones" category with all the MAL pack stuff...and in the meantime, twiers were being encouraged to attend John Birch Society meetings, develope survival skills and get ready for the poop to hit the fan."

Since I was unclear, I didn't stand in line for the showers, dressed or not. But they DID lack curtains.

CORRECT! It was Thomas Paine. His two most famous works were: - "the Crisis", written during the American Revolution as a pep talk, the first part, which I quoted, was read to soldiers at Washington's order -"Common Sense", which was going to be my next set of quotes. Those of you who sat through Schoolhouse Rock should remember Thomas Paine wrote "Common Sense" even if you've never heard of "the Crisis." I have a book-copy of "the Crisis" somewhere. Both books are available online for free, of course. ========== Ok, Mstar, the rules are familiar and simple. It is now YOUR turn. YOU pick an author (someone relatively well-known.) Using books from the author, or checking online (or any other way you have), you post quotes from the author. Without looking them up, we have to guess which author it is. Once one of us gets it right, the first who does, it's now THEIR turn.

I showered very, very early and stayed as far away from others as I could manage. Of course, at ROA '89, so many fewer people were there than the previous year that I had the showers to myself with less effort.

"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated." "I have as little superstition in me as any man living, but my secret opinion has ever been, and still is, that God Almighty will not give up a people to military destruction, or leave them unsupportedly to perish, who have so earnestly and so repeatedly sought to avoid the calamities of war, by every decent method which wisdom could invent."

http://zmpp.sourceforge.net/games/index.html All you had to do was ask. :)

Thomas Aquinas? ============== "So I'm in this movie theater, and there's this ugly, sleazy pervert in the theater besides me. I mean beside me. And he says to me 'Is this seat saved?' I replied 'Well, with Aquinas arguing that even animals have no souls, how much less of a chance does an inanimate object like a CHAIR have of gaining eternal salvation?' 'No-I mean, is anyone SITTING there?' Ah. Ambiguity. The Devil's Volleyball."

I think that leaves two possibilities. I'll try St Francis of Assisi.

Most of US were involved in trying to do our best for God and do what God wanted. Most of US would help people when we could. We didn't even have to read the specific verse that says that you should help others when it's within your power to do so. Throwing a bunch of insults out doesn't change that, nor does it add to the discussion. In fact, it proves TheHighWay's comment:

CORRECT! Although I question just how good a "pinball wizard" he can be, relying on "intuition" and "sense of smell" to play, since he's deaf and blind.

*snicker*

I don't think I've posted it before, but I've said it aloud. When it comes to vpw and "compassion", I think he used a definition I heard once on Benny Hill, said to the little bald guy (Jack Wright): "...and I know what your definition is of 'compassion'- 'a little fellow-feeling'." ======== I think vpw was capable of generosity and interest if you were one of his favourites. HCW has MANY fond memories of vpw, including some nice things vpw did. I question that being actual "compassion." I say our measure of compassion can be measured more by what we do for those from whom we can expect no favours in return.

You left out calling them "FEARFUL"- as in -phobic. Now, an arachnophobe is AFRAID of spiders. Bring a spider into the room, walk up to them with it, and they will RUN out of the room. (I knew someone who did Psych experiments where this exact thing happened.) An ophidophobe is AFRAID of lizards and snakes. They can have trouble READING about them. (Again, I knew someone who this happened to.) I'm not aware of anyone who can't even READ about homosexuals, or who has to run out of the room when one enters the room, even if one approached them. Why is it, then, that many people I know would be labelled "homoPHOBES"? How did "I disagree" become "that means this FILLS YOU WITH FEAR?"

"Even at my favourite table, he can beat my best"

Had to be a BIG SHOT, didn't you... (Billy Joel)

I saw it in the theater in the 90s. It wasn't a 1/2 empty theater. However, I think few people ON THIS BOARD saw it. (If it was really obscure, I couldn't find lots of quotes.) Go ahead, George, let's move this along.... And if you ever get a chance, this is a light, fun movie, with comedy, action, and "family values."

Oh, I think they're SUCH liars if this is what they're claiming. There were about 5000 members, including children, a few years back. I put ADULT membership at 3500 back then, with the rest as minors. I think twi is STILL hemorrhaging members, even if it's at a much slower rate, since all the more reasonable people left years ago, and more stubborn people slowly wake up. (Or their family wakes up and they can leave together.) If the membership is currently at 3000 adults, I'd say that's correct. I am NOT convinced they DOUBLED IN SIZE since a few years ago.

My! As time passes, the numbers of people who were in twi increase exponentially! No doubt, eventually they'll pass 200 million, and the entire US population will have been in once. Ok, let's fix what numbers we can. twi never gave EXACT numbers. 200,000, AFAIK, never came from anywhere until this post. HALF that is 100,000. Some people think twi either had 100,000 members at its apex, or all together as members. This comes from the inflation of something vpw himself said. (And HE was no stranger to exagerration himself, so what he SAID is suspect.) He said that there were 100,000 people in "the book of life", which, in plain English was the list of everyone who signed up for pfal. Now, does that mean twi had 100,000 people total? Let's remember how the numbers broke down. Out of those who signed up and paid, not everyone showed up to Session 1. (When I first took it, we had 8 sign up, and seven showed up for Session 1, with six making it to Session 2.) Out of those who showed up to Session 1, not everyone showed up for Session 12. (When I first took it, THREE of us completed Session 12-myself, and 2 people in twi families.) Out of those who showed up to Session 12, not everyone was around for a full year following that. (In my case, all 3 were, but I think we had dropoffs that accounted for it early.) Someone said the best rule-of-thumb to measure membership in twi (no matter that twi refused to CALL it "membership" and engaged in sophistry and lies when asked) was to count the number of attendees at that year's ROA and then double that number, and that's the total membership at that time. I've found that to be accurate, and when 4/5 left in 1989 as a result of lcm's demands for loyalty, the ROA attendance dropped to 1/5 what ROA 88's attendance was. IIRC (and I may not), that put maximum membership #s at any one time at around 38,000 in 1982, and numbers drop sharply before and after that. (I may be inflating the number.) That's a LOT less than 200,000. As for 600, it would not surprise me if OFFICIAL membership of adults was at 600 now. I don't have a source for that number other than the post above, however.

"You brought our baby into a knife fight?" "It was a fair fight. Two of them, two of us... " "You should have seen these guys, complete amateurs. Biggest risk was I'd fall down laughing and hurt myself." "There was an attempted mugging half a block from here tonight." "Really?" "The victim got away." "Oh, good." "You don't know nothing about that?" "No, I don't think so." "You match the description of the intended victim: a man with a baby stroller." "And we got us a bag lady that says she saw the man enter this hotel." "And the desk clerk says that man was you." "Well that certainly narrows it down doesn't it." "One man on the couch. Reading." "A literate burgler? How refreshing." "Well who is it? The President? *laughs* " "*laughs* No, sir. It's the Governor." "Who is this again?" "This is Muerte." "Oh, hi, Morty." "No! No Morty! MUERTE! DEATH!" "Yeah, okay, right death..." "You're under arrest. You have the right to remain silent. If you give up that right you may talk, sing, dance, impersonate Elvis or anything else you like. You have the right to an attorney. If you're broke and can't afford one, tough sh*! Now get in the car you suspected felon you!" "Darling, do the oysters come with guns?" "We can tell you part of the story." "You can tell me all of the story." "Part or nothing." "Well how about we bust your @$$ for B and E." "Well how about we talk to that nice governor of yours." "...........Ok, tell me part of the story." "Well, it's hard to know where to begin. My father was a steam fitter, and..." " The relevant part, man." "What just happened here?" "I'd say it was a domestic disturbance." "A domestic disturbance?" "Yeah like on the Honeymooners. You remember how Ralph used to fight with Alice." "I don't recollect Ralph using semi-automatic weapons." "But Norton sometimes did. And Mrs. Manicotti on the third floor, wow what a temper." "My source at the FBI said they didn't think you were, and I quote, 'Bureau material.' "That's true. I'm more of an end table." "I always thought of you as a dining room chair." "That's your husband." "I know." "Does he know how to play the trumpet?" "Apparently." "Jeff's a lousy shot. He had to bribe the examiner at the FBI." Jeff Blue: That's a lie. I bribed the guy at the CIA. I blackmailed the guy at the FBI." "See mommy picking the big lock? Someday, when you're a big girl, she'll teach you how to pick locks. Of course, she may still be picking this one."

That seems to be a concise summary of what he did.

WTH: What makes you think I was talking to you? OneWhoIsFree asked specifically where to find the pfal tapes.(Or, I imagine, the DVDs or CDROMs or any comparable version.) WW: WTH: Yes, I mean Leonard's "Gifts of the Spirit" class, available from CTC of Texas.I'm not "promoting BG Leonard's stuff." OneWhoIsFree ASKED about the material. That's where the material is available. From the original class, not the knockoff. Comparing CTC's class with vpw's class is like comparing genuine Listerine with generic knockoffs- you'll end up wondering why you tolerated the bad taste in your mouth. Yes, Leonard's class calls it "GIFT" and not "manifestation"- just like you call it "manifestationS" when I Corinthian 12 refers to it in the singular. Personally, I'd prefer BOTH of you use the terminology I use. That having been said, once once unclenches over the usage of the WORD "gift" and actually pays attention to the CONCEPTS being taught, the WORD "gift" becomes a rather minor point. From here, it's just an excuse to dismiss a class that was so good, vpw copied it word-for-word and claimed HE taught it. Students of the CTC class-as some who've posted here said- learn a LOT more than the pfal class offered them when they were offered it. Despite disagreeing with the word "gift." When it comes to the TOTAL PICTURE of spiritual matters and educating others, some people understand less than they'd like to admit. WW: WTH: 1) Thanks for admitting where vpw STOLE the "snow on the pumps" from. He ripped off the man's class, AND his genuine spiritual experiences. 2) "Now" YOU know this. We discussed this years ago. I MYSELF posted years ago that he STOLE the "1942 promise", and posted this quote as documentation. 3) Yes, that IS where I would advise someone to get their "holy spirit" education- if they were planning on getting it from "vpw's" pfal class. Leonard never claimed any "snow on the gas pumps"- vpw added that in the 1970s. (According to Mrs W, that was when he first made this claim.) Leonard never claimed God promised him ALL answers on ALL subjects-just the ones he asked for on ONE subject. Did Leonard make this claim up the way vpw made his claim up? Well, Leonard didn't just "talk the walk"- Leonard "walked the talk." BG Leonard may not have been perfect, but he WAS "the man he knew himself to be", and walked worthy (not perfect, as if any of us expected him to walk PERFECT) of the calling wherewith he was called. Feel free to disprove me: either find a "snow on gas pumps" account (or its equivalent) among Leonard's writings, or find where Leonard was caught raping congregants or using them for filthy lucre's sake.