WordWolf

WD, Once again, I find myself discussing what the law SAYS on a thread with you. And you claimed it said one thing, and even a cursory glance says it says ANOTHER. Your definition of libel is missing a critical ingredient. One may call someone a murderer, molester, or rapist openly ALL THEY WANT and it is NOT libel- IF THE STATEMENT IS TRUE. That's why someone here posted at length about a convicted child molester who was in twi and freely called him "a child molester" and it's not libel- BECAUSE IT'S TRUE. http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/76...DE16E7/alpha/L/ "libel An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because libel is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. Libel is a form of defamation , as is slander (an untruthful statement that is spoken, but not published in writing or broadcast through the media)." Whether or not a statement is related to something with or without a criminal conviction is not relevant to whether or not it is libelous. It is relevant to HOW EASY IT IS TO PROVE IT IS NOT LIBELOUS, but a true statement is no less true for not having seen a court, and, according to the US courts, a TRUE statement is, by definition, NOT LIBEL.

All right, that's four sources. (There's MANY more, which we can also discuss, but 4 sources should be MORE than enough- especially if all 4 ARE IN AGREEMENT. Ok, what's the relevant part of each definition? ============== Here's what Law.com says... "http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?selected=1153&bold=|||| libel 1) n. to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others. Libel is the written or broadcast form of defamation, distinguished from slander, which is oral defamation. It is a tort (civil wrong) making the person or entity (like a newspaper, magazine or political organization) open to a lawsuit for damages by the person who can prove the statement about him/her was a lie. Publication need only be to one person, but it must be a statement which claims to be fact and is not clearly identified as an opinion. While it is sometimes said that the person making the libelous statement must have been intentional and malicious, actually it need only be obvious that the statement would do harm and is untrue. " Here's what it says about 'libel per se': http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?sel...4&bold=|||| "libel per se n. broadcast or written publication of a false statement about another which accuses him/her of a crime, immoral acts, inability to perform his/her profession, having a loathsome disease (like syphilis) or dishonesty in business. Such claims are considered so obviously harmful that malice need not be proved to obtain a judgment for "general damages," and not just specific losses." Here's what Legal Dictionary.com says about libel: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/libel "Libel 1) n. to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others. Libel is the written or broadcast form of defamation, distinguished from slander which is oral defamation. It is a tort (civil wrong) making the person or entity (like a newspaper, magazine or political organization) open to a lawsuit for damages by the person who can prove the statement about him/her was a lie. Publication need only be to one person, but it must be a statement which claims to be fact, and is not clearly identified as an opinion. While it is sometimes said that the person making the libelous statement must have been intentional and malicious, actually it need only be obvious that the statement would do harm and is untrue." Here's what Nolo.com says about libel: http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/76...E0D93B952DE16E7 "An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because libel is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. Libel is a form of defamation , as is slander (an untruthful statement that is spoken, but not published in writing or broadcast through the media)." Here's what FindLaw says about libel: http://dictionary.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/r...623b89f93d49694 "libel ['li-bel] Anglo-French, from Latin libellus, diminutive of liber book 1: "complaint § 1" (used esp. in admiralty and divorce cases) 2 a: a defamatory statement or representation esp. in the form of written or printed words specif : a false published statement that injures an individual's reputation (as in business) or otherwise exposes him or her to public contempt" ====== For those of you who missed it, for something to be libel, it has to be A) negative B) injurious to reputation C) FALSE Therefore, for someone to claim that vpw has been libelled, they must FIRST say "what has been said about vpw is a lie." To claim he has been libelled is to claim the so-called libellous statements are LIES, UNTRUE, and anyone attesting to their truth must be LIARS, since they say "I assert this to be true", and the claimant is saying "No, that is untrue. If you insist it's true, you're lying." Since twi is currently run by their lawyers, it is easy to consider this one. Would twi bring someone to court because there are MANY people claiming "I know vpw is a rapist, I know this PERSONALLY"? To do so, they would have to assert the statement was LIBEL. To do THAT, they would have to assert the statement was A LIE. Then both sides would have to go to court to attempt to prove their case. The side asserting vpw is a RAPIST would get to bring up women who were raped, and people who they spoke to immediately after they were raped, and people who knew vpw was having sex with women under his authority outside his marriage, and people who counselled women who were previously raped by vpw. The number of people who could come forth and show that there is a VERY consistent picture of vpw as a man who CLAIMED he was godly, and yet, when no one was looking, saw nothing wrong with himself having sex with women in his congregation, and using force or DRUGS when they were not consenting in ANY way to have sex with him, would be considerable. Psychological experts would be brought forth, showing how even the cases that were not QUITE so cut-and-dried as rape, actually were so, due to power inequities and misuse of authority. And on top of all that, what do you think the media would make of it? twi would lose the legal case, lose money and time, and open themselves up to national scrutiny for defending a founder who was a rapist, demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt in court. twi's lawyers aren't that stupid. They don't want to take on UNWINNABLE CASES.

Since some GSC'ers seem to fancy themselves authorities on the legal system, (and keep pretending the GSC=a court of law), it looked like a good idea to actually look at what libel IS. Is it libel to call vpw a rapist? We know he raped a number of women- SOME of whom have come forward. Is it libellous to call vpw a rapist for raping the women? How about if it's ALMOST CERTAIN we know he raped the women. How about if we're REASONABLY SURE, if we exceed REASONABLE DOUBT, that he raped women? How about if the PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE says we know he raped women? ============== I'm no legal expert, but I can look up information. Here's what Law.com says... "http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?selected=1153&bold=|||| libel 1) n. to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others. Libel is the written or broadcast form of defamation, distinguished from slander, which is oral defamation. It is a tort (civil wrong) making the person or entity (like a newspaper, magazine or political organization) open to a lawsuit for damages by the person who can prove the statement about him/her was a lie. Publication need only be to one person, but it must be a statement which claims to be fact and is not clearly identified as an opinion. While it is sometimes said that the person making the libelous statement must have been intentional and malicious, actually it need only be obvious that the statement would do harm and is untrue. " Here's what it says about 'libel per se': http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?sel...4&bold=|||| "libel per se n. broadcast or written publication of a false statement about another which accuses him/her of a crime, immoral acts, inability to perform his/her profession, having a loathsome disease (like syphilis) or dishonesty in business. Such claims are considered so obviously harmful that malice need not be proved to obtain a judgment for "general damages," and not just specific losses." Here's what Legal Dictionary.com says about libel: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/libel "Libel 1) n. to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others. Libel is the written or broadcast form of defamation, distinguished from slander which is oral defamation. It is a tort (civil wrong) making the person or entity (like a newspaper, magazine or political organization) open to a lawsuit for damages by the person who can prove the statement about him/her was a lie. Publication need only be to one person, but it must be a statement which claims to be fact, and is not clearly identified as an opinion. While it is sometimes said that the person making the libelous statement must have been intentional and malicious, actually it need only be obvious that the statement would do harm and is untrue." Here's what Nolo.com says about libel: http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/76...E0D93B952DE16E7 "An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because libel is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. Libel is a form of defamation , as is slander (an untruthful statement that is spoken, but not published in writing or broadcast through the media)." Here's what FindLaw says about libel: http://dictionary.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/r...623b89f93d49694 "libel ['li-bel] Anglo-French, from Latin libellus, diminutive of liber book 1: "complaint § 1" (used esp. in admiralty and divorce cases) 2 a: a defamatory statement or representation esp. in the form of written or printed words specif : a false published statement that injures an individual's reputation (as in business) or otherwise exposes him or her to public contempt"

No matter WHAT movie you post, George, I refuse to call you "Papa Smurf"!

Monk?

Got to be, and is. My favorite version of the song was the "impromptu" one in the movie "Anchorman."

WD, once again, you replied to someone's post, but missed actually addressing WHAT THEY SAID. You've been doing that A LOT the past few days, almost as if you're doing your best to not address WHAT PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY SAYING....

Ok THIS time, but we all share in posting, since we all would rather guess.... "My motto's always been; when it's right, it's right. Why wait until the middle of a cold, dark night?"

In the interest of moving this along, I'll cede the turn, since that's the closest I'm getting to a correct answer. The song is Willy deVille's "Storybook Love". IIRC, it was covered by Mark Knopfler (of Dire Straits) at the end of "the Princess Bride." The melody, BTW, is played a number of times in the background of the story- it almost serves as a theme song for Wesley and Buttercup. =========== Come my love I'll tell you a tale, Of a boy and girl and their love story. And how he loved her oh-so-much, and all the charms she did possess. Now this did happen once upon a time, When things were not so complex. And how he worshiped the ground she walked, And when he looked in her eyes, he became obsessed. My love is like a storybook story, But it's as real as the feelings I feel. My love is like a storybook story, But it's as real as the feelings I feel, It's as real as the feelings I feel. His love was stronger than the power so dark, A prince could have within his keeping. His spells to weave and steal her heart- Within her breast but only sleeping. My love is like a storybook story, But it's as real as the feelings I feel. My love is like a storybook story, But it's as real as the feelings I feel, It's as real as the feelings I feel. And he said: "Don't you know i love you oh-so-much, and lay my heart at the foot of your dress?" And she said: "Don't you know that storybook loves Always have a happy ending?" Then he swooped her up just like in the books And on his stallion they rode away. My love is like a storybook story, But it's as real as the feelings I feel. My love is like a storybook story, But it's as real as the feelings I feel, It's as real as the feelings I feel. Someone put this together... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uczkDCyFJsc

That's where it's from- can you name the title or the artist? (At least 2 singers have performed it.)

No. You've probably seen the movie that includes this in the soundtrack. I'll give it a few more hours and see if something happens.

"Come my love I'll tell you a tale, Of a boy and girl and their love story. And how he loved her oh-so-much, and all the charms she did posess. Now this did happen once upon a time When things were not so complex. How he worshipped the ground she walked, And when he looked in her eyes he became obsessed" "This love was stronger than the powers so dark A prince could have within his keeping. His spells to weave and steal a heart Within her breast but only sleeping"

That's it. "Thine Own Self." Got everything from both quotes, for both subplots. Personally, I liked the Command test subplot more.

Is this AA Milne?

The "time served" part may have triggered a memory-Judge Stone said that a lot in sentencing.

"Congratulations. You just destroyed the Enterprise." "I walked here. From the mountains."

"Congratulations. You just destroyed the Enterprise."

"Now this did happen once upon a time When things were not so complex. How he worshipped the ground she walked, And when he looked in her eyes he became obsessed" "This love was stronger than the powers so dark A prince could have within his keeping. His spells to weave and steal a heart Within her breast but only sleeping"

I'm on the right track, anyway....

Ok, let's see if anyone can name this one... "Now this did happen once upon a time When things were not so complex. How he worshipped the ground she walked, And when he looked in her eyes he became obsessed"

Ok, original series. The threat was vulnerable to ultraviolet light....... and I'm stuck on some of the other details....

That reminds me of that show with Donal Logue... "Grounded for Life".

Just FYI, I could have gotten it from the 3pm post, but I wasn't logged in until about 12 hours later and you'd already voided the clue...

Regardless of past behavior on other threads, I say: let him have this thread. Personally, I love the name.

Just about everything kids have taken an interest in- that wasn't an interest of the parents- has been identified as THE thing that will lead to their moral decline and downfall. Movies, television, comic books, video games, collectible card games, D&D, the list goes on and on. So far, each generation that was supposedly at risk of becoming depraved has managed anyway. "In times like these, it's important to remember that there have always been times like these."