WordWolf

Right. Joe Dawson was a Watcher, and had a bar, "Joe's." Richie Ryan always called Duncan MacLeod "Mac". Amanda had been a thief for centuries. Most of the other quotes referenced their ages, and included a few exchanges from some of the better-known episodes. The one about the good times and women was from "the Gathering", and was between Connor and Duncan (Lambert and Paul, of course, both acting in the series premiere.)

Nice one, John.

"What do you expect? Einstein? Freud? Buddha? Sorry Joe, I'm just a guy." "Sooner or later, everyone comes to Joe's." "You don't understand- I am the End of Time!" "You're history." "Sometimes in life you have to do more than just watch." "You won't let me change, you know that? You really expect me to steal." "I expect sharks to bite too. Don't take it personally." "Just because I don't like to fight, doesn't mean that I can't." "You ever had it bad for an older woman?" "Well, the situation hasn't come up recently." "Did you really kill all those people?" "Yes, is that what you to hear? Killing was all I knew, is that what you want to hear?" "It's enough." "No, it is not enough. I killed, but I didn't just kill fifty, I didn't just kill a hundred. I killed thousands. I killed ten thousands. And I was good at it. And it wasn't for vengeance. It wasn't for greed. It was because I liked it. Cassandra was nothing, her village was nothing. Do you know who I was? Death! Death. Death on horse! When mothers warned their children that the monster would get them, that monster was me. I was the nightmare that kept them awake at night. Is that was you want to hear? Than the answer... is yes. Oh, yes." "Mac, I'm alive." "As long as I can remember knowing you, you've had all the fun and most of the good women. "Lately." "Lately?" "That's what I said." "What are you talking about?" "Well, I seem to remember that girl in London. The red head. Healthy girl. " "Come on. That was nearly one hundred and sixty years ago. "That's what I said. Lately." ""Just how old are you? Are you a Christian, or do you paint yourself blue and bay at the moon?"

We're discussing "body vs bride" in Doctrinal right now....

I'm fine with explaining twi doctrine, but can we do it in a Doctrinal thread, or a thread in ATW specifically about that, or maybe a GS 101 thread, and let this thread be about esoteric phrases?

It's patently ridiculous to take standards that include legal status, and to try to apply them to situations centuries before, when the legal standards were markedly different. For example, travelers in 2008 must carry valid passports if they travel between countries in order to be expected to be allowed to enter that country. In Jesus' time, and in Paul's time, travelers did not carry valid passports. Was that wrong of them? Did they break the law by being expected to travel? Paul travelled a LOT and never had a passport stamped. No-and most people with any sense can see that there were NO SUCH THING as valid passports back then, so expecting them to carry them of be "wrong" is patently silly. However, it's no less silly than saying "Paul didn't have an independent auditor examine the ledgers annually, so he was a lawbreaker"- just because that's honest business practice NOW although it wasn't in effect THEN. Did they break the laws of the land? NO. Jesus paid his taxes. Paul was in trouble for angering RELIGIOUS AUTHORITIES, not any LEGAL AUTHORITY. Peter gave the standard: I Peter 2:13-14. "13Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; 14Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well." This was written during a time of CORRUPT leaders like NERO. =========== So, John's standards of legal expectations are RIDICULOUS to use, line by line, for Jesus or Paul. "Files and records held on members?" John would be silly to have brought it up. However, John never intended it to be used on people in other countries 2000 years ago. The silliness was introduced when someone ELSE brought it up, and pretended there was merit in doing so. Let's try to do something intelligent with this silly interruption, however. This is a MODERN standard. The claim was SUPPOSED to be that genuine movements of God would fail this standard. Therefore, an intelligent question would be: Would a MODERN movement from God PASS John's posted standard, or would a MODERN movement from God FAIL John's posted standard? Let's take a look. I take it as a given that any GENUINE movement FROM GOD ALMIGHTY would not contradict the standards God has previously given. That is, any movement FROM GOD ALMIGHTY would, perforce, conform to the letter and intent of Holy Scripture. (I also take it as a given that the Bible is that selfsame "Holy Scripture". Discussions that disagree on this will be unable to get far, as there would then be no STANDARD to compare, so everything would be subjective and opinion, which vary widely.) What's some of the standards God would have in effect? 1) The laws of the land would be followed. 2) The people would be loved like Jesus loved his disciples. (John 13:34-35, John 15:12, 15, Romans 12:10, Galatians 5:13, Ephesians 4:12, I Thessalonians 4:9...) ========================= So, what would John's "TIPS" (gee-he never said they were a "standard"-that was another poster) say about a MODERN movement of God? Would a MODERN movement of God do this? They WOULD have specific standards for policies and procedures that will be applied, and how they will be applied. They would NOT hide "unpleasant" news-scandals or internal problems- from the members or the public. (This does not require them to put articles on them on the national news-but the members would all have free access to the basics, and outsiders could easily report on them if they wished.) Finances would be OPEN and MONITORED. Many modern churches have this already. Expenses people would have to pay would be kept reasonable-with the goal that more people can participate in things when they are cheaper, which benefits more people. God prefers to benefit more people rather than less people (all other things being equal- benefitting 200 loyal Christians is better than benefitting 10 loyal Christians, but benefitting 200 loyal Christians is better than benefitting 300 people who glory in sins and the propagation of sin.) So, the "Be Transparent" Tips would, indeed, apply and God's movements would pass. This is almost a corollary to the previous points. God's people will be fair and evenhanded, having fair rules, accessible to all, which would be the one standard. Corruption and problems would be dealt with swiftly, fairly, and openly, so the laity could see what happened and how it was addressed. In short, again, God's GENUINE movements would adhere to this. ACCOUNTABILITY, FREE WILL, and FREEDOM OF IDEAS matter to God. Nobody would be FORCED to say-or NOT say-specific things. If the people need to hear about how to operate independently, THAT is what they will hear, not "how to conform to the leader's whims." What about ACCOUNTABILITY? Would there really be meetings on practices? The Book of Acts shows meetings something like the contemporary versions. A REAL movement of God has REAL leaders for God in charge- so there is little concern that a POLICY MEETING would end with LESS effective policy. Rather, the strengths of ALL of God's leaders would be brought into play, which strengthens the movement from God. So, again, John's "tips" would indeed apply to a GENUINE movement from God in the MODERN world. Do I really need to address this one again? John's "tips", again, DO apply. This can be summarized as "love your neighbor as yourself", if "neighbor" includes people like "those who have nothing to do with you, who have no reason to presume a benefit or a payback for helping them, who are then helped." (Review Jesus' own example of the "Good Samaritan" if this is unclear to you.) Plenty of modern churches, BTW, DO perform work for total strangers- homeless, hungry, destitute- and expect nothing back in return. (Ever find a total stranger, feed them, and then leave without taking any credit whatsoever for having done so? I have-when working with a local church-and I could easily have chided them for glaring errors in their doctrines. However, they understood "love your neighbor as yourself" better than I ever saw in twi.) REAL movements of God should be free of even needing to ADDRESS such considerations. However, they would take responsibility for harm done by their group, in their name, and act decisively to fix any problems thus inflicted. It's almost ridiculous to have to say that's a simple application of "love one another." That's ALL the "TIPS" John gave. How about that- item by item, GENUINE MODERN MOVEMENTS OF GOD would indeed have little trouble following these "TIPS", and if they were graded with this as the standard, they'd get very high marks-or, likely, perfect marks. The idea that these "TIPS" would APPEAR to discredit GENUINE movements of God is an interesting idea, but-as we have just seen- it's an idea that is easy to disprove. (Edited to delete accidentally duplicated text.)

[i think there's a hidden agenda in Mike's posts-which is to obfuscate the issues and try to invalidate them- whether it be through loaded language like "schemes", or through comparing unlike things and saying a standard fails when it can't be used for things it was never designed for. (Mathematical proofs would "fail" to give a reasonable standard for keeping food fresh, and it would be similarly unfair to apply one to the other.} The idea that "no one can ever claim to have any kind of true authority" is introduced here by Mike- who, conveniently, never defines nor explains what he means by "true authority" so he can later claim his issue were never addressed. We all agree there is TRUTH and AUTHORITY. What "ABSOLUTE" truth is, and "TRUE" authority is, are matters of DOCTRINE and deserve their own threads in Doctrinal. "What is truth?"- Pontius Pilate.] [This claim might carry a lot more weight if it wasn't coming from someone with his OWN "authoritative take" on truth-rare or otherwise. And shoving contradictions under the rug is just one of his most common tactics. (I wouldn't have brought that up-but YOU WERE THE ONE WHO WAS MAKING THE COMPARISON. Between yourself and Juedes, I think you are so far apart in the objectives you choose that I did not think the comparison was well-taken.)] [You're asserting this without making a case for it. Bald claims should be supported if you expect anyone to take them seriously. We had more than our fill of bald, unsupported claims in twi-we don't need any more from you or anyone else.]

Husband and wife is one flesh, one flesh is one body. Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Matthew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Matthew 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Mark 10:8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 1 Corinthians 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. Ephesians 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. =============== Then again, it's possible the LITERAL answer is far beyond various FIGURES used to ASSIST (not REPLACE) our understanding.

I think this is a possibility. I think the answers I've heard so far- the "either/or" answers, don't explain it all, and am looking for a more comprehensive answer.

"What do you expect? Einstein? Freud? Buddha? Sorry Joe, I'm just a guy." "Sooner or later, everyone comes to Joe's." "You don't understand- I am the End of Time!" "You're history." "Sometimes in life you have to do more than just watch." "You won't let me change, you know that? You really expect me to steal." "I expect sharks to bite too. Don't take it personally." "Just because I don't like to fight, doesn't mean that I can't." "You ever had it bad for an older woman?" "Well, the situation hasn't come up recently." "Did you really kill all those people?" "Yes, is that what you to hear? Killing was all I knew, is that what you want to hear?" "It's enough." "No, it is not enough. I killed, but I didn't just kill fifty, I didn't just kill a hundred. I killed thousands. I killed ten thousands. And I was good at it. And it wasn't for vengeance. It wasn't for greed. It was because I liked it. Cassandra was nothing, her village was nothing. Do you know who I was? Death! Death. Death on horse! When mothers warned their children that the monster would get them, that monster was me. I was the nightmare that kept them awake at night. Is that was you want to hear? Than the answer... is yes. Oh, yes." "Mac, I'm alive."

"What was his name?" "What?" "If you were really there, you should be able to tell us the name of the man outside the walls." "What kind of question is that?" "Describe him to us. What was he wearing? How tall was he? What color were his eyes?" "Kahless" had just told a story about a warrior he'd met, who refused to seek shelter from a storm. Instead, he would stand outside, and "make the wind respect me." The next day, they found him dead. "The wind does not respect a fool." He tried to use this story to intimidate Gortok, but Gortok asked for details- what was his name? What did he look like? But the clone only knew the details of the LEGEND, what he was PROGRAMMED with. "TORVA LUK DO SHELL!" Worf-and others- said this while enduring hardship and seeking a vision of Kahless. "He had no explanation at all?" "Not a word. He just got dressed and then reported for duty as if nothing had happened." Worf had an incident in his quarters as he sought a vision, but never explained to Riker what was going on. "I hope you find what you're looking for, Mister Worf. Because the next time you set foot on this ship I expect you to carry out your duties like a Starfleet officer." Picard grants Worf a leave of absence, and demands he finish his quest. "Have we heard from Worf?" "No. All communication with Boreth has been cut off since yesterday." Boreth was where Worf was seeking his vision-where they look for Kahless' return. "What is wrong? Is there only anger and bloodlust in your souls? Is that all that is left in the Klingon heart? We do not fight merely to spill blood, but to enrich the spirit." "Kahless" began to fight with Worf, but stopped the fight, and began a fine Klingon oratory about the meaning of the Klingon heart. Your turn!

Correct! The episode name is "Rightful Heir." Worf actually was SEEKING a vision of Kahless, and not finding one-eventually finding "Kahless".

Good-I thought it might have been too easy. Then again, which lines stick with each of us can vary widely. "What was his name?" "What?" "If you were really there, you should be able to tell us the name of the man outside the walls." "What kind of question is that?" "Describe him to us. What was he wearing? How tall was he? What color were his eyes?" "TORVA LUK DO SHELL!" "He had no explanation at all?" "Not a word. He just got dressed and then reported for duty as if nothing had happened." "I hope you find what you're looking for, Mister Worf. Because the next time you set foot on this ship I expect you to carry out your duties like a Starfleet officer." "Have we heard from Worf?" "No. All communication with Boreth has been cut off since yesterday." "What is wrong? Is there only anger and bloodlust in your souls? Is that all that is left in the Klingon heart? We do not fight merely to spill blood, but to enrich the spirit."

"What do you expect? Einstein? Freud? Buddha? Sorry Joe, I'm just a guy." "Sooner or later, everyone comes to Joe's." "You don't understand- I am the End of Time!" "You're history." "Sometimes in life you have to do more than just watch." "You won't let me change, you know that? You really expect me to steal." "I expect sharks to bite too. Don't take it personally." "Just because I don't like to fight, doesn't mean that I can't."

"What do you expect? Einstein? Freud? Buddha? Sorry Joe, I'm just a guy." "Sooner or later, everyone comes to Joe's." "You don't understand- I am the End of Time!" "You're history."

"What was his name?" "What?" "If you were really there, you should be able to tell us the name of the man outside the walls." "What kind of question is that?" "Describe him to us. What was he wearing? How tall was he? What color were his eyes?" "TORVA LUK DO SHELL!" "He had no explanation at all?" "Not a word. He just got dressed and then reported for duty as if nothing had happened."

"What do you expect? Einstein? Freud? Buddha? Sorry Joe, I'm just a guy."

"What was his name?" "What?" "If you were really there, you should be able to tell us the name of the man outside the walls."

BTW, there's something strange about "Loud as a Whisper" which I forgot to mention. If you see the episode, the problem is Riva's chorus is killed. If you read the script, the device he uses to broadcast to them is damaged in an unspecified way. That would have been too easily correctible. (If for no other reason but that anyone who relies so completely on an external device will carry a spare.)

I thought this made it almost obvious it was Doctor Who.

The Way Magazine/ September-October 1986 "The Joy Of Serving" Victor Paul Wierwille May 12, 1985 "I think that what has made The Way Ministry so wonderful all over the world, generally speaking, is that we have a lot of the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation among our people and that we are serving our people. So every Twig coordinator, Twig Area or Country coordinator, anybody that blesses people, even if you are not a Twig coordinator, you ought to master this so that you can help somebody in the shop or factory; or wherever you are, so that you have got answers for them. Outside of this ministry I've seen very few answers. If we knew where there were more, we'd go get them! That's right."

Ok, I'm certain this was Bashir, talking about his teddy bear. We even saw the teddy bear in a later episode. Ok. I think this was when Bashir was travelling-probably with O'Brien because whenever I can't name the additional character for sure, it seems to be Miles- through the Gamma Quadrant, and found a planet with an illness that the Dominion inflicted on them. Bashir was unable to completely end the illness- but he WAS able to find a way to make sure their children wouldn't inherit it (the disease seemed to alter their genes from before birth).

It is indeed!

That's the episode- "Loud as a Whisper"- and that's the ambassador. Feel free to add a few details if you want-you covered enough for the answer. (A little more information wouldn't hurt, however.)

They may have gotten older, but I question whether the twi gun mavens ever "came of age." I forget who here told the story of someone blowing a hole in a ceiling because people were handing a LOADED SHOTGUN around, and someone played with the trigger. Penn Gillette said that nearly all gun accidents could be avoided if a few simple rules were followed universally: 1) Always treat all guns as loaded unless you have emptied it yourself. 2) Never point a gun at anything unless you intend to destroy it. 3) Keep your finger off the trigger until you have the target in your sites. 4) Be aware of your backstops-what is around your target, mindful of ricochets.