WordWolf

He was taught-by vpw- that whatever the person in charge of twi decided, that was "of God" and to declare it, and people had to conform. He was also taught that looking back and trying to improve things after something didn't work was "wrong"- he was supposed to "keep moving forward" with "no regrets".

If you view it more as someone returning to an abusive relationship, does it seem to make a little more sense?

Everything from "Do you know" was from me discussing 'the Leaven Principle' and 'the leaven of twi.' (I can't find the origin of the first 2 sentences.) and

"Sounds like Wolf 359 all over again." "Home, I want to go home!" "And you will, as soon as this is over I promise I will take you back to Deep Space 9." "No, not the station." "Why are you helping us?" "Because no Changeling has ever harmed another." "He was literally speechless -- a rare event." "I remember wanting to invent charges of treason against him just so I didn't have to hear his voice again." "You would've done it, too, if I hadn't held you back. You had quite a vicious streak in those days." "I learned from the best." "No, no. You had a gift. I never met anyone else who relished a good interrogation as much as you did. Do you remember getting that confession out of Doctor Parmak?" "I never even touched him." "That was the beauty of it. You just sat there for -- what, three hours?" "Four." "And after four hours of watching you stare at him... he confessed." "I was good, wasn't I?" "You were brilliant. Afterwards, he just kept saying...'His eyes... his eyes...' "

http://www.recovery-man.com/abusive/abusive_signs.htm You may be in an abusive relationship if he or she: = Is jealous or possessive toward you. (Jealousy is the primary symptom of abusive relationships; it is also a core component of Sexual Addictions and Love Addiction.) = Tries to control you by being very bossy or demanding. = Tries to isolate you by demanding you cut off social contacts and friendships. = Is violent and / or loses his or her temper quickly. = Pressures you sexually, demands sexual activities you are not comfortable with. = Abuses drugs or alcohol. = Claims you are responsible for his or her emotional state. (This is a core diagnostic criteria for Codependency.) = Blames you when he or she mistreats you. = Has a history of bad relationships. = Your family and friends have warned you about the person or told you that they are concerned for your physical or emotional well being. = You frequently worry about how he or she will react to things you say or do. = Makes "jokes" that shame, humiliate, demean or embarrass you, weather privately or around family and friends. = Your partner grew up witnessing an abusive parental relationship, and/or was abused as a child. = Your partner "rages" when they feel hurt, shame, fear or loss of control. = Both parties in abusive relationships may develop or progress in drug or alcohol dependence in a (dysfunctional) attempt to cope with the pain. = You leave and then return to your partner repeatedly, against the advice of your friends, family and loved ones. = You have trouble ending the relationship, even though you know inside it's the right thing to do. Does the person you love... • constantly keep track of your time? • act jealous and possessive? • accuse you of being unfaithful or flirting? • discourage your relationships with friends and family? • prevent or discourage you from working, interacting with friends or attending school? • constantly criticize or belittle you? • control all finances and force you to account for what you spend? (Reasonable cooperative budgeting excepted.) • humiliate you in front of others? (Including "jokes" at your expense.) • destroy or take your personal property or sentimental items? • have affairs? • threaten to hurt you, your children or pets? Threaten to use a weapon? • push, hit, slap, punch, kick, or bite you or your children? • force you to have sex against your will, or demand sexual acts you are uncomfortable with? ================== http://www.stanford.edu/group/svab/relationships.shtml What is Relationship Abuse? Relationship Abuse is a pattern of abusive and coercive behaviors used to maintain power and control over a former or current intimate partner. An abusive relationship means more than being hit by the person who claims to love or care about you. Abuse can be emotional, psychological, financial, sexual or physical and can include threats, isolation, and intimidation. Abuse tends to escalate over time. When someone uses abuse and violence against a partner, it is always part of a larger pattern to try to control her/him. It is not your fault If you are being abused by your partner, you may feel confused, afraid, angry and/or trapped. All of these emotions are normal responses to abuse. You may also blame yourself for what is happening. But no matter what others might say, you are never responsible for your partner's abusive actions. Dating abuse is not caused by alcohol or drugs, stress, anger management, or provocation. It is always a choice to be abusive. ============ * Understanding relationship abuse can help you know if you or someone you know is a victim of relationship abuse - male or female. Relationship abuse is a pattern of abusive and coercive behaviors used to maintain power and control over a former or current intimate partner. An abusive relationship means more than being hit by the person who claims to love or care about you. Many survivors find that emotional abuse is difficult to name or even talk about. They often wonder if it is serious because it isn't visible, like bruises or broken bones. Emotionally abused survivors state that one of the biggest problems they face is that others seldom take it seriously. Signs of abuse can be difficult to recognize, especially from within a relationship. Friends, family members, and colleagues may often be the first to notice signs of being in a controlling and abusive relationship. Abusive relationships rarely start with physical violence and incorporate numerous methods of one person exerting power and control over another. This diagram exhibits some of the common ways that abusers control their victims and why abuse can be so much more than physical or sexual violence. "Why is my friend still in an unhealthy relationship? Why don't they leave?" The reality is that there are many barriers to finding safety from an abusive relationship. Leaving can sometimes be dangerous and there are many factors that an abusive partner can use to keep the victim from leaving the relationship. Understanding these issues can better assist someone to help a victim out of an abusive relationship.

That's what I was thinking. I think it's MORE dysfunctional. People who enjoy being tied up and whipped know they have options on who ties them up and whips them. They can find someone else to handle that if the current person isn't working out. And the thing they're always mentioning when they speak on the subject is that it involves TRUST and consent. twi is NOT conducive to cultivating TRUST. ===================== One comedienne had trouble with a shower that went from HOT water to COLD water without warning while the controls weren't touched. She kept trying to adjust the water to stop that, and she said she eventually began to feel like she'd been through an abusive relationship- "I can control you, you're hurting me, I can control you, you're hurting me..." ==============

I think people familiar with the characteristics of ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS would find the twi experience to be startlingly familiar.

If he can't handle a little bloody nose, he's in the wrong line of work. God rarely calls the cowardly. To post here doesn't even expose him to physical danger-just people disagreeing with him- most of it quite civilly. Meanwhile, there's Christians in other countries who are beaten with sticks, who are killed, and don't recant their faith. http://www.persecution.com/ http://www.persecution.org/suffering/index.php http://www.persecution.net/ Based on the fact that there's ANY recidivism to twi or its framework- despite it being exposed to have been based on a sham, lies and deception- I'd say some people are responding to "conditioning" by playing along.

IMHO, that's PART of it. When I finished high school, the saludatorian was seen as an extreme geek, with no room in his life for anything but classes. A little over a year later, I heard from someone who'd seen him in college, in his first year. He had turned into a party animal, who partied more in a week than I did all semester, at the time. Having left his hermetic seal of "nothing but studying", he burned out quickly and all he DID was party. If I were to hazard a guess, this is similar. Someone's been kept under the thumb of a situation where they haven't been allowed to think for themself- and then, suddenly, ALL their decisions were their own. The result? They don't have the maturity-or the PRACTICE- of making sound decisions, so they just turned into a party animal. Perhaps I am wrong, and this is temporary. After all, I know very little about this person, about their situation. Somewhere between "thou shalt not even use the name "Balzac" in discussing philosophy" and "do whatever thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" is a lot of room, including space for an expletive or two. Perhaps it is improper to use them. Perhaps this is not a formal setting and it doesn't matter if they're used a little.

One of those impressions is correct.

Or, you know, there might be something else memorable about the battle at Wolf 359 other than the Borg were involved.... Or, you know...oh, heck, yes it is. Yet.

"Sounds like Wolf 359 all over again." "Home, I want to go home!" "And you will, as soon as this is over I promise I will take you back to Deep Space 9." "No, not the station."

I don't remember the episode's name. However, I remember the episode pretty well. Julian Bashir-like Khan Singh ("KHANNN!!!!"), was genetically-enhanced. Sometimes those "enhancements" cause more genetic harm than good. There's a group of genetically-altered patients who aren't able to function as regular members of society. Julian had made friends with them. They visited him on DS9 later. They dressed one of them in an Admiral's uniform, faked whatever ID they use, and he just gave orders. Whenever anyone questioned him-as would be expected- he responded, angrily, "That's a stupid question!" and they'd stop annoying the "Admiral." The episode, IIRC, had Julian helping one of them, the autistic one, try to correct her most severe problems so she could assimilate into society the way Julian did.

That first quote definitely rings a bell, but I'm on the run for the next few days, so forgive me if I don't crack in to this round. I wouldn't have time to post a movie in response.

CORRECT! "Q-less." Here's how the quotes went.... "By the time they docked, power levels were near zero." "There's not even enough juice left in the ship to release the servos." "Life support's down and oxygen levels have dropped dangerously low." "We'll have to burn through." The Ganges returned from the Gamma Quadrant, unaware of what drained their energy. "Will I live?" "You're fine. In fact, you're in remarkable shape." "Thank you, Doctor. I try." "I'd say you've managed quite well for someone who's been out of contact with civilization for over two years." Vash was "missing" for 2 years, in the Gamma Quadrant and elsewhere. "You're sure this place is safe?" "The Assay office is the most secure area on the station." There's maybe 2 episodes we saw the Assay office. This was the first. "Computer, begin inventory for cubicle nineteen. One statue, stone, thirty-odd centimeters tall, approximately twenty kilograms... Assorted gems... Gold necklace... One dagger, bronze and gold, about twenty-five centimeters. Beautiful. I've never seen anything quite like it. Some kind of Promethean Quartz?" That's what I thought at first, but its molecular density and refraction index are much higher." That's what was draining the power in the Ganges. "I should have listened to him when he warned me about you..." "You're hurt, so you lash out. I understand. But be of good cheer. I bring wonderful news. I'm back. I can see now it was cruel of me to leave you." "That's very touching. But you didn't leave me, I left you." "You left me, I left you... Details, mere details. The important thing is we're back together again... a team... joined at the hip..." "Not a chance." "Come now, you know you missed me." "Don't flatter yourself." Vash and Q. Picard had warned her about Q. "I figure she must be a special woman... to be friends with the Captain and all." "Somehow she doesn't seem to be his type." "The Captain likes a good challenge, sir." Sisko and O'Brien discussing Vash and Picard. "Chief, are you reading any graviton flux around the transfer systems?" "I AM detecting a low level graviton disturbance... How did you know? "That's exactly what happened when we lost power on the Ganges." Now the station's power was draining.... I'll be out of reach for a few days. Carry on, everyone!

Is that really how you see your fellow Christians, for whom Christ died? As praying to an "oil-can"? How about at least considering them mistaken in doctrine but attempting to serve God and live love? Is it that important to be "one who knows" that one can't even consider the position of "one who cares"? Jesus himself said his disciples would be recognized by their LOVE, not their DOCTRINE.

"By the time they docked, power levels were near zero." "There's not even enough juice left in the ship to release the servos." "Life support's down and oxygen levels have dropped dangerously low." "We'll have to burn through." "Will I live?" "You're fine. In fact, you're in remarkable shape." "Thank you, Doctor. I try." "I'd say you've managed quite well for someone who's been out of contact with civilization for over two years." "You're sure this place is safe?" "The Assay office is the most secure area on the station." "Computer, begin inventory for cubicle nineteen. One statue, stone, thirty-odd centimeters tall, approximately twenty kilograms... Assorted gems... Gold necklace... One dagger, bronze and gold, about twenty-five centimeters. Beautiful. I've never seen anything quite like it. Some kind of Promethean Quartz?" That's what I thought at first, but its molecular density and refraction index are much higher." "I should have listened to him when he warned me about you..." "You're hurt, so you lash out. I understand. But be of good cheer. I bring wonderful news. I'm back. I can see now it was cruel of me to leave you." "That's very touching. But you didn't leave me, I left you." "You left me, I left you... Details, mere details. The important thing is we're back together again... a team... joined at the hip..." "Not a chance." "Come now, you know you missed me." "Don't flatter yourself." "I figure she must be a special woman... to be friends with the Captain and all." "Somehow she doesn't seem to be his type." "The Captain likes a good challenge, sir." "Chief, are you reading any graviton flux around the transfer systems?" "I AM detecting a low level graviton disturbance... How did you know? "That's exactly what happened when we lost power on the Ganges."

*slaps forehead* You're right. But this episode is not named after either station.

Technically, it's on the station Empok Nor, aka Deep Space 9, but that's not the name of this episode.

"By the time they docked, power levels were near zero." "There's not even enough juice left in the ship to release the servos." "Life support's down and oxygen levels have dropped dangerously low." "We'll have to burn through." "Will I live?" "You're fine. In fact, you're in remarkable shape." "Thank you, Doctor. I try." "I'd say you've managed quite well for someone who's been out of contact with civilization for over two years." "You're sure this place is safe?" "The Assay office is the most secure area on the station." "I should have listened to him when he warned me about you..." "You're hurt, so you lash out. I understand. But be of good cheer. I bring wonderful news. I'm back. I can see now it was cruel of me to leave you." "That's very touching. But you didn't leave me, I left you." "You left me, I left you... Details, mere details. The important thing is we're back together again... a team... joined at the hip..." "Not a chance." "Come now, you know you missed me." "Don't flatter yourself."

You're tracking correctly so far...

"By the time they docked, power levels were near zero." "There's not even enough juice left in the ship to release the servos." "Life support's down and oxygen levels have dropped dangerously low." "We'll have to burn through." "Will I live?" "You're fine. In fact, you're in remarkable shape." "Thank you, Doctor. I try." "I'd say you've managed quite well for someone who's been out of contact with civilization for over two years."

"Monsters Ball"?

"Will I live?" "You're fine. In fact, you're in remarkable shape." "Thank you, Doctor. I try." "I'd say you've managed quite well for someone who's been out of contact with civilization for over two years."