WordWolf

In other words, twi is still losing net membership every year, and is getting a bit desperate to try to stop that. How small does twi have to be before the vultures at the top have to worry about working real jobs?

One thing I learned here at the GSC is to NOT trust any websites that use WEB-BEACONS.

================================================= In case you missed my point, I can only be SO glad to benefit from something, when I know my benefit was purchased by the blood of the innocent. Proverbs 10:22 The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it. The blessing of twi, it made vpw rich, and gave us some good teachings, and it added much sorrow to some of our brothers and sisters, for whom Christ died.

There's differences of opinions as to how many of those are "truths" and how many were just presented convincingly. Me, I don't disagree with any of those, but I can see the points of those who do. Furthermore, to limit the question like this leaves out FAR more important questions. Questions like: -How do you feel knowing you learned all your "truths" from a man who claimed to have a connection with God unique in all of 2000 years, and claimed the "truths" taught all stem from that connection, only to find out that he took ALL of it from other Christians who came before him, and pretended he didn't? -How do you feel about a man who put forth that he "was a man of God", meaning that, among other things, he made a reasonable attempt at living in a manner not displeasing God, only to find that he designed everything so that he could quietly feed his vices? Greed for money, for things, addictions to alcohol and tobacco, lusts for women (who were drugged, raped and/or molested) other than his wife? -How do you feel that he redefined all sorts of Godly principles and ideas so that they applied to him (apostle, man of God) and redefined other things (sin is "broken fellowship") and added other concepts ("the lockbox", "all the women in the kingdom belonged to the king") all so he could appear holy while sinning all he wanted? -How do you feel that he arranged the physical details so as to make it easier for him to sin- arranging private places with beds so he had places to sin, using the corps autobiographies to select women whom he could victimize, maintaining a circle of people to make sure victims remained silent? -How do you feel that he treated Christians- people for whom Christ died- as DISPOSABLE? Besides using women like merchandise, he also dealt with people who were badly injured or raped (not always, but some of the time) by putting them on a Greyhound bus and sending them on a multi-day trip while they were barely functional? -How do you feel that there are people who KNOW all these things, who WITNESSED some of these things, who have TESTIFIED to these things, while other people do whatever they can to SILENCE them, to call women who were victims LIARS and blame them for being raped, and do whatever they can to have their testimony buried? Finally, -How do you think God Almighty feels about all this?

Now that's shameless. He redefined a NUMBER. How's THAT for avoiding reality?

I agree. Please note it was in the book "the Way:Living in Love" (pg-77 to start with), so it was in use around 1970.

Some of the subjects are the same. Some of the subjects are not. We do still get people, from time to time, who are either leaving now, or who left before and are now trying to put the pieces together. We also, however, are quite poopular with current twi'ers coming here and reading and learning what twi won't tell them- and not logging in, they're guests. (Similarly, CES/STFI people do that, especially when there's current events for their group.) The GSC is a clearinghouse of information. twi refuses to inform and discuss with their members, so they come here as the only current alternative that actually INFORMS. We also get new arrivals who have not yet been members, but who have been approached by twi'ers, and want information. They come here for similar reasons. So, current twi'ers come here, and sometimes they leave twi. Ex-twi come here and find it easier to move on with their lives once they understand things. And twi finds it even harder to recruit new people who can come here and learn all about them so easily, which means the group's numbers continue to shrink from year to year. Any ONE of those reasons is enough to come back here, IMHO.

The supposed incident on the train.... Orange Book, pg-29-31. ========= Whenever I read this record from Mark 3, it reminds me of the times I was practicing the principles of the greatness of God's Word in other countries of the world. On one occasion when I was teaching in Jubbulpore, India, a lady who had worked in a mission service for thirty years was delivered by God's power of a number of sicknesses which appeared incurable. This deliverance caused such a stir in the city of Jubbulpore the morning after the miracle occurred, that when my family and I were ready to board the train and leave Jubbulpore, hundreds of people gathered at the railroad depot. This crowd, which was composed mainly of Hindus, wanted me to lay my hands on them individually because they thought that I must have some special powers in my hands since I had laid my hands on the woman the previous day. They felt that if I just laid my hands on them, they too would be delivered. Just before the train on which we were traveling moved out of the depot, a high-caste Hindu, whose paralyzed arm was hanging limp at his side, ran up to our railroad compartment. He said to me, "Will you pray for my arm?" However, he immediately added, "But I do not believe in your Jesus." What would you have done? I asked him if he believed God would deliver him. He said, "I believe that God will heal me if you pray for me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." So again I asked him, "Do you believe God will set you free?" And he said, "I believe God will heal me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." I laid my hands on him, and I prayed that God would set him free in the name of Jesus Christ. When I finished I said to him, "Now lift your arm." He began to put it up, and suddenly he thrust up both of his arms. He leaped and shouted with tears streaming down his face. Once he had lifted his arm a little, he realized the miracle. He was totally set free. About then the train began moving, and I said, "Praise God; thank God that you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ." At the next stop, a man came to our compartment in the train, saying that he was representing his master who wanted to come and meet the man of God. He said his master was so-and-so, a member of Parliament in New Delhi, who was also riding on the train. The member of Parliament then came to our compartment to tell Mrs Wierwille and me that what he had seen in Jubbulpore was the most tremendous Christian event that he had ever witnessed- that a man of God would bless all God's people irrespective of whether they were Christian or Hindu. He offered us the keys to his city and said that any time we wanted to minister in India, the doors of India and the Far East would be open to us to teach the accuracy and the greatness of God's Word. " ================================= [Here's my thoughts on the account...] Orange Book, pg-29-31. ========= "Whenever I read this record from Mark 3, it reminds me of the times I was practicing the principles of the greatness of God's Word in other countries of the world. On one occasion when I was teaching in Jubbulpore, India, a lady who had worked in a mission service for thirty years was delivered by God's power of a number of sicknesses which appeared incurable. This deliverance caused such a stir in the city of Jubbulpore the morning after the miracle occurred, that when my family and I were ready to board the train and leave Jubbulpore, hundreds of people gathered at the railroad depot. This crowd, which was composed mainly of Hindus, wanted me to lay my hands on them individually because they thought that I must have some special powers in my hands since I had laid my hands on the woman the previous day." [so, we have vpw himself praying for the woman, and she was delivered. Within 24 hours, there was a crowd looking for healing. And they were non-believers, Hindus, who all just happened to hear about this, and believed it such that they showed up in a crowd. Could have happened. Presuming he prayed and she was delivered.] "They felt that if I just laid my hands on them, they too would be delivered." [i'm unsure of Hindu beliefs in India enough to know if this is typical.] "Just before the train on which we were traveling moved out of the depot, a high-caste Hindu, whose paralyzed arm was hanging limp at his side, ran up to our railroad compartment. He said to me, "Will you pray for my arm?" However, he immediately added, "But I do not believe in your Jesus." " [supposing this is true, there was a crowd, and the majority of the people would have been low-caste. The high-caste guy was willing to shove his way through a crowd of low-caste people, and thus being in physical contact with them, to shove through them and get to the front of the group, on the chance that this guy could help him. Forgive me, I can't picture this guy having the strength to shove through-unless he could use both arms.] "What would you have done? I asked him if he believed God would deliver him. He said, "I believe that God will heal me if you pray for me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." So again I asked him, "Do you believe God will set you free?" And he said, "I believe God will heal me, but I do not believe in your Jesus." I laid my hands on him, and I prayed that God would set him free in the name of Jesus Christ. When I finished I said to him, "Now lift your arm." He began to put it up, and suddenly he thrust up both of his arms. He leaped and shouted with tears streaming down his face. Once he had lifted his arm a little, he realized the miracle. He was totally set free. About then the train began moving, and I said, "Praise God; thank God that you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ." " [so, God was fine with this healing. And it was instant. And vpw was preaching from the back of the train. And allowed to stand there-WITH A CROWD SURROUNDING THE BACK OF THE TRAIN- while the train prepared to move. And he was allowed to be in physical contact with someone on the ground as the train is moving forward. I just don't think the trains in India are run that badly. It's too cinematic. The only thing we're missing is the train whistle and sunlight breaking out from the clouds.] "At the next stop, a man came to our compartment in the train, saying that he was representing his master who wanted to come and meet the man of God. He said his master was so-and-so, a member of Parliament in New Delhi, who was also riding on the train. The member of Parliament then came to our compartment to tell Mrs Wierwille and me that what he had seen in Jubbulpore was the most tremendous Christian event that he had ever witnessed- that a man of God would bless all God's people irrespective of whether they were Christian or Hindu. He offered us the keys to his city and said that any time we wanted to minister in India, the doors of India and the Far East would be open to us to teach the accuracy and the greatness of God's Word. " [And a guy in the train was able to see what happened completely in the back of the train, with his own eyes. And had influence in ALL OF INDIA. And gave vpw a standing invitation to come minister and teach in ALL OF INDIA. And gave him the keys to New Delhi based entirely on an incident NOT in New Delhi. And vpw remembered all this, but never followed up in India despite having an open door. This sounds scripted to me. And not scripted WELL, either.] [None of us ever got to see a display with the key to the city even. Funny how the man who name-dropped all over his personal history suddenly stops naming names when he got to THIS story. That's what happened when we got the made-up story about the 2 men who gave generously to charities and were hated in their community, but they secretly sat in a room and exercised their mysterious believing-power to illustrate vpw's fictional "law" of believing. The woman who murdered her child with her fear didn't have a name, either. I know someone once claimed to see photos of the incident- photos which, BTW, contradict vpw's account since the order of events is all wrong. However, no matter WHAT was in the 2 photos, this entire story seems like it's nearly all- or all- invented from whole cloth. Someone claimed this sounded partly like a movie about Lincoln they saw once. Perhaps something from that movie, plus something from someone else's ministry in India (E.Stanley Jones?)]

With everybody becoming God, he sounds sorta post-modern.... It's the other stuff that makes him sound Fundamentalist Mormon...

"Hooking up words and phrases and clauses." They have the sane name. I keep forgetting there WAS a staged show. The cartoon series- technoically a series of shorts- ran during commercial breaks during the 70s, on Saturday morning cartoons. You can currently buy a DVD with all the cartoons on it. (I did.) The sections on US history were so good, people trying to get US citizenship are sometimes recommended to watch them. I know that I grew up knowing the entire Preamble to the US Constitution, so long as I was allowed to sing it (or hum it when saying it.) If you're curious, the lyrics to the songs are (AFAIK) all online. Most or all of the cartoons are on YouTube. One episode of "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?" had a 4th grade question ask which British General's surrender ended the American Revolution. I began singing: "At Yorktown the British could not retreat Bottled up by Washington and the French Fleet. Cornwallis surrendered, and finally we had won." I didn't even get to post the more recognizable quotes. :) Your turn!

He's got a few other things you don't.... http://www.greaterthings.com/SterlingDAllan/FAQ/grandeur_following.htm "Do you not believe, as Joseph Smith taught, that you can eventually become God? I do, and I think you do too. Does not the Christian world find this so preposterous and so delusional as to be blasphemous? You know they do, and you know that this is one of the defining differences between Christianity in general and Mormonism (at least it used to be) -- a defining difference on which President Hinckley wavered when questioned about it by Larry King. (Sept. 8, 1998; ref.) I believe that all can and eventually will attain to godhood." ============================ Genesis 3:4-5 (NIV) 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:4-5 (NASB) 4The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! 5"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." I've heard this claim before.....

Ok, here's some quotes from the next one. ========================================== "This is the tale of Mister Morton. Mister Morton is who? He is the subject of our tale." "The past and the present and the future. Faith and Hope and Charity, the heart and the brain and the body give you three as a magic number." "Like Thomas Paine once wrote: 'It's only common sense, that if a government don't give you your basic rights, you'd better get another government.'"

You just happened to quote a television episode I know so well I can recite sections. (Any other episode from the same series-not so much.) The television show is "the Odd Couple." Felix often tried to give Oscar a guilty conscience with "Let it be on your head." The other episode you quoted was the episode where Myrna, Oscar's secretary, was having success with a computer dating service, "Executron." (She met a stockbroker.) She talked to Oscar, who decided to try it. Using a fake name. When the mail arrived, a letter arrived for "Andre la Plume." Oscar opened it. Felix:"Don't do that-that's a federal offense!" Oscar admitted it was his "pen name." Then he admitted it was for computer dating. He used wording similar to what Myrna said to him. He said he was tired of coming home to his lonely bed. "Lonely bed-everything you've ever owned is in that bed!" Then Felix changed his mind and supported Oscar. Although he thought Oscar should tell the truth when filling out their personal information file. He (and Miriam) went with him to the restaurant to meet his date- "Sarah Morgan." Who turned out to be Gloria, Felix's ex-wife. Felix, intensely jealous, insists on being a "superior person", and insists they date despite already knowing they are FRIENDS and it won't work. So they decide to make him admit his jealousy. They sat in the living room, and played Gin Rummy. Eventually, Felix ran out and exploded, thinking they were making out or something. "STOP! WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE ARE YOU? MY BEST FRIEND AND MY WIFE playing Gin Rummy?" Then they were done, and Gloria left. The last scene had them back at the restaurant, Felix, Miriam AND Gloria waiting with Oscar. Executron wouldn't give him his money back, so he tried again. "We know you won't end up with Gloria anymore, she's not Sarah Morgan, and you're not using a ridiculous name anymore like Andre Le Plume." "PAGING MISTER WILLARD EISENHOWER!" And met Lena Molinara. Who was Myrna, his secretary. "You're Lena Molinara?" "You're Willard Eisenhower?" "What happened to the stockbroker?" "He was married." *gestures at the seats at the table* "Slide in..."

That was the alias used at the very end of the episode the first quote came from- about that same character. He used a different pen name earlier on.

Even one splinter acknowledged that the twi method was to pay "protection money" to a "God-Father".

Obviously the first of the quotes was spoken to Willard Eisenhower.

CORRECT! Probably too easy, since I already mentioned the Bozeman the other day. I also picked the easiest quote, I think. With the repeating timewarp, Riker, Data and Worf kept repeating those lines.

"Sometimes I wonder if he's stacking the deck." "I assure you, Commander, the cards have been sufficiently randomized." "I hope so."

It's actually an old story. It wouldn't surprise me to see that twi heard of this recently. http://www.seekgod.ca/trfactor2.htm http://www.lebtahor.com/truth/trimm/plagiarisms/HRVAveryPaper.htm Looks like twi was plagiarized. That they broke the law doesn't mean others are justified in doing so. If someone else is engaging in a fraud, that's wrong, too.

It was small of him to make a comment like that.

"The Outrageous Okona." Data tried to learn how to be funny. (A suitcase shaped like a fish is NOT funny. At best, it's amusing.) The main plot involved Okona, and 2 societies that wanted to bring him in for supposedly committing a crime- 2 societies that were all but at war with each other, and their technology was far below that of the Federation. (Thus, their ships didn't pack weapons that could damage a Galaxy-class ship, let alone knock down its shields.)

Oh, in hindsight, it's not only believable, it's OBVIOUS. vpw HIMSELF didn't really respect JE Stiles until Stiles was rude to his own wife and "put her in her place." vpw enforced his world-view and indoctrinated the Corps and the other insiders (staffers, etc). As he planned, his views-including his carnal, unChristian, devilish ones- became widely embraced.

lcm spoke of it in his autobiography: "vp and me." We discussed it in the thread, "vp and me in Wonderland." http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/waydale/waydale-corps-notes/vp-and-me.html

Good point. As soon as he heard about the young, naive, idealistic, casual-about-sex Christians of the House of Acts, he rushed out to Haight-Ashbury to win them over. Of course, while he was there, he asked about orgies and supposedly spent enough time in San Francisco's "adult" bookstores and so on to get the pornographic photos and video he used for the CFS class. All in all, he managed to get a lot done in one trip..... The House of Acts Christians he subverted (which was "some of them") became the sales force he needed, as the bookend to Leonard's class and Bullinger's books. Now he had something to sell and people to advertise it. After that, it was just a matter of printing books, making appearances, and, eventually, taping classes on audio and video. Other people, to a sociopath, are insignificant insects. Other people only gain meaning when the sociopath can get something out of them- then they become a COMMODITY. And that's what twi's people were- they were sources of income, sources of adulation and "worship" for vpw, both the ego-stroke and the money. People paid him for lording over their lives. No, this is a common misconception- she never said that. http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/dubiousquotes/a/antoinette.htm http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/550/did-marie-antoinette-really-say-let-them-eat-cake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake

I keep confusing the Brattain with the Bozeman, which is why I keep thinking the ship reappeared. "As mentioned in the Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion, this episode is considered to be one of the weakest of the fourth season and many members of the production staff were unhappy with it. The scenes with Troi "flying" were said to be a "terrible" mistake by Jeri Taylor and Robert Legato described them as "horrible". Marina Sirtis commented that her desire for more action scenes had backfired; she had to grapple with an intense fear of heights in order to film them. Michael Piller noted that the pace of the show was so slow that the episode ran nine minutes over and had to be severely cut."