WordWolf

Actually, most of the people who left twi in more recent years read their way around this site, posted (or didn't), and then moved on with their lives with neither twi nor the GSC. To which I say "Good for them", and to which I say "Well done, GSC!"

There was definitely CORRELATION. Whether or not there was CAUSATION would be the question. (The ideas and practices co-existed in the same place at the same time. The question is if one inspired the other.)

*wild swing* Is that Disney's Pocahontus? (Or however it's spelled)

Tom Petty's song "Breakdown". (Or "Break Down", possibly.) I forget if he did it with the Heartbreakers or as a solo project.

Deuteronomy 22:13-27 (KJV) 13If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, 14And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: 15Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: 16And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; 17And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. 18And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him; 19And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. 20But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: 21Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. 22If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. 23If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. 25But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. ================================ Deuteronomy 22:13-27 (NASB) 13"If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, 14and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, 'I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,' 15then the girl's father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl's virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16"The girl's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her; 17and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. 18"So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him, 19and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl's father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20"But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, 21then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; thus (L)you shall purge the evil from among you. 22"If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel. 23"If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor's wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you. 25"But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26"But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27"When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her. ===============================

Correct. Your turn.

"I'll have what she's having!"

I'm SO hoping that doesn't happen-especially since they seem mutually exclusive. (Green and Blue didn't even mix- could you imagine someone trying to wield Rage and Hope at the same time?) Ok, let's see...

Steve! is right. George's recollection is right- but not his interpretation of the quotes. So, Steve, please take it.

Unless that one guy was running a series of seminars, or the seminars were being run by a man whose last name is "Senior."

Well, judging from the timing, the reason is obvious in hindsight- many of us were there/then and left at the same time. The short answers were that vpw ran a VERY successful con using the work of other Christians and claiming he had a unique connection to God and that's where all the teachings came from. vpw died in 1985. A few years earlier, vpw decided all by himself to appoint l craig martindale as his successor (a lot of people recommended a lot of other people.) When asked about his decision, he said it was because lcm had always done whatever he said without questioning it. (vpw HIGHLY valued blind obedience, and the 2 men most likely to jump off a cliff at his command were the men he put in charge- lcm at HQ, and chris geer at Gartmore, Scotland.) Shortly after lcm was put in charge, he began messing things up. lcm grew up in twi and only knew what he learned from vpw. So, he lacked experience and broadness of practice that would have been vital in his position. So, with lcm running the bus into the ditch regularly, people saw there were things wrong- and supposedly vpw the perfect selected lcm. Then vpw died and the illusion of The Great And Powerful Oz faded for many people. Furthermore, shortly before he died, vpw visited cg at Gartmore and supposedly condemned all the leadership except for cg. ("The Passing of the Patriarch" is posted on this website- the 40-page letter cg wrote which he claims vpw said to him.) Then lcm went into "a fog" for about 2 years, while his inability to fill the office he was in caught up with him. He later decided (at the end of "the fog years") that what was missing was blind obedience like people had given vpw (at vpw's clever design.) So, when different people tried to reason with him in different ways, he fired them. So, in late 1988 and early 1989, 4/5 of all the twi leadership were fired, including virtually all the "top" ministry people. (With very few exceptions, they turned around and made their OWN organizations which demanded loyalty and insisted THEY had The Truth.) The entire research dept walked off at this time. So, 4/5 of the membership of twi walked off at that time. lcm made that a LOT easier by firing all the staff at the same time, ensuring they were still in contact with each other and able to function as "a ministry" pretty much like they always did- once they replaced any property belonging to twi (cars, houses, equipment.) A lot of people stayed connected- but if your local leaders all decided to bow their knee to the image of lcm (figuratively, he didn't make a statue of HIMSELF) and you did not, then you were isolated where you were, especially if the nearest local fellowships did the same. (Nowadays we have the internet and this would not be as much of an issue.) So, that's probably why they just STOPPED in 1990.

[WordWolf responds in brackets and boldface.]

Welcome to our community! That must have really been a bad day to be a kid- in effect, a reverse-Christmas where a bunch of toys gets TAKEN AWAY instead of GIVEN.

We discussed this before. :) "Epa!!!" That was from The Simpsons Movie. BTW, I hope you're at least aware of the "Blackest Night" storyline. I expected it to be horribly bad, but it seems to work, and it's including some stuff I never thought they'd use again (Xanshi and the big bad secretly behind it.) THIS is how a writer can use his inner fanboy for GOOD and not for evil. If nothing else, you might check your local shops for the shirts and rings. The rings are expected to start coming out in November.

Personally, I thought Crispin Glover as the "friendly" but secretly evil Willy Wonka was somehow more believable than the one played by Depp. If nothing else, his wardrobe really fit a villain more than a "good guy." (Then again, I was quite disappointed in that remake as a whole.)

"The signal is a standard mathematical progression. It does not carry a specific message." "But they want us to know they're there." "Apparently so. Starfleet believes their presence is an attempt to start a dialogue." "A cause for concern. For all we know, they are threatening our border." "Everything in the previous encounters suggests a peaceable race. We have to start from there."

Yes. I agree with all of that. :)

Yes, it's "Unnatural Selection." I'm not sure if this is when she gets a clue about Data. See what happens when Trek ignores its own ban on genetic engineering? :)

Since we've been abandoned, I'll move this along.... "If this hadn't worked, it would have been necessary to beam your energy into empty space-" "-and spread my atoms across the galaxy!" "Yes, I'm sorry, it-" "No, no, don't be sorry. Every time I get into the d* thing I'm convinced that's what's going to happen."

Anchorman Fred Willard Epic Movie (It's almost scary sometimes which movies I remember. This one I can't forget, try as I might. But it had a decent cast.)

"ATTICA! ATTICA!"

Those who have been on the receiving end (or the delivering end, depending on how you define it) of things science would scoff at tend to be among the slowest to be persuaded that modern science has all the answers- because we've seen otherwise. I know science has many, many, MANY answers, but that's far short of a Richard Dawkins-like "science has all the answers to everything except ignorance" position. Not for nothing are there notable scientists who are steadfast Christians....

Spring 1984, vpw decided the corps would be smokeless henceforth. Let's see, this would be after lifelong chain-smoker vpw was diagnosed with cancer, but long before (if ever) public announcements were made that he HAD cancer. (A lot of us heard his cause of death was "he got tired of the fight", which sounds like one way of saying "natural causes.")

If that's not "the Fantastic Four", it should be!

Hiway29, it's your turn.....