WordWolf

You only saw it that time? I thought it was quite re-watchable.

"Here comes a stingray. There goes a manta-ray. In walked a jelly fish. There goes a dogfish. Chased by a catfish."

Pressed Down, Shaken Together, and Running Over. (Luke 6:38.) aka "Pressed Down", aka PDSTRO, aka "PeDeSTRO." There were a number of local or known bands that were in twi. (Known across twi, anyway.) Some of the artists had music careers after twi.

It doesn't count as a turn or anything, but just so this doesn't remain unanswered, http://paulbarker.org/assets/images/Graphics/Boulevard%20of%20Broken%20Dreams.jpg

That leaves aside that at least one female poster said so outright.

Next artist, next song. ==================== "There goes a dogfish. Chased by a catfish."

Ok, I've tied up the thread long enough. Both songs were from the Tom Tom Club. The first was "Pleasure of Love", the second was "Genius of Love." Here's the first. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21bgw_tom-tom-club-pleasure-of-love_music Here's the second. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54cLoHtVn-Q http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxytw_tom-tom-club-genius-of-love_music

Personally, I think if they remembered the EXACT episode title, I think we can skip having them name the series. Not that it isn't a good thing to name the series also, but if they were EXACT, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Nobody would mind you trying one. However, the turns generally go from the person posting one song, to the person who guessed them correctly. That means Waysider's waiting for confirmation he guessed correctly. At that point, it's Waysider's turn. However, since this isn't a religion, nobody's keeping score, and we like to encourage more people to join in, Waysider MAY just say "Ok, you can have the turn". (Although he doesn't HAVE to.) One thing to remember is that, although ANY song that has been broadcast is fair to post, the players here tend to be older, so I try not to post many songs that never got airplay after, say, 1985. One exception I like to do is post songs that were re-released by a different artists after 1985, but was released originally before that, preferably longer. You could still post songs that got released more recently, but fewer players will know them.

No, you got a Javascript program on the page when you websurfed, which was scripted to RESEMBLE the Windows Messenger Popups. I can't get those for several reasons. One, my Windows Messenger is DISABLED because even WINDOWS admitted they never used the thing, so they set things up to make it easier to disable, and before THAT, I found a program to disable it called "Shoot the Messenger." Two, I use FireFox, and I have both a Popup Remover on, and the AddOn program NoScript, which prevents little surprise programs like the one that fooled you from even RUNNING. The popup was an advertisement. The entire thing was STILL part of the advertisement. There was no real "scan", thus no "scan RESULT." It pretended to run a scan, then announced "results." The fact that your getting these popups mean you DO need to run some programs. However, the ones they're advertising are NOT the ones you need. There's plenty of free programs you should run. Sometimes you do. The "hoax" was installed when you agreed to "let it remove infections." If you'd ignored it, you would not have had to remove that. Although your settings SHOULD prevent that from running. I haven't seen those announcements in quite a few years. And even then, it wasn't on MY PC.

As I understand it, there were always people arriving and leaving. In terms of MASS exits, the first one I'm aware of was shortly after victor paul wierwille's death. That was when chris geer wrote his "Passing of the Patriarch" paper which accused the twi leadership of killing vpw, and gave vague accusations of being "off the Word." (It was written from cg's perspective that vpw was like unto the writers of the New Testament.) http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/waydale/waydale-miscellaneous/passing-of-the-patriarch.html Not long after this, there were several reasons different people exited. Ralph D was one of the people who had been approached by women abused by twi top staffers, and he was unable to get any satisfactory answer to it, or any answers other than "Sssshh!" "You question us? You must be possessed!" and "You are now being thrown off grounds. We're posting a guard until you leave." He was one person at the top who questioned things after vpw died. Some questioned (like Ralph) because uncomfortable truths were coming to light. Others questioned because they didn't think l craig martindale had the brains to blow his own nose, let alone run what they thought was God's Ministry. Others had their own reasons (some speculation has included they wanted to have been in charge, so they went off to form their own ministries based on their preferred parts of twi.) Anyway, so sometime in 1985-1986, there was the first big exodus. It was so big that it was noticed by external media. Those of you so inclined can do a little research (I did once), and go to the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature, and find the article in Christianity Today called "Infighting trims branches at the Way International." It's about 1 page, and was about this split. This in turn led to "the fog years", when even lcm admits he wandered about as if in a fog. In 1988/1989, lcm came out of his fog, and demanded an oath of loyalty to himself PERSONALLY. (Not to "God", not to "God's Word", not even to "The Ministry", but to HIMSELF.) One person who knew him phoned him personally to confirm this was what was meant. "When I asked if this letter was a call to blindly follow him he said I had been doing this all along. I then told him if that's what he thinks he could 'kiss my @$$'. I think I was dropped from the rolls of the Way Corps that next morning." That prompted the biggest mass exit in twi history. 80% of the rank-and-file were all gone, including 80% of the leadership, and virtually the entire research department including its head, Walter Cummins. After that, twi began the process of hemorrhaging members, which lasted until around 1999, when lcm was finally exposed in legal documents as a criminal and a pervert (vpw was never caught legally during his lifetime, he was a criminal and a pervert who was not caught.), there was another exodus from twi. It couldn't be as big as the 1989 one, because so many fewer people were still IN twi. Still, percentage-wise, they lost a sizeable chunk. After that, twi went back to hemorrhaging members again, to the point that their current membership numbers overall (including minors) must be about 3000 (if not less.) So that's the major Exoduses. (Exodi? Exodia?) A) 1985-1986, "infighting trims branches" as some top leaders leave or are kicked out B) 1988-1989 lcm's "line in the sand", 80% leave as lcm demands blind loyalty to himself C) 1998-1999 lcm's ousted by lawsuit and lawyers, followers are fed up and leave

I've never seen any evidence of a "MASS exit" in the 60s. The people who were around victor paul wierwille from the 50s and 60s were not around in 1968. That doesn't mean there was a "MASS exit". I think it means he had retention problems for both decades, and it took the combination of the plagiarized works he plagiarized in the 50s, plus the hijacking of the hippies in the end of the 60s (part of the Jesus People movement) to change that. I think he was polishing his act until then, and he finally had an audience of dupes/pigeons to try it on at that point. Before that, people drifted off here and there all the time. It's as much a supposition as saying they all left at once, but there's no evidence there was any incident that would CAUSE everyone to leave at once, and people trickle out of groups all the time without a special reason. So, I think it's more likely there was no "MASS exit", just a slow trickle of all the people until the late 60s. (I invoke Ockham's Razor.)

It's giving her too much credit. She didn't want to be the "Head Honcho", she wanted to be IN CHARGE, which is NOT the same thing. She was happier being invisible but controlling whatever she wanted, and letting someone else (lcm) be the public face of twi and draw all the attention and flak for being the "Head Honcho." It was easier for her to do whatever she wanted without comment when lcm was in charge. That's why she covered for him for years, and finally booted him only when the lawyers said he had to go. Now, people talk about her and notice her-which makes it a little harder to get away with things. After all, most people can go to a dirty movie and nobody cares, but you be a public figure like Peewee Herman and people NOTICE. Similarly, Drew Carey tells a story about an incident that happened when he was at Mardi Gras. He told one reveler that no one would care what they did or who they were, which was correct. What he didn't realize was that since he was a public figure, he was being videotaped- so the other person, because they were standing next to him, was notable as long as they stood right by him. Anyway, if you're not the head of a religious organization, a politician, an actor, or other celebrity, what you do tends to go unnoticed- including when you don't want to be noticed. If you're a public figure, avoiding notice takes work when you're not behind closed doors.

I think this older thread about the wap class, the "way of abundance and power" class, explains it. lcm had poor impulse control, ego problems, and lacked the brains and skill to snow people like vpw did. So when he taught wap, it was nonsensical, disjointed, error-ridden, easily disproven, and bizarre. People in the audience could be seen looking at him like he was an idiot, whenever he spouted off some nonsense. That's why he added a comment to his silly "explanation" about the original sin being a threesome with the supposedly clever "Don't see it? Too bad-I do!" As if his opinion was the only one that mattered, and disagreement was to be stomped out and didn't count at all. He also flew off the handle a number of times, telling people that if they didn't like what he was teaching, to "go to church"- investing that phrase with the context of jumping into the effluvia of some sewage plant, as if sitting through church really was worse than sitting through lcm's class.

The average follower of the way international is fully capable of knowing the details of l craig martindale's "indiscretions" and victor paul weirwille's "indiscretions." (The rapes, the molestations, the sexual harrassments, etc.) They're relatively easy to find online. Many of the remaining people (of which there are not so many) have made the deliberate decision to refuse to know those "indiscretions." That's less of a surprise when you realize some people who are OUT refuse to admit even 1/2 the things vpw did. Many of the remaining people, however, are well aware of both. Not for nothing did lcm insist people avoid the internet completely, and finally agree they can go online BRIEFLY then remain offline. He was trying to keep twi'ers in the dark. Mind you, this was at the same time their Public Relations mouthpiece was saying they keep everyone informed on everything, "from soup to nuts." If you believe that one, I have this bridge in Brooklyn that's for sale cheap.... Keep in mind that there's a gap between the numbers of people who admit lcm did ANYTHING (he admitted to a ONE-TIME "indiscretion" which some people believe but they refuse to believe any of the other business) and the numbers of people who admit vpw did ANYTHING. lcm was made to be twi's fall guy by Donna and Rosalie. Despite Rosalie admitting she was complicit in his deeds for years, twi'ers either don't believe that or don't care- they accept the version of reality spoon-fed to them by twi. However, they're STILL trying to whitewash the evil deeds of victor paul wierwille- serial rapist, molester, embezzler, drunkard, plagiarist, simonist, and all-around abuser of the people for whom Christ died. I don't have any kind of estimates or educated guesses as to percentages, numbers, or even ballpark figures. Almost all of them COULD know, a minority know AND BELIEVE it and are waiting for the right time to leave twi or are higher up the ladder than peons and hope to get a cushy, make-work job out of it. In general, lcm isn't mentioned much and "his" classes and materials are mentioned as little as necessary. He was the writer of a book (which accompanied his class of the same) on "Rise and Expansion of the First Century Church." It's not without irony that one can note that this is the same man who said all movements of God's people accompanies growth in numbers (in his class and book) while his term as twi President was one where membership numbers dropped eventually to 1/10 of what it was when he took the office. He oversaw the biggest fall and contraction in twi history. the way international hemorrhaged yet more members when lcm was caught ADMITTING to committing crimes and abusing his office. There's still a few thousand (possibly as many as 3000 including minors) who claim membership/ call themselves "followers". However, the exposing of his evil deeds and vpw's evil deeds are what led to almost all the twi people leaving who did leave, to a small degree or to a large degree (small degrees in the 1980s, large degrees after that.) twi has not TECHNICALLY dissolved. However, its membership numbers are miniscule on the world stage on which they always considered themselves major players. We may consider this "old hat", but some of us stick around so that new arrivals can ask and get useful answers. (That and play games in the Reading Room.) I'd say that the smallest minority is aware, believes rosalie rivenbark, donna martindale, loy craig martindale, victor paul wierwille and others were the perpetrators of criminal actions against God's people. Those few really only care about trying to run the show. A few youngsters ignore decades of previous youngsters who tried to fix twi and think THEY can succeed where decades of others failed. (They will learn by experience how futile that is.) The majority of the few still in twi are willing to accept whatever twi says, and swallow any lie no matter how ridiculous, because they're terrified of facing the rest of the world and possibly admit they spent 10,20,30,40 years in error. (There's even those out of twi who think the same.) There is a great deal of denial, and a resignation that "there's nothing better out there" (which, of course, is a lie, but an ACCEPTED lie.) Then again, there's a few people out there who stoked the young victor paul wierwille II's ego and have him thinking he will be some great leader of God's people and that his namesake was one, as well. The capability for twi and ex-twi splinters to exercise massive denial is fascinating.

Ok, but at ROA '89, when everybody who was left were getting all the vacant titles, and the Regions were now small enough to be made West, Central, and East (Instead of Northeast, SouthEast....), there was talk- serious talk- that Rupp would be IN CHARGE of the Corps from then on. Someone even eavesdropped on me when I discussed it with someone else, and interrupted the discussion saying something to the effect that Rupp had grown a lot in the past year and was now ready for it. I don't know what happened after the talk- maybe someone with more "pull" wanted it and Rupp was made an assistant, the first step in his climb up the ladder.

Here's all the "basic" classes, in order. 1) BG Leonard's CTC Gifts of the Spirit class. It completely predates victor paul wierwille, the way international, and so on. Leonard taught a class about the Holy Spirit- a "How To" class, targeted towards ministers primarily, with the intention that these better-trained ministers would return to their congregations and minister to them more effectively. (The End.) In Spring of 1953, vpw heard about that class, and went up to Canada, interrupting one in progress and demanding to be included, which Leonard permitted. vpw then retook the next class, and brought along a few people to take it as new students. (This class was, and still is, in effect, Basic, Intermediate and Advanced.) 2) "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today." In Fall of 1953, vpw asked Leonard for permission to reteach Leonard's class locally on a one-time basis, which Leonard permitted. Leonard also received a photo of that class for his photo collection. Meanwhile, vpw ran that class, mentioned nothing of Leonard (whose class it was, word-for-word, down to the vocal inflections), and said it was his OWN class. (He kept a photo of the class for his own photo collection.) vpw continued to teach Leonard's class with his own name on it, never telling Leonard. As a class textbook, he used a book of the same name. This book was basically a retyping of JE Stiles book on the Gift of the Holy Spirit. That the classes were identical is even more obvious when one notes that vpw considered the students who took Leonard's class to automatically be considered grads of "his" class as well. 3) "Power for Abundant Living." In the years following, vpw made cosmetic changes to Leonard's work and Stiles' work. He also added material from others, including EW Kenyon (mostly Word-Faith material on "believing") and large amounts of material from EW Bullinger, especially his book on "How to Enjoy the Bible", which was effectively incorporated fully into the class vpw taught. He eventually renamed that class "Power For Abundant Living" and divided it into 3 classes- Foundational, Intermediate, Advanced. Eventually, that class was taped onto audio and video. Previously, only vpw and one or 2 others (Del Dunc@n) were permitted to teach it, and did so live. 4) "Way of Abundance and Power." After vpw's death, l craig martindale put his stamp on everything the way international did. (Before vpw's death, too. He showed up in nearly everything Way Productions did, culminating in playing the lead role in the ripoff of "Satan's Alley" he called "Athletes of the Spirit" (a phrase he ripped off the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.") It was only a matter of time before he ripped off vpw's pfal class and replaced it with his own, instructing people to destroy the old class. lcm's wap class was far weaker than pfal was. lcm had less style, and less substance. He inserted bizarre topics, and changed things vpw taught for reasons left to speculation. This class cause twi to lose more people, because rank-and-file had little confidence in it. They addressed its weaknesses to their local leadership, who stamped out discussion like forest fires. "The Board of Trustees approved it, that's good enough for me", despite some errors being quite glaring. The most obvious one is where lcm claims "original sin" was homosexuality, and lcm tortures Genesis 3 until he claims Eve had carnal relations with the devil in the form of a woman, with Adam also taking part. (Much discussion has ensued about lcm's seeming fascination with the idea of a man partaking in a threesome with 2 women.) IIRC, it's also where they tortured one verse into saying that ANY form of financial debt is evil and DEMANDED all twi'ers terminate mortgages, get rid of car leases, etc. twi doesn't push that one so loudly anymore- so many people have documented how stupid it is- but they still soft-pedal it and it's still an issue when the public isn't looking. [Edited to add: all versions of wap are divided into Foundational, Intermediate and Advanced, just like pfal was.] 5) "Way of Abundance and Power" lite. After lcm was canned/"forced to resign" because he got caught molesting and raping women, twi had people locally teach his class, not using his tapes. They soft-pedaled the more ridiculous stuff, covering it quickly and moving on to other material, but they still included it. 6) "Way of Abundance and Power", version 2. That's the current version, with 3 different twi people recording different sessions. It's essentially the lite version on tape, but I hear they don't include telling people they teach the original sin threesome and that all debt is evil. (Those are instead snuck in AFTER the person has taken wap.) Please note that wap began a policy where 3 people was the minimum to run a class, where 7 used to be the minimum for pfal. Even so, there were usually 2 pfal Foundational classes locally per year, whereas wap barely runs once per year, even with only needing 3 new people. Oh, and wap is a REQUIREMENT. If you took pfal, it no longer counts as a prerequisite towards ANYTHING. In fact, it's treated as a detriment. =================== The Others-Splinter Versions. Please note that various splinter groups have taught their own classes, some of them still doing so. Some people still run recorded pfal classes done by vpw. Others have taught that class live, with names like "Power for Victorious Living" and so on, and other iterations have been made, with more than cosmetic changes but including much of the pfal material. Vince Finnegan taped "His Story" and Chris Geer has his own class, "Walking in God's Power." I'm sure there's others. None of these classes are ever advertised online- as if the teachers are AFRAID TO BE NOTICED, or are AFRAID TO DRAW SCRUTINY, possibly because they use vpw's class extensively and never mention HIS name, just as vpw used Leonard's class and never mentioned HIM.

This announcement wasn't common knowledge when I arrived in 1985. You'd think if it was a LEGITIMATE announcement, it would have been repeated over and over and reached even the lowly peons certainly within the next 5 years. Then again, every few years, vpw and lcm both made a habit of making an announcement that changed everything. All accounts of the 1976 (US Bicentennial) are that it was a huge deal. Then came vpw's retirement/replacement by lcm, which, I admit, would be a legitimate announcement. However, as you heard, that was coupled with "The Word is over The World!" 1985 itself was a big deal, when vpw died. A number of people honestly expected Jesus Christ to return during victor paul wierwille's lifetime. 1989 was when lcm came out of his fog and demanded the oath of loyalty, which meant 80% of the way international walked off at once. A few years later, lcm walked onto the podium, and announced he has just gotten revelation a moment ago. (Despite the group being 20% of the size it was previously) The Word was now over the world. Henceforth, the way international would not be about getting The Word over the world, but it would be about living in the promised land of the prevailing Word. I think both announcements were equally made-up. You'd be surprised with some of the reactions some people had upon hearing from someone whom they respected or otherwise trusted, who said that vpw had molested/raped/drugged/violated them. Some people called them liars, including family members. (Some have refused to apologize about that to this very day, considering their memory of vpw more important than a living loved one.) We had one poster here claim that vpw did this for the good of the women, that it was supposed to "toughen them up spiritually", and that we only react to rape and molestation because our prudish culture predisposes us to do so- ignoring everything God's Word has to say on the subject, of course... Hm? Yeah, a more modern version of the Jael-Sisera incident would have changed things, for sure. Sadly, vpw made an incredibly thorough job of covering his tracks, starting with priming his audience, carefully selecting his victims, even through having them monitored afterwards, and having them kicked out and smearing their reputation before they could tell anyone if they showed signs of talking. In the category of rape, I think he approached the status of criminal mastermind. Too bad he never really dedicated as much effort to the things of God as he did in satisfying his flesh...

In terms of understanding the plan of salvation, and getting saved, no I don't think it matters. In terms of what's true and what's false, then, yes, I think it matters. (I won't stay up nights worried about it, but I prefer to be correct when I can manage it.)

vpw documented that one in Whiteside's book. Of course, he said nothing about it being a gimmick- he said there's times God won't permit him to explain further...

" 'What you gonna do when you get out of jail?' 'I'm gonna have some fun.' 'What do you consider fun?' 'Fun, natural fun.' I'm in heaven With my boyfriend, my laughing boyfriend. There's no beginning and there is no end. Time isn't present in that dimension. He'll take my arm When we're walkin', rolling and rocking. It's one time I'm glad I'm not a man. Feels like I'm dreaming, but I'm not sleeping. I'm in heaven With the maven of funk mutation. Clinton's musicians such as Bootsy Collins Raise expectations to a new intention. No one can sing Quite like Smokey, Smokey Robinson. Wailin' and shakin' to Bob Marley Reggae's expanding with Sly and Robbie." "Stepping in a rhythm to a Kurtis Blow. Who needs to think when your feet just go?' "James Brown, James Brown! James Brown, James Brown!"

Who's John Rupp? I don't have a biography of him. Judging from what I know personally and what's been posted of him, I'd say I know this.... Supposedly, he was in the military at some point before his twi experience. John Rupp was a relative newcomer who completed his Way Corps commitment in 1989. As you may remember, he was finishing it on-grounds as lcm demanded an oath of loyalty to himself personally, and fired or kicked out everyone who gave any other answer than swearing loyalty to him. Not counting the people who had left over the past few "fog years", when lcm drew his line in the sand, 80% of the people who were now in the way international were no longer welcome in the way international. lcm was thoughtful enough to kick them all out together, so 80% of the local structures and 80% of the rank-and-file were all still in touch with each other. This of course means that they formed a few groups, and the few largest groups were at least the size of the twi that remained, if not bigger. (Together they certainly outnumbered it.) 80% of all the competent twi people, if not more, left or were kicked out- since those that remained had to prove they were more loyal to lcm and twi than to any principle even if given by God Almighty. (The entire research staff walked, for example.) With so many competent people gone, this was THE opportunity for the ambitious yet unskilled (or at least unconnected and inexperienced) to leap to the forefront. Which they did. Getting back to John Rupp, that means that as soon as he graduated from the Way Corps, he was immediately promoted to Corps Coordinator, which means he was now IN CHARGE of the Way Corps. He demonstrated loyalty, so he was able to work his way up the ladder- especially as more people above him were kicked out or left. So, he was able to stay still and get "promoted" by ATTRITION, not through any demonstrated skills. I know that the man who read part of the script for their commercial and was supposedly John Rupp was a stiff caricature of the man Rupp had been years before, when he was in the Corps. He was now LESS than he had been, and demonstrably so. But, he talked the party line, he bowed his knee to the image of the way international, and that was enough to keep a cushy job. Mind you, early on, he'd made the statement (made it to me PERSONALLY) that God chose vpw, and that vpw chose lcm by revelation, so that either lcm was right when he was demanding his oath of loyalty, or else God was stupid. (For those wondering, God never chose victor paul wierwille. victor paul wierwille chose victor paul wierwille. victor paul wierwille chose l craig martindale- NOT by revelation, but on the basis of lcm always doing whatever vpw told him to do, and supposedly because the Corps might follow him since he'd been promoted-prematurely- to Corps Coordinator previously. Those who were around may remember vpw asking people to nominate candidates, which is not how you get revelation to select someone. History has proven that both choices were harmful to people. lcm was the wrong choice, and God Almighty was neither stupid nor invited to participate in the process. In fact, the whole thing was just like vpw said in pfal, where he described people making their own decisions, then afterwards thanking God for blessing the decisions they'd already made without Him.) Among those handfuls still connected to twi, someone floated a rumor that Rupp is "a great people person and a very good teacher of the word." I suppose comparing him to the others remaining he looks better, but that's a lot like being the best surfer in Antarctica. From his position as Corps Coordinator, Rupp was made the assistant to the Trunk Coordinator, Bill Green, and an observer said he served as Green's "yes man." He's been observed to operate without conscience and act as directed by the higher ups, whether that was to lean on WOWs to push the class constantly, and conceal information from the class candidates and keep them in suspense, or to kick out Full-Time Corps (during the "all Corps are full time" fiasco) who were forced to allow a woman and her unruly son to live with them until they gave up trying and said she had to leave. No discussion, no explanation, they were kicked out for not keeping their necks in a situation they considered intolerable. When Bill Green was fired from the Trunk Coordinator position, Rupp moved up into that spot from the "Assistant to TC" spot. When the Board was reshuffled, Rupp was moved to one of the 3 VP spots, and given the title "Minister of USA Operations." Basically, he is now over the current Trunk Coordinator, and passes the orders from "the Board" (Rosalie and Donna) to the TC. In plain English, he's the Trunk Coordinator, and the other guy (the supposed TC) is his assistant. But they look more important-and more busy- on paper this way. Rupp's also taught 2 sessions in their current WAP class, sessions 1 and 2. 2005 gave him the VP office, 2006 was the release of the new class. There's a rumor going around that Rupp's currently the sole remaining VP, which puts him within reach of Rosalie and Donna. Yes, technically, Donna's position-on paper-isn't much- but as Rosalie's confidant, she is de facto (if not de jure) above Rupp in authority, pull, and say-so. If Rupp finally thinks he can have what's left after Rosalie's too feeble to object, he has to figure out what to do about Donna first. Then again, although he's not very young either, Donna's also working her way up in years. Maybe there will be a "hunting accident" or some other mishap, and Donna will suddenly be incapacitated....

I've come to approximately the same conclusion, for approximately the same reasons.

We've never met, but I'm glad you've shown up to speak for yourself. I hope you stick around a while- for this thread if for no other.

I'll add another consideration to the rest. Looking at the entire history of what victor paul wierwille did and said, and when he did and said it, it seems obvious that he built his entire career on the talents of other people, and the gaps in time reflect the times he was limited in what he could find and claim credit for. From the beginning, vpw knew he was a fake. He constructed a fictional character he played, and cobbled it all together from the work of others- the manner of speaking, the materials, even the personal anecdotes of life experiences, at times. All of that was so that victor paul wierwille could give out that himself was some great one, so that they would all give him heed, from the least to the greatest, saying "This man is the great power of God." It was so successful that a few people, having displeased vpw or his successor or having been labeled a failure by them, went off and committed suicide. He convinced some women-some married, some single- that it was perfectly fine with God to help a man commit adultery by fornicating with him. When craig martindale came along, he was completely snowed about all of that. vpw convinced lcm that this was all a legitimate movement of God, so lcm carried himself accordingly. vpw knew that he would have to "play" his audience- he knew there were times to hide his true intentions and answers to questions, he knew that there were times to play the "benevolent father" and times he could secretly crush someone's personality. lcm never stopped to think that he had to "play" his audience- he thought everything he saw vpw do was approved of God- so he could copy him at will and God would approve. So, the "do some things in secret" strategy wasn't a factor. Add that to his lesser intelligence, lesser skill in strategy and falsehood, add his big ego, add his jock mentality, and it's clear lcm was possibly the worst choice for a successor vpw could possibly have chosen! Then again, all he had to do was fit vpw's own criteria- when asked once just after selecting lcm, vpw said it was because lcm had always obeyed him without question no matter what. That was "good enough" for vpw, but over time, it was painfully obvious it wasn't "good enough" for everyone else.