WordWolf

(Bump)

My thinking was, by discussing it and thinking logically, we could determine if an apparent contradiction was a contradiction IN FACT or if it merely APPEARED SO and a more complete understanding would resolve the conflict. The emphasis, of course, being on DISCUSSION and LOGICAL THINKING rather than a "vpw said it, that settles it, I believe it" approach which is so obviously unhealthy.

Don't blame her. You missed the entire point of her post and tried to isolate a verse of Scripture, changing its meaning, to try to say she was wrong. If you keep polarizing everything, others will keep noticing. Because he does not WISH to know this. Verses that say the opposite of twi dogma are IGNORED. If they are brought up, the subject is CHANGED. Nothing must be allowed to interrupt the illusion that twi doctrine was healthy always.

Well, if we look at the timing, one could argue it a few ways. Here's what we know: vpw heard about the House of Acts and the young Christians there. He raced over there double-quick, and did his best to hijack the hippies there. When talking to J1m D00p, vpw asked for specific details about ORGIES and told D00p- who was thankful to be DELIVERED FROM THEM- that ORGIES were ok with God and attempted to mutilate a verse of Scripture to say that. Shortly after the hippies started coming to hq, vpw had them out on both coasts as recruitment arms for twi. Within a few years of that, vpw fired all the top Christians from before twi (H33fn3r, D00p) and consolidated control over the local Christian movements now on both coasts and had them taking their orders from him. About that time was the first corps. Going from the timeframe, I think vpw's intention with the corps was to have young people who would follow him blindly off a cliff no matter what he said, and the goals for the women was to find women who he could have sex with, and the goal for the men was manual labor and extensions of vpw's will on location. (Of course, finding corps who would do other things like cook for him, etc was a bonus.) Depending on how you look at it, that's 3 goals. 1) Get blind followers 2) Get sex victims 3) Get worker drones Or that's all 1 goal with specifics. Furthermore, since the program was designed to make a financial profit while having corps labor full-time, it was amazingly profitably from a finances POV. Bring in money while bringing in FREE LABOR? Get people to PAY TO WORK? You can't convince me that was an ACCIDENT.

[Quite instructive? What if what you were taught was wrong? I refuse to even consider the possibility. I was taught it was wrong to CONSIDER-look what it did to Eve. So, if I'm wrong, I'd rather stay wrong a lifetime than think.] [since your conclusion contradicts Scripture, your reasoning is faulty.] Romans 7:25 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. Romans 8:6-8. 6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8: 13 13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. [Nothing in Scripture says those who follow the law of sin die IMMEDIATELY or SOON. Frankly, if those who did, DID die shortly, even the thickest natural man would notice. "Well, they said that was safe activity to practice- but everyone who practices it dies within a year. They must be wrong." Plenty of those who live according to the flesh cut years and DECADES off their lives. We all know at least one person who did- who was a chronic smoker and chronic drinker rather than practicing the temperance, moderation, and good stewardship of the body that God says to practice- and he died fairly young for someone who had excellent access to healthcare. Then there was Jerry Garcia, who likewise did all sorts of things, looked decades older than he was, and died fairly young for the late 20th century. Then there was Freddie Mercury, who practiced dangerous activities of all sorts. He got sick and died fairly young. Then there was Jim Morrison, and Janice Joplin. They died VERY young, and directly due to their dangerous practices. Of course, there's no 1:1 correlation "bad practices=dying young", but it does age the body prematurely. Jerry Garcia, I heard, was trying to clean out when he died- the damage was already done long ago for long periods of time. Jim Jones had lots of young followers who died young because they were stupid enough to follow what their "minister" said to do. Some people have less-than-healthy genes, and can have a heart attack fairly young. Others can be unhealthy and not have heart attacks, eventually dying but lasting longer than one might suppose. However, the damage that those who pursue sin do to themselves does not kill the person in anything resembling a short time, in a manner showing "it's due to the sin in practice."]

I remember discussing a cover to an issue I'd seen of Moody's magazine. It showed a guy with his garage completely filled with all sorts of tools, pegboards, outlets and so on. The caption was "When will we finally feel ready?" (Or something close to that.) They thought it was a good question. Looking back, it's obvious it was a better question for them than it was for me. They'd jumped through every hoop twi had, and STILL nobody was saying "Ok, you're as prepared as we can make you. Now go out there and serve God." Instead, it was about a lifetime of remaining plugged in to the twi hierarchy, "tapped to the root" and never about deciding to do anything with autonomy or actually thinking for themselves.

I've seen some amazing stories here, which, in hindsight, really should come as no shock. How, especially back in the Groovy Christian era, everybody looked different.... then they spent time at hq and started carrying the same briefcases, etc. And eventually the hairstyles were becoming standardized. I've read about how lcm tried to grow a sad little mustache- and then the drones all tried to grow them? Of course, now it's the opposite, and mustaches have been vanishing off faces like personalities behind the faces. And lcm himself documented how vpw EXPECTED lcm to imitate him- using ministry money to buy lcm a motorcycle..... only those in denial should be surprised vpw was trying to do this all through the 70s.

Planet Fitness This one has been my latest favorite. My favorite M&M commercial.

Yes it does, and it's your turn. There are many good lines from that show. Odd how few of them are posted online. I was looking for a few favorite but just couldn't find them. It's had an impressive list of guest-stars, too. Rita Moreno, Edward James Olmos, Lou Diamond Phillips, Adam West.... Sadly, the character of "Bennie" tends to ruin the show for me.

Matthew 20: 25-28 25But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Matthew 25:43-45 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. Mark 10:42-44 42But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: 44And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.

Congratulations! And enjoy your sleep while you can!

"Do I look like a stupid man?" "What?" "Do I look like an idiot? Do I look like a moron? Do I look like a buffoon?" "Hey, no-one's forcing you to go to SuperCuts." "I can never do nothing!" "We're gonna start with a different game tonight. It's called "Bombshells." In the suburbs, it's called "You might wanna sit down for this. It's a shocker." In the hood, it's called "Oh, no you didn't." "At the factory, I deal with ex-cons, substance abusers, and sexual harassers. And I'm not just talking about my mom. " "From now on, we're home schooling you. Whatever we don't know, you don't know. When did the Korean War start? I don't know, and neither do you!" "So this is the first wedding you've ever planned?" "Yeah, and you're wearing a white dress, so we both stretched the truth a little."

"Do I look like a stupid man?" "What?" "Do I look like an idiot? Do I look like a moron? Do I look like a buffoon?" "Hey, no-one's forcing you to go to SuperCuts." "I can never do nothing!" "We're gonna start with a different game tonight. It's called "Bombshells." In the suburbs, it's called "You might wanna sit down for this. It's a shocker." In the hood, it's called "Oh, no you didn't." "At the factory, I deal with ex-cons, substance abusers, and sexual harassers. And I'm not just talking about my mom. "

I knew I'd heard the one about the bar somewhere. This is from "Gilligan's Island." Ginger Grant was Agent 36-24-36. IIRC, the "actor" quotes are from Phil Silvers as Harold Hecuba, doing the musical of "Hamlet."

That's it. I didn't even get a chance to get into the "White Devil" business.

"You know, gingivitis is the number one cause of all tooth decay." "Worry not, my brother. For I will be as a fly on the wall - a grain of salt in the ocean. I will move amongst them like a transparent...THING." "You must be the Monopoly Guy. Thanks for the Free Parking." "This is a lovely room of death." ""Wunderbar!", he exclaimed with great relish." "Equinsu ocha! Equinsu ocha!"

"You know, gingivitis is the number one cause of all tooth decay." "Worry not, my brother. For I will be as a fly on the wall - a grain of salt in the ocean. I will move amongst them like a transparent...THING." "You must be the Monopoly Guy. Thanks for the Free Parking." "This is a lovely room of death."

A list of promises from the beginning, and the reality that unfolded.... -------------------------------------------------------------- Establishes and maintains a positive attitude became "never ever ever say anything less than 100% positive or you will be roundly condemned for "confessing a negative." makes life meaningful became "twi will become your life and assign you meaning- running our classes, attending our meeting, buying our magazine and tapes...." Overcomes worry and fear became "unless you do exactly as we say, the devil will get you in an instant", which means twi'ers inside twi have more worry and fear than everyone else (especially when added to point 1.) Promotes prosperity and health became "you will not dare to admit less than 100% health and prosperity, or we will condemn you and blame you for failing to get either or both" Explains apparent bible contradictions became "you will agree with whatever we say about the Bible, even if that contradicts what we used to teach about it" Develops more harmony in the home became "your family will all carry this out 100% or you will have strife" Enables you to separate truth from error became "what we say is truth, is truth. What we say is error, is error." Disciplines the mind by believing became "believe whatever we say, and ignore anything that contradicts it" Teaches how to pray effectively became "pray the way we say, and if you don't get what you wanted, then you either redefine what you asked for so that it sounds like you got it, or we will blame you"

Enables you to separate truth from error – switches to – accept that whatever twi says is truth, and whatever disagrees with them is error.

[i was thinking how absolutely shameless the remnant of vpw defenders can get, willing to redefine terms, to manufacture things, to sweep anything vpw did under a rug while making up faults of others and magnifying them, all as smoke-screens to try to make their deeds look as evil as vpw's. Then it hit me- part of this is still "regurgitate anything vpw said." vpw was quite fond of denigrating any field he did not understand- with the exceptions of any practitioners who were in twi. Then, suddenly, the field was respectable- and the twi practitioner was called the greatest practitioner in the world. This happened, among other things, with vpw and the fields of Psychology, Psychiatry, and people like Tony C, who appeared on the cover of "Heart" magazine and was interviewed for it. vpw didn't understand Psychology and Psychiatry, so he denigrated them-until Tony C joined twi. BTW, I spoke to Tony a long time ago. He seemed quite reasonable both as a Christian and as a Psychologist. But twi'ers who never read that Heart Magazine or never met Tony were still repeating the twi mantra that Psychology was of no use. It's amazing how many fields of study were useless according to twi. I also heard someone denigrated people who work on the news. Outside of twi circles, it's rather shocking that there are Christians who are ready to dismiss entire fields of Psychology and Psychiatry. It's more shocking when one knows many Christians who practice either, and many more who have been helped by them. In the last 20-30 years alone, some considerable advances have been made in Psychiatry. It's shocking how all the people who denigrate Psychiatry don't even know the main difference between Psychiatry and Psychology. Most people nowadays, including most Christians, are aware there are some chemical imbalances and occasional structural problems in the central nervous systems of a minority of people. "Devil spirits?" No, birth defects and the like. To misdiagnose a problem with someone's biology as "devil spirits" is as sensible as trying to fix a broken arm with "driving the demon out" or the like. A competent Psychiatrist then attempts to rebalance the brain chemistry or otherwise correct the biological problem with medication. Sometimes it takes a lot to get to a solution, sometimes it works pretty soon. Generally, Psychology comes in very handy once the chemicals are balanced- so the person can learn better coping mechanisms and join the rest of us in productive lives. How effective can it be? I knew one Christian who seemed 100% normal and not unusual in any way, who was on psychiatric medication that helped her stay that way. (She seemed more normal than me, certainly.) As for Psychology being of use or other than "devil possession", it's sad that some people don't know any better in an educated society like the US. There's plenty of people- adults, children- who are working with a mental health care professional to help correct problems developing from trauma experienced as an adult, or -more commonly- as a child, and learning to adjust and move on with their lives. If you had a family member or a friend who'd survived abuse as a child and was seeing a Psychologist, you'd be a lot slower to denigrate the help they and thousands of other people get each year. twi certainly could have used a few Psychologists on staff. With vpw and others inflicting psychological damage on people, actually having someone who could try to REPAIR the damage would have helped some people, and may have prevented some suicides of people vpw sent home. Don't forget, it was standard practice for vpw to send anyone home if they had some sort of psychological problem. Putting people alone on a bus is the opposite of actually HELPING them. Small wonder some got lost on the way home, or committed suicide. Trying to make Billy Graham look bad because he lacks vpw's uneducated bias against mental healthcare professionals? That's an under-educated approach, and a rather clumsy attempt to make the man look as evil as vpw. Billy Graham conducted himself as a Christian, and made successful efforts to treat his fellow Christians (and non-Christians) like the Bible says we are supposed to. If you can't tell the difference between people with unclean spirits and people with psychiatric disorders, you have no business discussing EITHER. Some Christians can easily tell them apart. Actually, I've seen non-Christians with no training in Psychology who could tell them apart. If you think the sole function of medication prescribed by Psychiatrists is to "incapacitate the mind", then you have a shocking ignorance of what they do. Rather than incapacitate the patient, the goal- and often it is reached successfully but no medical field is 100% effective- is for the patient to resume normal activities and be a regular, functioning, contributing member of society. I've known Christians for whom that was effective. If you want to limit yourself to the lack of knowledge vpw had on the subject, that's your business, but it's pretty evident to any educated person that it's a glaring deficiency in your education. Which, all things considered, is ANOTHER evil thing vpw did. If vpw hadn't ruthlessly condemned the fields of people who could have helped his victims, more would have gotten help sooner, and fewer would have committed suicide as a direct or indirect result of their exposure to vpw. Not like he cared- what were a few more victims to him? He just made sure to label them and say it was their own weakness and "devil spirits" that killed them, then he went back to making more victims.

Is this Tom Petty's "Refugee"?

I've been wondering if this is "War Games."

In my opinion, you never "got it" about this site, but nobody ever guaranteed everyone would. In fact, it's pretty much expected some people would not. Be excellent to each other anyway.

"Red Ball One, bag is leaking." Hannibal once relayed this message to Murdock. It meant one of the team was injured. In this case, it was BA, and Murdock is the same blood type, thus he needed a transfusion... "Traaaaaashbags! I want traaaaaashbags!" I loved this episode. They infiltrated a prison- Murdock was a psychatric patient, BA was a deaf-mute, Hannibal was his translator, and an effeminate hairdresser, and face was a prison Psychologist, Dr Pepper. Pepper recommended therapy like haircuts, and gut the prison to spring for hairdryers and lawn-chairs as a cheap barber chair. Murdock kept screaming for trashbags all episode, and quieted for a few hours if they gave him one. They escaped the prison by using the hairdryers and trashbags to make hot air balloons, which they attached to the lawnchairs. "The key to any con is to place the mark in a position where he or she thinks reward will come or harm will be avoided if he or she does exactly as told by the conman." "Hey, I couldn't help noticing that jacket's beginning to dry out and crack. Ever try tanning butter?" "Only on pancakes. It tastes pretty yucky." "Huh?" "But it did turn my tongue a nice shade of brown." Murdock's leather pilot jacket. "The bigger they are, The harder they fall." "The bigger they are, the harder they hit!" "It's over, Smith. You lost." "And I was having such a nice day." "Don't worry, he'll give us a minute like he always does." "You have thirty seconds to give up your weapons before we open fire." "Got to give the man credit. He's learning." Hannibal and Stockwell. "What's gonna happen?" "Looks like we're gonna crash." "C'mon, really, what's gonna happen?" "Looks like we're gonna crash. And die." IIRC, the episode Murdock saved a plane by making a controlled crash. It was the one episode BA woke up in the plane.