WordWolf

[vpw put forth that all other Christians were either corrupt, incompetent, or both. He made many claims-all unproven-to "support" this. He called respectable seminaries "cemeteries" and muddled in secular colleges (where "Religion" is treated much like Cultural Anthropology) with respectable colleges where Christian beliefs are expected. In the former, reading AROUND the Bible is standard, in the latter, reading the Bible is required. Since, at most, we'd all encountered Religion classes in a SECULAR university, this was very clever-it suggested to us that ALL education, including Christian education- was anti-Bible. He denigrated the study of OTHERS who'd put years or decades of their lives into studying the Bible, God, church history, church languages, etc, while putting forth that standard practice at twi was to call vpw "Doctor"- which is something respectable PhDs generally do NOT do- and the exceptions tend to be insufferable windbags whose need to hear their titles proudly displays their INSECURITIES for all to see. Furthermore, he didn't even GET a proper, accredited PhD, he got one from an unaccredited institution. He knew the difference- he got his Masters at a respectable place, then went on to get his PhD at a flaky little place with lower standards. (Too much work to EARN a proper PhD?) vpw claimed he parted with his previous denomination over THEIR corruption. Instead, he timed his departure VERY specifically- he had acquired a LOCATION (the farm was deeded to the non-profit, allowing him to use it tax-free), a PRODUCT (Leonard's classes with Stiles' book as the textbook) and was acquiring his own church people before he left his denomination. He was perfectly happy to take their regular paycheck for years while he set up his new organization on the side. That was about 1957, which gave him a few years to work with the land, and polish his presentation of Leonard and Stiles' material while finding Bullinger's work to add to Stiles. The real critical year for vpw was 1953. That was the year he encountered Stiles. Rather than learn from Stiles about The Spirit and serving God, all vpw heard was "here's a textbook nobody's ever heard of, on a subject people want to learn"- and he had it retyped with his own name on it. That was also the year he encountered Leonard. Rather than learn from Leonard about The Spirit and serving God, all vpw heard was "here's a class nobody's ever heard of, on a subject people want to learn"- and he taught it as his own with his name on it. We know the first version was EXACTLY the same because anyone who'd taken Leonard's class was considered-by vpw- to be a grad of HIS class- "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today" (with matching book retyped from Stiles.) Later editions of both included the work of others like Bullinger, and transcripts from the class were typed up to make up the other textbook, the Orange Book. What about 1942? Well, in the early 1970s, vpw BEGAN claiming that in 1942, he heard from God, and God spoke to him with a poorly-worded promise that God should have known better than to say, and confirmed it with a miraculous snowstorm nobody else witnessed, whose details CHANGED depending on when vpw told it (when it happened, what color the snow was...) ] The first one wasn't even told to his WIFE until over 20 years later. When it was first told to others-according to Mrs W- it was in the early 70s to the early Corps. This just happens to be the first people he could invent a story to who would actually take it seriously. Even if some critical details changed when he retold it. The second one was actually checked and didn't happen. When a believer in vpw told him this, he didn't even SUGGEST they might have been mistaken (like any of us if we experienced a blizzard that stopped us in a city) but IMMEDIATELY agreed it didn't happen and suggested angels had gone around and lied to him to make him THINK there was a blizzard. So vpw didn't even STICK to that story when someone pointed out the evidence was that it never happened. [vpw traveled and used the credentials of his organization, and relied on Pillai and Williams to open the doors to him all over "his" tour. vpw reported this as if he was some sort of CELEBRITY with the "doors to the Far East" open to him and being the FIRST Christian to speak before the Jain Convention (which he may never have actually ADDRESSED, only VISITED while Williams addressed it, but who would check his claims half a world away?] [pfal was almost entirely a compilation of work from Leonard, Stiles, Bullinger and a few others (Clarence Larkin.) The few times ANY of them were mentioned (usually Bullinger) it was in a way to make it sound like he came to those conclusions INDEPENDENTLY of Bullinger and others.] [True-and he came back with "adult" materials he used to teach a class on sex to twi'ers. Amazingly, many people now still don't find anything suspicious about that class despite its content, what it does NOT cover, and who was teaching it. We don't have access to the records, but a source I'm unable to name was specific that they did some digging (while IN twi) and found out the denomination disapproved of vpw being a sex maniac and causing some issues with a church secretary. By now, this should surprise no one.]

Ok, let's review. vpw originally went to school and eventually narrowed his possible career choices down to 3: business, music, ministry, eventually selecting ministry. (By his own admission, he did not believe the Bible was The Word of God at the time.) He went to college, and then to Princeton Theological Seminary for his Masters. (That's a respectable seminary that has no connection to Princeton University other than location in Princeton NJ- but to hear lcm say it in public, vpw went to Princeton-with the implication it was the University and not the Seminary.) vpw's area of study was never what he later set himself forth as an authority on- it was HOMILETICS, or PREACHING. He did not focus on Bible languages, history, or any other subject which requires real study time- despite his later claims of making his life about Bible study. His major was "writing sermons and preaching them." He completed his education at an unaccredited organization- Pike's Peak Seminary, which was a LOT easier than trying to graduate with a PhD from, say, Princeton Theological Seminary. He then began preaching- still while not believing the Bible was The Word of God, according to vpw. His claims to being a "remarkable" student begin and end with him playing on the basketball team in high school, and vague comments meant to be interpreted that he was on the college team and playing for the Sheboygan Redskins professional team (he neither was on his college's varsity team nor a member of the Sheboygan Redskins.) He was never-ACADEMICALLY- a noteworthy student. Why is this relevant now? Very simple. vpw made claims about "leadership programs" like the WOW program and the Corps. However, vpw was COMPLETELY UNQUALIFIED to run such a program, let alone set one up. Look at both programs- they are grossly inadequate and very vague. Supervising of them was sporadic and arbitrary, and no CLEAR, CONSISTENT guidelines were ever presented for candidates to either- nor was there even a "vetting" program for either. vpw had never PARTICIPATED in any leadership training program, and had no military training either- not even ROTC. So, what did he base the programs on? His vague notions about such things from popular movies. He claimed to base the Corps on the military at one point- but had no idea how things were there at all. He also claimed the WOW program was a relevant, local type of missionary work (that was the selling point)- but he had no idea how THAT worked, either. He used vague notions of both, added his desire to be worshipped, and made the only "vetting" process "YOU CAN STAY AS LONG AS YOUR MONEY HOLDS" as to whether someone was a viable candidate- and rounded it out with getting free labor from the students- who PAID FOR THE PRIVILIGE of doing manual labor. He made various claims, none of which bear any scrutiny- -this is like what Paul did in Acts -this is based on the military -this is a leadership training program -you can't find better than this in the world etc, etc. The only "professional" part-unless you count the exercise- was when vpw added DALE CARNEGIE SALES CLASSES to the mix. Not training on counseling, not training on management- training in SALES. vpw didn't CARE about how the people were managed, if they ever needed counseling, etc. He wanted the Corps to be effective SALESPEOPLE for twi. Small wonder the Corps program caused lots of problems, released untrained "leaders" who wrecked things, and brought in a tidy profit for twi. Yes, some good people came out of the Corps as well- I hold that to be because they were good people going in and the program was unable to wreck that. In other cases, it WAS able, and in others, people unfit for candidacy had their money so they completed and were assigned places to wreck.

I recommend you read through the 2 "wonderland" threads, "the way:living in wonderland" and "vp and me in wonderland". Sounds like there's a lot on both threads you haven't heard yet.

I was unaware, until today, that he'd said it during lunchtime.

A) I snipped most of the post because nobody was disagreeing with it and I didn't see its direct relevance to the topic. (All Scripture is INdirectly related, but this topic would need thousands of pages if we were going to follow all the indirect discussions no matter how tangential.) If there was a direct relevance, I didn't see the connection. B) How about we get a verse reference for the one thing that directly related to the thread, your quote about "fear and trembling"? Philippians 2:12 KJV 12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. How about other versions on the same verse? Philippians 2:12 NASB 12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12 CEV 12My dear friends, you always obeyed when I was with you. Now that I am away, you should obey even more. So work with fear and trembling to discover what it really means to be saved. What's the context of the verse? Approach the things of God with HUMILITY and grave respect. Philippians 2:1-18 (NASB) 1 Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, 2 make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. 3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. 14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain. 17 But even if I am being poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I rejoice and share my joy with you all. 18 You too, I urge you, rejoice in the same way and share your joy with me. The context of the phrase is HUMILITY, approaching God with an attitude akin to being on your knees before Him. We've been saying that all along. I don't even get what this added to the discussion, except a sort of "I didn't write the book!" comment after presuming the verses suggested we were supposed to be all "AAAAAHHH!" about God. Honestly, Steve, if I thought that was all you could bring to the table, I'd just ignore it, but I know you have so much more to offer. You're trying to communicate something important on your heart, and I think there's a disconnect between your mind and my mind somewhere, whether at the keyboard or wherever.

twi THEMSELVES documented that vpw, as he grew up, REGULARLY vanished when it was time to do his chores and work on the farm. (Seems that whenever he wasn't being watched, he never did what he CLAIMED to do, and had to be watched to be trusted to do ANYTHING.) When he discussed the idea of going into Christian ministry, his own father flatly claimed that was a bad choice because he'd never even put in the effort for something as straightforward as farming. (AS DOCUMENTED BY TWI.) His own brother documented vpw would vanish for hours- then claimed that when Harry himself was unable to see him, vpw was "preaching to the trees"- which was something Billy Graham did. But vpw himself told the corps he was never full of deep spiritual conviction when he was growing up- he was unsure whether to choose business, music, or preaching, according to him. He also was ready, more than once, to give up on ministry, as documented by twi, within his first few years of preaching. Also, he himself (as documented by twi) admitted that his entire decision to be a preacher and his time in school to prepare for that, and his entire first year of preaching, HE DID NOT BELIEVE THE BIBLE WAS THE WORD OF GOD. So, it's plainly obvious that Harry's COVERUP was a lie. vpw ran and hid when it was time to do chores, and he was a lazy farmer. As documented by twi, he REGULARLY claimed that all the kids arriving in twi didn't know how to work. That included "kids" who had already served tours of duty in the US Military. That should raise a few eyebrows- the military puts people to work. By the time any of them had completed Boot Camp, they'd worked harder than vpw had ever worked on the farm. But vpw always claimed they didn't know how to work and he did- which was 2 lies. However, it gave him the opening, the excuse, to put them to work on the farms, for which they PAID for the privilege of doing manual labor. As we can see from this thread, some of the non-military already had practice at working harder on a farm than vpw did. I also think it's cute that vpw was smart enough to occasionally be seen publicly to do some work on the farm. That may have been a show or a few minutes of work, but it went a long way to help cover up his laziness and lies. There's still people who refuse to admit vpw was a lazy bum of a farmer who hypocritically accused others of what he himself did. Even when it was completely false when applied to them.

I know he stated that PRIVATELY when someone asked him. I don't think it was stated PUBLICKLY. (Remember, vpw used ONE face for the public and AT LEAST ONE MORE in private. So, he could be more candid in private.) What I had been told of lcm's selection was that it was like Acts 1 and the lots were cast for him. This, of course, was a complete LIE, since actually people said they thought someone ELSE was a better choice-Walter, etc. vpw had lcm picked YEARS in advance. (See "vp and me".) vpw then told everyone to submit their recommendations to deceive them. If we had known lcm was picked purely because he hopped whenever vpw said "frog", then we would have had a strong clue we needed to look deeper into things. vpw passed along the teachings of others concerning the spirit- Stiles, Leonard, Bullinger- but in PRACTICE never UNDERSTOOD them and certainly didn't PRACTICE them. Oh, he occasionally PRETENDED he did, but the more we look into things, the more that becomes OBVIOUSLY a SHAM. The man demonstrated speaking in tongues with the same sentence every time. He not only was faking it, he wasn't even trying hard to fake it because his audience was ready to disbelieve any evidence he was lying. He faked what he claimed was the FOUNDATION for 9 manifestations. If he faked the FOUNDATION, the entire STRUCTURE was faked or flawed. That's why the Advanced class has a lot of lofty talk, but no demonstrations of divine power. ========================= What did I expect? I expected truly ADVANCED material- deep, profound stuff I'd need to struggle to keep up with. I had a notepad and prepared to take notes and record my notes with comments between the classes so I could study them later in much greater detail. However, the material was a LOT lighter than expected. Tellingly, even cg commented-when running it in Gartmore- that we were covering some basic things- but he was very clever. He made it sound like we WOULD have covered more Advanced material, but the students needed a brush-up on some things instead. Rather than jump into instructions on healing in greater detail, we spent entire sessions on "God loves you" "God heals you". Supposedly, that was the fault of the students who failed to arise sufficiently to just jump in after a few minutes of instruction. Also, what instruction there WAS, was heavy on intellectual factoids and very light on practicality of healing. I've gotten some more insightful comments SECOND-HAND from a Christian nurse who explained healing-to someone who was passing along what she remembered the nurse saying. The Advanced class is built up as incredibly deep and insightful, as being the class for those who have "arrived", so to speak. Compared to what is CLAIMED, what is DELIVERED is actually quite a disappointment. By now, this should be no surprise- twi's practice has regularly been to use the sizzle to sell the steak- then to put cheap burgers on the plates and claim that it's sirloin steak and that anyone who doesn't understand that isn't "spiritual." That's pretty much how it does EVERYTHING.

After 227 pages, one might expect that.

There might be, but the Theater District in Manhattan has never been called "New York, New York" to my recollection. I give up. This one was "42nd Street" and that quote is on the top 100 most famous movie quotes. Someone else post one.

Technically, that other song was "Karn Evil 9, First Impression, Part 2." First Impression, Part 1 has the lines "Step inside, hello! We've the most amazing show..." First Impression Part 2 makes sense knowing that, since it begins "Welcome BACK my friends, to the show that never ends..." Nobody asked of course. (And I don't know the current song.) Carry on, all.

Ever seen a movie or show about the Theater District in Manhattan? Or heard a song with such a name?

"I'm sorry. You'll have to come back later. I'm doing the dishes." "Who dropped a whole truckload of fizzies into the varsity swim meet? Who delivered the medical school cadavers to the alumni dinner?" "There were blanks in that gun!" "I didn't even point the gun at him!" "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

A) I like this. It works on a number of levels without adding anything useless. I think even George Mueller would have liked this. B) vpw would have reproved you. He was rather specific that you would HAVE TO "operate discerning of spirits" FIRST- and used his supposed experience where the minister was "white as a sheet" because the spirit smacked him when he tried to minister to the other person.

This one's obviously about a show, and is named after a famous place...

THIRD edition. The 1st edition mentioned a man (Stiles) but didn't name him. By the THIRD edition, he wasn't mentioned. ============== When it comes to offshoots, the more "official" versions don't mention vpw anywhere except off-the-record, and otherwise are very vague on sources like vpw. The less "official" ones often deify vpw and make him sound like when he died, he ascended to the right hand of God.

"I'm sorry. You'll have to come back later. I'm doing the dishes." "Who dropped a whole truckload of fizzies into the varsity swim meet? Who delivered the medical school cadavers to the alumni dinner?"

*grabs fire extinguisher and sprays Human w/o bean*

vpw and twi'ers in general spend too much time crowing about what they know (knew) and not enough time admitting they need to learn more. (Independent of needing to "know" some things by DOING.) One example is the teachings on David's "battle" with Goliath. The classic sling, in the hands of a trained user, is a deadly weapon- one more dangerous at close ranges than the bow and arrows. It can do more damage and subsequent shots can be launched faster. it's a cheaper weapon and more easily portable. (It lacks the longer ranges, and cannot be used from concealment, which bows and crossbows can.) Shepherds used the sling both to get the attention of a sheep (fling a stone in front of one to get his attention) and to avoid boredom (like any kid with an airgun and a tin can.) David's best chance lay with any deadly weapon he actually had experience with. However, I wouldn't have given much for the odds for any fighter using sling OR bow against a fully armored, helmed and shielded warrior preparing to close the distance and impale him on a spear. Frankly, I wouldn't give much for the chances of hitting the man in the head where the helmet was not covering, while he was moving and while he had a shield. It was akin to shooting a coin thrown into the air. Carry on, everyone. Offshoots of twi tend to retain all the toxic, harmful and dysfunctional behavior- except for specific points they address, then announce they cleaned up "EVERYTHING." So, the differences between the offshoots (splinters off the tree no matter who has run them) is the type of injury and the specific harmful teachings or behavior in use. If you want to avoid the SAME injuries people got in twi, avoid ALL the twi-trained "leaders." As someone posted once, if you want to give up gambling, you don't switch from poker to slot machines- you get out of the casino. I've seen plenty of splinters/offshoots brag about how excellent they are, and seen commercials from people who say THEIRS is the best and not harmful. And they all have been MORE harmful than a lot of local churches wherever I go.

That WAS a "delusion of grandeur." There were plenty of people who had SOME talent. In twi, the usual dash was that twi'ers were "THE GREATEST" and that they were the equal of the very best outside twi. CR was an excellent singer, but there's lots of excellent singers. Ever see the semi-finals on "American Idol" or any equivalent show, any season, any COUNTRY? There's lots of singers with an equal level of talent, and lots of singers with MORE talent. Furthermore, there's a lot of competition to even APPLY to the Metropolitan Opera Company (the House doesn't employ singers, but the Company performs at the House.) CR might even have gotten to apply. Unless she's improved dramatically, it's unlikely she would have made that PARTICULAR cut. She could probably make a career out of singing somewhere with less competition-but less fame in the name. Whatever happened to more truthful speech, like "We have some excellent people who do well and we are proud of their performance abilities. We showcase them when we have the opportunity"? But from the beginning, vpw made it twi practice that wild claims were to be used whenever they couldn't be checked for accuracy. Yeah, lcm learned to make wild claims from vpw, and was a lot more blatant and overt about it. He made some of them into policy decisions- which meant Delusions of Grandeur were making POLICY. That's a recipe for destruction. Small wonder people RAN from twi and lcm ended up in court. If twi had lesser lawyers, lcm might have spent time in prison. Yeah, making up claims nobody ever made is hard for some people to resist. When someone claimed others were saying "vpw sinned and therefore did no good", I made a poll for it and a thread. NOBODY said that was their position, even ANONYMOUSLY. BTW, please don't confuse "vpw sinned"-which is true for everybody except JC- with "vpw womanized, raped, drugged, stole, plagiarized, was an arrogant, abrasive self-serving raging alcoholic sob who pretended to be an apostle or prophet, and had delusions of godhood." Don't belittle vpw's accomplishments. vpw worked VERY HARD at womanizing, raping, theft, plagiarizing, self-service, alcoholism, and impersonation of various ministries, and worked fairly hard at the drugging and delusions of godhood. Acknowledge EVERYTHING he did-don't just cherry-pick the ones you like. (I acknowledge the ones I like and dislike, both.)

Sometimes I found the slow, meticulous study to be exciting. Not always, but sometimes. When I read I Corinthians 15 in an Interlinear for the first time, I understood it better than in the KJV. So, I reread it slower, and tried to express how exciting it was to the people around me at that moment. (I might as well have been speaking Swahili. I may have read the translation FROM the Greek, but it was still "Greek" to them.) vpw's excitement was in finding the work of others to memorize and pretend it was HIS OWN work. Mine is often in learning something new, and the difference there should be obvious. He PRETENDED that was his interest, but frauds are commonplace. ========================= In other news, I don't know if the definition of "research" as "reading again", as in "research" means "rereading everything with vpw's name on it" began with vpw, but it certainly was INSINUATED to a number of people, and after leaving twi, found a LEADER who left who suggested rereading vpw's books were always to be recommended over actually doing our own study and finding something on our own. I ignored that, because I agreed with the idea that we were supposedly learning to use the Concordance and read for ourselves, learn the principles of Bible research, etc, all so we could actually APPLY them. I imagine he'd give a different answer now, he's had a few decades to come to his senses, and lots of data has been made available.

It's not that hard for me to recognize characters named "Wolf", once I've actually seen the movie they're in. :) Plus, I remember what Marcellus Wallace looks like. This is "Pulp Fiction." The fascinating part of the movie to me is the verisimilitude of the thing. At moments, it feels like we're looking in on everyday conversations between the characters.

"Sawyer, you're going out a youngster, but you've got to come back a star!"

Oh, I'm sure he never regretted his well-orchestrated sin structures and executions of sin. What he lamented was his supposed IMPERFECTION- not that people actually were hurt, and not that he'd let down God Almighty. I was thinking of a poster here having seen vpw in the last day of his life, while he was lamenting only that he was flawed SOMEHOW but couldn't figure out HOW. And if that statement isn't proof of a Delusion of Grandeur, nothing is.