WordWolf

From time to time, we got up on what seemed an average day and...... nothing happened. vpw and company then celebrated a great victory. They'd made up some horrible disaster coming up. When it didn't happen, twi'ers stopped it from happening with their great believing. www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/148-vpw-superman-green-lantern/ "I was told, back in 1989, one of the reasons there were problems after vpw's death was that, as a direct result of his death, "that huge network of believing vanished." That is, an ex-corpse person, who was in "active rebellion" against twi's draconian statements in 1989, had said that during vpw's life, his believing, and his believing ALONE, acted like a huge net over the entire USA, thwarting the devil like some huge construct of Green Lantern's ring. Once vpw died, it vanished, forcing the rest of us mortals to deal with things as best we could." ================================ "In 1976 I attended my first ROA's in Sydney Ohio. I remember the WOW's with whom we travelled saying that VP does not sleep during this whole entire event. He was so 'spiritually' wired that he was awake for the whole 4 days, praying and teaching and meeting needs..." ================================== "It was TWI that caused the fall if the Soviet Union. If it had not been for Wierwille's stand on the Word countless countries would have fallen to communism, California would have slipped off into the Pacific Ocean, and we would all now be speaking Russian..." ================================== "When Squeaky From went to shoot the President and her gun did not fire, it was because VP had the foresight to send WOW's there that day. Because of the WOW's presence, under the direction of VP, our President was saved." ================================ "God told VP to put WOW's on the San Andres fault in California. This prevented the HUGE earthquake which otherwise would have happened. I recall someone in CA said something bad about TWI and VP said, "I should just take my WOW's off the fault and see what happens to them." ==================================== "Did you know that TWI prevented the certain overthrow of the USA by all the witnessing we did and by the production and promotion of America Awakes? It was all going to happen by the bi-centennial in 1976. Heck, I still have my copy of "The Secret new Constitution" which had been drafted by the evil powers, the Catholic church being foremost among them! America Awakes drove back the spirit power. Our country was saved! Thank God all those WOW's signed up. Just in the nick of time. Their door to door and street witnessing changed destiny! A more recent example in TWI II was Y2K. Quote from LCM and other leaders: "It was the preparation on the household of The Way that kept anything from happening." ============================= I recall them discussing that Richard Nixon had a plan to eliminate states and instead divide the country into regions. It was all in preperation of the "take over". I remember storing food in the early 70's when I was frightened of a "take over" the first time by TWI. And yes we all stood on the WORD and stopped the evil! ============================ What about the story that it was a Corps Prayer meeting lead by VP that resulted in the death of Vice President Nelson Rockefeller. The story goes that he was the lead conspirator in the drive to replace the Constitution and that the prayers of VP and the Corps (Superman and the Justic League) brought the hand of the Lord down upon him. =========================== This one isn't in the Superhero category, but I remember being told that VP prayed for each W.O.W. Ambassador each day. The year I went, there were over 3,000! I remember wondering how the heck he could find time to pray for 3,000 individuals each day. It was because he was SUPERspiritual, no doubt. =========================

I agree that vpw was an extreme narcissist, in addition to sociopathic. The narcissism, in short, says that the world revolves around HIM. The sociopathic patterns say that others are insignificant insects and merely things to be used, manipulated, etc. Narcissism is what causes things like the explosion at people and storming off, i.e. "How dare they have lives that don't revolve around my every word!" He was pricked in his vanity and stormed off to salve it. Sociopathic behavior is when there's things like the OTHER incidents- where he's chatting casually with someone, suddenly verbally attacks someone else, then resumes his place chatting. He saw nothing wrong, nor NOTEWORTHY about just blasting someone for no real reason, since they didn't matter to him- he felt NOTHING about them. He didn't need to catch his breath and pause to resume chatting because the yelling was merely surface behavior, and his heart was absent from it- as it was from the chatting. Interaction between him and other people was always some sort of acting, staged in part, because he PRETENDED to care, PRETENDED to be stern, etc. Since sometimes it was one thing, sometimes it was the other, you could never predict with 100% accuracy which pathology would shape his behavior at any moment from among the two.

Oh, one from Column A, one from Column B. vpw was OPPORTUNISTIC. He saw an ad for a class, went and bullied his way into the class, then plagiarized it and charged money for it, calling it "his" class. He met a man who understood The Spirit, read his book, then had it retyped and charged money for it, calling it "his" book. He read an article about preaching being an up-and-coming field, and he went into preaching. He read an article about young Christians in a sexually-permissive environment, went and impressed them using material from the class and book, and co-opted their ministries into his own, calling them "his kids." He once claimed that the "night owls" began BY ACCIDENT, and I think that was true. He went to relax after an evening teaching, and people, excited, came over to talk to them. This provided a great INFORMAL opportunity to indoctrinate and pass on his opinions on many subjects. Eventually, he formalized them, dividing them into night owls and hoot owls (AFTER MIDNIGHT), and made them a more FORMAL opportunity to indoctrinate. But at first, it developed organically, then vpw came along and formalized it, strangling the life out of it. Pretty much the same scenario as he did with everything else.

Naten brought it up. He seems to think- and correctly, IMHO- that the Goodness of God is tied up with His conduct, and that this relates directly to whether or not an explanation is needed or warranted to account for what Bullinger and others explained this way. However, I'll spin it off or revive an old topic, whichever works. (If we discussed this ever.)

(I'll address the rest later. I'm in a hurry right now.}

You might want to expand your search parameters. This was just off the top of my head. KJV Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. And those same verses in the CEV? Matthew 19:17 Contemporary English Version (CEV) 17Jesus said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? Only God is good. If you want to have eternal life, you must obey his commandments." Mark 10:18 Contemporary English Version (CEV) 18Jesus replied, "Why do you call me good? Only God is good.

Once upon a time, twi was depicted as groovy, cool, hip and edgy, the opposite of fossilized, dry religion. Today, all twi HAS is fossilized, dry religion.

I'd also like to point out that the exemplar of "leading with the first thought" because "the first thought is always from God" was lcm, and examples include "God's Word is now over the world" and "All corps will now go full-time" and others of his boondoggles.

It's a children's song. Someone pointed out once that a number of things were all a part of treating twi'ers like children and vpw as the sole father-figure.

First of all, this should be in DOCTRINAL, because this is about DOCTRINE, and is clearly not "ABOUT THE WAY." So, I'll ask the mods to move this thread. As for Spong himself, I'd have more respect if he just came right out and said he wasn't a Christian- or even a THEIST, as he denies anything that gives either term meaning. So, he denies the fall of man, Theism, miracles in the Bible, the sacrificial substitution of The Cross, Jesus' resurrection AND ascension, the Bible as any type of authoritative book, and the efficacy of prayer. I had more in common with Christianity when I was young and stupid, and rejected all of Christianity and the Bible. I still believed there WAS one God, but didn't think I knew anything about Him other than that He was The Creator. I was still, technically, a theist. In other news, Spong's been unconscionably sloppy in his theology in all sorts of subjects. In a quick search of his name, I found someone providing evidence against a different flat claim of his- that the Biblical account of Jesus' burial was historically unlikely. http://www.shroudsto...g-on-burial.htm "The probable fate of the crucified Jesus was to be thrown with other victims into a common, unmarked grave. The general consensus of New Testament scholars is that whatever the Easter experience was, it dawned first in the minds of the disciples who had fled to Galilee for safety, driving us to the conclusion that the burial story in the gospels is … legendary … " Reply: "...unquestionably, by the pattern of your argument, you want us to accept that the consensus of New Testament scholars think that Jesus was not buried in a tomb. That is certainly not true and you know it, Bishop John Shelby Spong." (Several quotes follow, refuting Spong's claims- including quotes from Jesus Seminar writers who otherwise would agree with Spong that the Bible is outdated and archaic.) This whole article comes from the position that intelligent, educated people can't possibly be fundamentalist Christians of ANY type- despite quite a number being just that, including rocket scientists and notables like Sir Isaac Newton. It ASSUMES that the 2 can't be reconciled, and derides anyone who has attempted to reconcile them and succeeded. That's the kind of thinking that STIFLES scientific innovation- the notion that answers might NOT be somewhere just out of my immediate reach, and someone else might find them today, or I might find them tomorrow, and we might all need to re-evaluate our thinking next month because of what we learn today. By ASSUMING one has arrived at the ONE answer, one stops the search for deeper knowledge. The writer may accuse the Christians of being close-minded, but he's exposing his own bigotry and narrow-mindedness in the process.

Substituting the passive tense with an active tense is what it is, and in this SPECIFIC case, it means turning PERMISSION into INITIATION. The average person who understands the figure would never recognize it as "idiom of permission."

{b]I'd like to have a discussion on the actual topic. You know, the one where we discuss what the Bible says and what the Bible means. Quite a few DIVERSE groups who actually care about the Bible render "fear of God" as a concept COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the modern meaning of "fear". We could discuss that, or we could discuss why some Bibles use words like "respect" when translating "phobos"- and that's not the work of ex-twi'ers. However, it seems this thread just can't progress without one of the posters being determined to keep introducing and RE-introducing vpw into the discussion, and refuting the claims that everyone already agrees are refuted. Is this because the poster is trying to fog the issue by misrepresenting the others? I strongly doubt it. Is the poster unable to approach this subject without it revolving around vpw? I'm seeing sufficient evidence to believe it's that rather than something else. Can someone signal me when (if) this thread can depart from revolving around vpw for at least 2 pages straight?[/b]

======================== "Let's make sure that history never forgets the name...Enterprise." "Federation ship Enterprise, surrender and prepare to be boarded." "That will be the day." "Mr Castillo?" "Yes, Captain?" "Inform the crew - we're going back!" "A warrior's drink!" "Military log, combat date 43625.2."

I DID, but it probably would have taken MANY quotes to hit one that would have intersected what little I know about the episode- draining phasers for power for a shuttle.

Hook Robin Williams Hamlet (Branagh version) (There's quite a cast to choose from in that version.}

You'll guess correctly. You're up!

My ability to name TOS episodes is not impressive. I currently don't know much about this episode, and what I DO know wasn't in a quote. ======================== Ok, next round. "Let's make sure that history never forgets the name...Enterprise."

"It has been established that persons who have recently died have been returning to life and committing acts of murder. A widespread investigation of funeral homes, morgues, and hospitals has concluded that the unburied dead have been returning to life and seeking human victims. It's hard for us here to be reporting this to you, but it does seem to be a fact."

My usual rule of thumb (not an official rule of the thread AFAIK) is that the quote may be recognized by someone who never saw the movie. I'm fairly sure I could have gotten this from "laces out" if I was in the right frame of mind, but even the longer quote wouldn't have gotten me to "ACE VENTURA PET DETECTIVE" if I'd never seen it.

White Men Can't Jump Wesley Snipes Demolition Man

In his book, "vp and me", lcm said he went to University of Kansas, which is geographically dead-center in the continental US. He described himself as looking for answers, for being essentially uncommitted when in college- not a "rising star" of any denomination.... which is more honest because his skills as a Christian were sorely deficient when he met vpw and he had NO leadership experience which is why he bumbled and bungled his way through twi, surviving because vpw valued blind loyalty and lickspittles more than results. I've seen a rising star in a denomination, in college (while HE was in college), and he is nothing like the young lcm, who made his reputation as a dumb jock and never rose above DUMB jock.

I know that some among you are going to try to just rationalize away what's been said. So, I'll lay some things out for you, and you can see them for yourself. A) According to twi's own books, Mrs W said that vpw never EVER mentioned the supposed 1942 Promise (when he supposedly learned from God) from 1942 to the early 1970s. Is there any married Christian ANYWHERE who would hear a major message from God and conceal it from his or her spouse for DECADES, then reveal it first to other people? Come on, if he REALLY heard from God, he'd have to tell SOMEONE, and his spouse would hear as soon as was possible (as in "next time they spoke".) B) vpw's accounts of this vary. According to "The Way:Living in Love", this was the most important day of his entire life, and the supposed snow he saw made everything WHITE. According to "Born Again to Serve", the supposed snow he saw made the sky BLACK because it was so thick. Did the snow switch from white to black, or did he forget what happened the most important day of his life, or did he lie and improve the lie as he went along? C) Supposedly, vpw claims that God spoke to vpw, and God promised vpw that He (God) would teach His Word to him (vpw) as it had not been known since the first century, if he (vpw) would teach it to others. This can't possibly be a message the REAL God gave someone. It would have to either be a LIE, or be a message from the devil, who lied when he gave it. Why? First of all, nothing vpw taught to others was UNKNOWN SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY. It can ALL be traced to OTHER CHRISTIANS, which means it had been known by them and by their students before vpw claimed he heard from God Almighty. So, this promise FAILS. Second of all, how was God's Word known in the first century? Well, a layman or someone with inadequate education (like a major in Homiletics rather than Church History or something related) could think this was a valid thing to compare to vpw's teachings. They are completely unrelated. The 1st century Christians DID NOT HAVE THE COMPLETE BIBLE. The New Testament was still circulating while it was copied by hand, one at a time, around the known world. vpw teaches the Church Epistles, which were not widely disseminated until the 2nd century AD. The 1st century Christians DID NOT STUDY- which is the mainstay of vpw's Christianity and how to excel thereby. The 1st century Christians knew God BY EXPERIENCE, and in the face of their persecution. Their teachings were often very practical, and in power, not study. The 1st century Christians were DE-CENTRALIZED. vpw did his best to consolidate all decisions into his own hands. Either vpw heard a promise from a God who makes mistakes, or vpw heard a promise from a God who lies, or vpw lied and he never heard from God. Take your pick- but based on other proven lies, I think the last one is the only real possibility. If vow heard from the devil and can't tell the difference, vpw is not ready to try to teach others- he needs to learn the fundamentals himself. If vpw heard from a God that makes mistakes, I don't want to learn about such a "God". And one last thing: If you think it's better to call God a liar or incompetent rather than say a man is- even if that man is vpw- then you really need to re-examine your beliefs and structure.

pg-199 & 200. quote: "The next morning, I still hadn't left town. I went to breakfast at the hotel, sat down next to a straight guy. He looked me over and recognized me. He began, 'Aren't you the Evangelical and Reformed preacher who spoke in tongues last night?' I said, 'Yes, but it was a damn lie.' Then he said he knew I was dam*ed because I cussed. That ended our conversation. Then a woman came over to me, and said, 'I think God sent a man here to meet your need. Meet me at 9am.' I thought, 'Women never tell the truth.' But then I reconsidered, since I was stuck in town anyway. So I decided to meet her. I got to the place she said at 9am, and there she was. She introduced me to a man named J.E. Stiles. He'd com in from the West Coast. A few days before, God had told him to go to Tulsa to minister the holy spirit to one man. We talked for a few minutes, and he suggested we gointo the rally to hear Oral Roberts and then meet for lunch. So that's what we did. At lunchtime Stiles came in with his wife and the pianist. I just remember thinking to myself, 'There aren't going to be any women around when I get the holy spirit.' I was just watching and waiting. Lunch was kind of light talk- we talked about Oral Roberts, the Holy Spirit, lots of stuff. When we were done, I picked up the check, and then Stiles turned to his wife and said, 'Honey, I'm going with VP.' She said something to him like, 'How long will you be?' And he said, 'That's none of your business.' That was it, and my opinion of him as a man went up 99 percent. His stature increased in my eyes. just from the way he handled her."

vpw's lifelong specialty was "the gift of gab." He considered a number of careers, and settled on the one that allowed him to get by most with clever speeches. Despite that, he admitted he was ready to quit on ministry a few times in the first year or so. That might be because his entire commitment was based on something OTHER than believing the Bible. He supplemented his "sizzle" by adding "steak"- the work of Leonard, Stiles and Bullinger (and others.) He claimed it was all his own work, and that the reason we'd heard better from him than elsewhere was that elsewhere, it was IMPOSSIBLE and that only HE really cared about the Bible and what God wanted and had NO agenda, and that he and only he had a special connection with God unique for about 2000 years. We believed some or all of it partly because we didn't imagine someone would lie so blatantly, especially representing God. We didn't consider legitimate Bible teaching might have been REGURGITATED from other sources (Stiles, Bullinger, Leonard, Larkin, Kenyon, etc) and presented by a liar/cheat/conman/Lord Over God's Heritage. We've shown all of that was one lie after another, and yet there's STILL people who go around making those very claims. They're AFRAID to grow up spiritually. They're AFRAID to see UNPLEASANT truths. They care more about "a good feeling" (like you can get on any therapist's couch, according to vpw) than about Truth.

*checks "the way:Living in Wonderland* Winter of 1951. I wonder when I started confusing that. Makes a lot more sense. Having him meet Stiles and Leonard in the same year never seemed quite right to me. He had the book, then began teaching Leonard's class, then had Stiles' book retyped and printed in-house to supplement Leonard's class. Now the order makes sense. ========== Thanks for the kudos. We all add to the whole as suits our talents. I rely on people like Oakspear to provide additional analysis when I text-dump, catching details I missed when I was typing.