WordWolf

[Actually, MR AP, I explained that in the first post of the thread. "It's not meant to be a discussion of Doctrine- feel free to revive the Doctrinal thread or start a new one if you want to explore the doctrinal implications. This is about the mechanics of "free vocalization", what it is and is not. I think this is a subject worth discussing by itself- that got buried in a previous discussion addressing a lot more. So, I've meant to start this thread for some time." It's neither DOCTRINAL (nor religious nor theological) nor ABOUT THE WAY (its about the practice done by actors, small children, etc.) This practice has been called "baby talk" and "gibberish" in different contexts, but also "free vocalization" when someone wanted a more proper term to discuss the practice. It's more respectful, and lacks the pejorative elements the other phrases contain.] [by saying I was diverging completely from Doctrinal to discuss something completely independent of Doctrine, yes, the discussion started with doctrine but I felt an entirely separate discussion of exactly this was called for, and we can clearly discuss specifically this practice- those of us who honestly want to and not attempt to drag it off-topic.] [Less than a page in, and it seems you didn't get what the thread's about. It's been clearly explained above. Rather than repost everything a few lines below where they were posted, I'll just recommend re-reading it slower and paying attention. I was clear and stayed on-topic, and the same was true of waysider.] [Allan, sounds like you want to take the one thread SPECIFICALLY designed to AVOID DOCTRINE, and take it OFF-TOPIC into Doctrine. There's an entirely other thread in Doctrine already about that. This thread is valuable all on its own, discussing non-Doctrinal things. I would rather you not attempt to rob it of its focus and uniqueness by making it a duplicate of an existing thread.] [if you have a post that actually addresses "free vocalization" without being specifically Doctrinal or About the Way, PLEASE repost it here, or link it and I'll do so. (Providing it actually isn't Doctrinal or About the Way.) We have threads in those fora about those things already, this is intentionally separate. And, rather than bury this discussion deep in a separate discussion, I thought it was valuable all on its own and deserved to be available on its own. It appears waysider, at least, agreed with me.] [This thread, rather specifically, is about discussing "FREE VOCALIZATION", a practice common OUTSIDE OF TWI. This practice is not "About the Way." It's about a practice of small children and aspiring actors. This practice is not about "Doctrine." I know the posters CAN understand this, and most do. Those who REFUSE to understand this are doing so INTENTIONALLY, since I do not accept they're too stupid to see the difference when the CONTENT of the thread is otherwise. Then again, we're probably getting people SKIPPING THE CONTENT OF THE POSTS and then posting and objecting to both the thread and the posts. That's intellectually dishonest as well as dishonorable.]

In case they wanted to discuss this also, here's this thread bumped with the others.

Bumped up for those who wanted to re-discuss this.

Bumped up for those interested in re-discussing this.

Sounds like "Love, American Style." I'll be back by Saturday morning, if not sooner. Feel free to take it if you can't wait that long.

*Raf stops singing, WW wakes up* "Come On, Let's Go", Ritchie Valens.

That's it.

....and there's no distinct pattern of WHICH posters get respect. Some of the younger, not-in-long posters get as much respect-or more- than some posters who were all over the programs long ago. Personally, I like anonymity. I prefer to rely on my own communications and any facts I can bring to the table rather than any credentials I can bring to the table.

"Masquerading as a man with a reason. My charade is the event of the season And if I claim to be a wise man, Well, it surely means that I don't know." (I'll be out of reach for a day, so if you're patient, I'll be back Thursday afternoon.)

I don't have time to get into this now. However, here's the verses for reference. ============================= John 21:12-19 (NASB) 12 Jesus *said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” None of the disciples ventured to question Him, “Who are You?” knowing that it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came and took the bread and *gave it to them, and the fish likewise. 14 This is now the third time that Jesus was manifested to the disciples, after He was raised from the dead. 15 So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Tend My lambs.” 16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.” 17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus said to him, “Tend My sheep. 18 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go.” 19 Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, “Follow Me!” ==================================== John 12:12-19 (KJV) 12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord. 13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise. 14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. 15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. 19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. ============================= 12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” None of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. 14 This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead. 15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?” “Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.” 16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.” 17 The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep. 18 Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.” 19 Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, “Follow me!” =================================

Certainly no names, but yes, let's not get into him or anyone else who posted some rather "controversial" posts. =================== What did I change position on, TLC? The most blatant "I changed my mind because of this thread" stuff was probably the result of the "Speaking in Tongues" threads. But really, we're way off-topic. Ask me and I can find some links to those threads.

For the other, "A Fish Tale" was the name for the US release. Odd, since the title was "Help, I'm a Fish!" from when it was made and released in Denmark.

Knowing how this thread goes, probably something from the 50s or 60s.

Ok, the lightbulb finally lit. "Roam", by the B-52s.

At least, I'd agree with you on that. I've ended up changing my position on a number of things largely because discussions here showed too many things on the other side, and mostly conviction on the side I preferred. (Ask me and I'll post examples.) Mind you, they weren't what I consider the biggest issues- the existence of God, salvation, and so on- but you might have come to the same conclusions based on the same discussions. (They're still here as threads.) BTW, there's a LOT of disagreement here, so the idea that there's a "party line" is more of an idea and a perception than a reality. Except almost all the current posters agree about the harm that vpw did, and that it was due to his freewill decisions to do the wrong things for his own benefit that the harm existed. You missed the poster who elevated vpw's materials above the Bible and said THAT had the key to salvation. Now, HE really got static.

the Expendables Sylvester Stallone Demolition Man

It's hard to take you seriously when you address a serious subject like authorship of the books of the Bible, and dismiss it with a glib comment and then a change of subject. You're getting people with VERY different opinions and points of view, who DISagree with each other on many of the most fundamental points, to start agreeing that you're ducking issues and pretending you're not. Ever consider that all of them found common ground on this because they're all correct?

Superman Returns Kevin Spacey the Usual Suspects

"Swordfish?"

I don't think Booster KNOWS that. It was a plot-point that time travelers who know your origin can try to go back and erase you. I liked the "Welcome Back Kotter" rerun on TV. I personally would have liked to have seen a woman spinning in place with a light-flash obscuring her instead! DC has the rights to that one, I think... While we watched, I accompanied the Jax/Stein disagreement with "I ain't getting on no plane, Hannibal!" when he collapsed. Jax didn't see it coming, but we did. I saw it by the time the glasses were raised- Mrs Wolf expected it sooner. Mrs Wolf thinks the Dr Who references are too transparent, but then, she's a Whovian. Ok, Ray doesn't always walk around with the armor, but can't he walk around carrying SOME gadget in case of trouble? (BTW, other than 1 Agent Carter, we're caught up on TV at this moment, and I'm trying to fill in my Marvel movie holes- which should be done when I finish 'Winter Soldier.' We just watched "Ant-Man" and I caught "Thor 2" and began Cap 2, I just saw the mention of Dr Strange.)

Go ahead, George.

"Doctor Strangelove?" It certainly sounds like someone who learned to stop worrying and love the bomb....

That line of "reasoning" was what was used to belittle abortion, and was useful when trying to pressure a woman to have an abortion to remain in a program. The bludgeon that was used on her was the idea that she made a commitment to God Almighty when she agreed to enter the program, and to back out was to wuss out on God Almighty, and a later bludgeon was that people who did that were dung and trash and worthless.

It's a short hop between "funny" and "mean." This thread may have hopped across already.

The GSC STILL has posters representing a variety of positions, often contradicting each other. When one begins to think it's all in agreement, another look, much slower, is warranted.