WordWolf

Albert Einstein Professor Max Krassman Tomas de Torquemada Dr Richard H. Thorndyke Moses Professor Van Helsing

Of course. Go.

"How ironic, Tony! Trying to rid the world of weapons, you gave it its best one ever! And now, I'm going to kill you with it!"

Oh, and yes, George. You have a plethora.

Albert Einstein Professor Max Krassman Tomas de Torquemada

Ok, here's some old kids shows, all science-fiction in setting, all 70s in origin. Name any one to get the round. A) This post-WW3 Saturday morning offering featured young scientists exploring what's left of Earth in a high-tech RV/lab. It rather prominently featured a functioning JETPACK used during episodes. Filmation did this one, and the nose of this vehicle was used in some other live-action 70s stuff they did. It was named after their large travel vehicle. B) This space show also appeared on Saturday mornings. Set in the future, it took place on an asteroid, and had young scientists learning about the universe. Their "SEEKER" vehicles had a nose that Filmation used in some other work they did around that time. Jonathan Harris and Brian Tochi were part of the principal cast, and acted alongside the robot "Peepo." "ORACO!" ("Orders Received And Carried Out.") It was named after their off-Earth school. C) This Saturday morning space show was set on the same asteroid, but was only vaguely related to the other show. It had a lead hero, and used more macho "Starfire" vehicles rather than the SEEKERs (almost all the time.) His tiny robot, designated "W1K1" was called "Wiki." Sid Haig played the bad guy, and the principal cast included JAMES DOOHAN. It was done in the old "movie serial" format and was usually part of a larger show with cartoons. It was named after the hero and his organization. D) This show aired in the afternoon, and was from Sid & Marty Kroft. It had Chuck Mc Cann and Bob Denver as NASA employees who accidentally fly into space while loading food into a ship. (One of them was told to press "lunch" and he pressed "launch" instead.) The other main character was played by Patty Maloney, actress and dwarf. She played "Honk", an alien who communicated with horn-honk sounds and was usually smarter than the 2 humans. Its forgettable name referenced the distance traveled and the level of sanity exhibited by the 2 human leads. E) This Sid & Marty Kroft show aired in both daytime and Saturday morning slots. It featured Jim Nabors and Ruth Buzzi as 2 androids and their space/time vehicle, unable to return to the present and deposit 2 people from the present back in their correct time. In the process, they visited Earth and Earth colonies in the past and future, in adventures that were heavy-handed social commentaries. (Hey, it was the 70s and that was no surprise.) It was named after the vehicle. F) This Sherwood Schwartz sitcom was a Saturday-morning offering. A teacher sips from the Fountain of Youth, and finds he switches back and forth between his current age and himself at age 12, unpredictably of course, as he seeks a cure. Hilarity ensues. Herbert Edelman and Robbie Rist share the title role. (Yeah, "cousin Oliver" Robbie Rist.)

Saying I'm an HtD FAN is overstating it. I've read it and can recognize some of the characters.

After eliminating many of his roles, I'm left with "Die Hard."

As a psychopath, vpw wanted total control over people. The ability to choose to end lives was sort-of incidental compared to what he really wanted- money, adulation, and women.

An eyewitness reported that his final hours had vpw claim he was trying to figure out where he'd gone wrong, what he'd done wrong that was interfering with his deliverance. The irony of a man who spent DECADES committing crimes and sinning then being unable to locate any moral failings on his own part is probably not lost on most of the posters here. As a youngster, my choices were between "nametag sticker" and "permanent nametag." Obviously, I wanted the latter. I could have gotten one made up, but I waited until I was an Advanced class grad and wore that one.

Ok, here's some old kids shows, all science-fiction in setting, all 70s in origin. Name any one to get the round. A) This post-WW3 Saturday morning offering featured young scientists exploring what's left of Earth in a high-tech RV/lab. It rather prominently featured a functioning JETPACK used during episodes. Filmation did this one, and the nose of this vehicle was used in some other live-action 70s stuff they did. B) This space show also appeared on Saturday mornings. Set in the future, it took place on an asteroid, and had young scientists learning about the universe. Their "SEEKER" vehicles had a nose that Filmation used in some other work they did around that time. Jonathan Harris and Brian Tochi were part of the principal cast, and acted alongside the robot "Peepo." "ORACO!" ("Orders Received And Carried Out.") C) This Saturday morning space show was set on the same asteroid, but was only vaguely related to the other show. It had a lead hero, and used more macho "Starfire" vehicles rather than the SEEKERs (almost all the time.) His tiny robot, designated "W1K1" was called "Wiki." Sid Haig played the bad guy, and the principal cast included JAMES DOOHAN. It was done in the old "movie serial" format and was usually part of a larger show with cartoons. D) This show aired in the afternoon, and was NOT a Filmation show. It had Chuck Mc Cann and Bob Denver as NASA employees who accidentally fly into space while loading food into a ship. (One of them was told to press "lunch" and he pressed "launch" instead.) The other main character was played by Patty Maloney, actress and dwarf. She played "Honk", an alien who communicated with horn-honk sounds and was usually smarter than the 2 humans.

Is it "the Da Vinci Code" then?

I refuse to confirm or deny that "Beverly Switzler" was any kind of clue to me. However, I suspected that the Caroline you named was that Caroline (once I started typing, but before hitting "reply.")

The art's an interesting clue. "Night at the Museum"????

Was that Lea Thompson?

Those books were so poorly-researched, reading them while in twi promoted staying in twi! "If that's the best the detractors can come up with, then twi's doing fine!" They stopped at silly or meaningless complaints and never found anything REALLY worth objecting to-which did exist. After the top 2 spots, everything else was really small potatoes, as society goes. So 3-5 together weren't worth worrying about. There's always been people ready to panic about the next fad to destroy society. So far, it's been destroyed by television, rock and roll music, comic books, and Dungeons and Dragons before I stopped keeping track. Their panics all started with a real concern, then were blown wildly out of proportion. Might as well have said that one pool table would equal the moral corruption of our children. Even if you're completely right, that has nothing to do with various manufactured moral panics. If you ever stumble upon any legitimate scheme of his, nobody will believe you. You've squandered your credibility endorsing too many silly panics and dismissing too many legitimate concerns. Any system that regularly produces more "false positives" than correct hits is defective and disregarded. I think twi served his purposes nicely. vpw diverted some of the House of Acts Christian hippies, and turned them from preaching to salesmen for twi. That's a net gain for satan. twi also provided a vehicle to teach that fornication is ok under certain circumstances and God is cool with it. twi also provided victims for rapists-who raped them. So, satan would be concerned about twi- and be very interested in making sure they kept up his work! They could preach all they wanted from the pulpit, but in action, they served him quite a bit. A) As has been pointed out, this is another supposed comparison putting Jesus in the same sentence and category as vpw. I'm insulted for my Lord to be placed in such company. B) The Pharisees didn't think Jesus was a crappy writer. The Pharisees didn't think Jesus was a joke. They went out of their way to try to discredit him. Their attempts to outsmart him failed spectacularly, whether it was trying to get him to object to paying taxes, or to get him to repudiate the Mosaic Law penalties. In each case, he demonstrated wisdom they were unable to match. Considering the lengths to which they ended up going in order to have him arrested and tried, it should be clear to everyone honest that they really put forth their best efforts to take him out. The Pharisees took Jesus very, very seriously. C) vpw was never scholarly. He deliberately steered as far away from "scholarly" as possible, especially when he majored in "Homiletics", the SOFTEST option available and he was able to succeed based on a gift of gab over genuine scholarship. Further, if he actually liked academics, he would have done his own work and NOT based it all on plagiarism and copying things over without stopping to understand them first. Furthermore, you NEVER saw him actually WRITE ANYTHING. He gabbed into tape recorders. Later, other people transcribed, and where necessary, they made corrections or deleted when his discourses were too error-ridden to be corrected when typing. And what he DID say was often based on plagiarizing others, That's why he has no consistent style for "his" books- they were plagiarized from different people with different vocabularies. No, but a lack of understanding how natural knowledge works leads to a lack of understanding of how spiritual knowledge works since we build our knowledge of what we learn now on the foundation of what we learned before. If we built it upon ignorance, the foundation is shaky. In any one book, the style was "consistent." From book to book, it varied widely. There was no need to "coach" him-just to "coach" the people actually doing the writing. THEY had a decent command of the English language- and their style went up as greater talents were available. That's why JCOPS and JCOP have a much more effective writing style than books like the Orange Book. And he made plenty of errors, as has been documented here beyond any REASONABLE doubt. Often, he spoke at great length about something- and was completely wrong about it. He made a nice-SOUNDING discourse on the difference between "kingdom of heaven" and "kingdom of God." Meanwhile, the terms are Biblically interchangeable- which is why they were used interchangeably. If you think vpw HIMSELF had a good command of English, again, you need to get out more. Yeah-a manic sales force was in effect talking the thing up as the greatest invention since sliced bread. So, students were surrounded by people telling them how fantastic this class was. Trying to be honest and say it wasn't, was difficult in the face of so much peer pressure. Furthermore, the rates of completion of Session 12 let alone retention past 6 months fell far short of your imagination. When I took "the class", we had 7 students signed up, and 3 of us finished session 12. So, more than 1/2 the class dropped out, despite there being no way to truly "fail" the class. I didn't see dropout rates like this at college for teachers that were HATED. We can see they must have done something WRONG.

It's nice to see the other side of the story on this one, finally. See, regarding the setup of '89 vs '88, Raf and I were told, about '88, that the setup was done "in half the time with half the people." The context given was the claim that the people who left were contentious and made the place chaotic, so that the few remaining had an EASIER job doing the setup since it was harmonious. So, that was a HUGE lie- 1/2 the people managed it by working at least twice as hard. This whole "it's more harmonious" thing was a bunch of hot air. Naturally, the guy who told us this was being promoted from worker bee to a big position despite having little twi experience. He WAS, however, incredibly loyal. And not afraid to lie, apparently. lcm would think every whim of his came directly from God Almighty. lcm decided, all on his own, that his incoherent, inferior class called WAP (Way of Abundance and Power) would be a hot seller if there were more people to advertise it. So, he decided to get more people advertising it by making all the corps into SALARIED, FULL-TIME workers for twi. IF that had been the answer, it might have paid for itself by bringing in lots of new tuitions, then new tithes, new "abundant sharings" and new "plurality givings". However, nobody could get anyone interested in wap, so the salaried corps often ended up being busy-bodies and snooping into the lives of others. Eventually, the expenses of paying for all these ROA attendees and their transit, when normally they paid their own transit and paid twi for ROA attendance, that killed both the "full-time corps" thing AND what was left of the ROA, as you showed.

(snip) (snip) We've discussed it in the past. I just recapped your answer in a new thread in Doctrinal. If you want to discuss it more, that's the thread to use, if there's anything you'd want to discuss about it.

KJV: "Luke 1:41 "And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost" Luke 1:44 "For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy." (Greek word 'brephos', which is also rendered "infant" or "young child" elsewhere.) John was not born yet, but he was considered a babe/baby. What month was he at? Well, according to Gabriel, 6 months. Luke 1:36. "And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren." So, John the Baptist, at 6 months if not sooner, was considered a baby, which is some 3 months before "first breath" on the average. That's "sometime before nine months". Further, at 6 months, there was some specificity in that he responded to Mary, and his response somehow indicated a distinction between normal fetal movement and this SPECIFIC reaction. That was in Luke 1:41, as description, and NOT simply a report of Elizabeth's opinion. I expect there's any number of women who've carried a baby for the usual 9 months who could attest to them reacting to stimuli and expressing approval or disapproval in the last trimester. ============================= So, what do we know? We know that, sometime before they take their first breath, they are a baby. We know that, sometime before 9 months, they are a baby. We know that, at the 6th month, they are a baby. We do NOT know if that is the beginning of them being called a baby, or if there's some timeframe before that where the term begins to be applied. We know that a baby is capable of responding to stimuli in the last trimester and is capable of having EMOTIONS (like "joy".) We do not know when that begins, but we know it applies in the last trimester. That's hardly the precise, unambiguous answer we modern folk would like, but it is certainly informative, and it definitely contradicts what vpw/twi said/say. Even so, some people will refuse to see it no matter what BECAUSE vpw taught one thing, so the Bible is not allowed to contradict vpw no matter what.

vpw put forth the erroneous, self-serving doctrine that a baby, before it is born, is not actually a person. He said it was a THING, a POTENTIAL person, "until it takes its first breath." This allowed him to have twi'ers counsel women to have abortions whenever twi found it inconvenient for them to carry to term. Almost all of it was based purely on vpw's exposition-what he called "private interpretation." The only verse he EVER used on the subject was Luke 1:35. We should all be aware by now that whenever vpw based a doctrine on a single verse, A) it was self-serving and benefited him B) it was based on a misreading of the verse (or a deliberate error) King James Version, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." NIV, Luke 1:35 "The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God." NASB, Luke 1:35 "The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God." ESV, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy--the Son of God." CEV, Luke 1:35 "The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come down to you, and God's power will come over you. So your child will be called the holy Son of God." Then there's the less literal versions. The only one who mentions a "thing" is the KJV. In fact, even the NEW KJV says.... NKJV, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." Last time I studied this in the Greek, I found the most literal word-for-word translation for that phrase matches the NIV and the NKV. The word "hagion" in the Stephens Text (per the Gordon Ricker-Berry Interlinear) is what the KJV renders "holy THING." That's a little odd, since the plural of this word is what's rendered "SAINTS" in the Epistles in the KJV, the "holy ones". This "thing" thing is ERROR. Actually, back in twi-timeframes, I was going verse-by-verse through the Greek on much of the New Testament. (I had the time.) I did look at this verse, Luke 1:35. It is true that the English calls Jesus "that holy thing". It also says "replenish" in Genesis, which has nothing to do with the Hebrew meaning of the word, "to fill". So, we look at the Greek. The most literal Greek I got from Luke 1:35 in that verse, from the phrase "holy thing", which was the Greek word "hagion", was "Holy One." That's because the plural of that word, "oi hagioi", is translated as "the saints." (My Bullinger's Critical Greek Lexicon notes that thus noun was used for "the saints" 61 times, and "saint" in the singular once.) This happens in the openings of several Church Epistles, like Romans 1:7, where the word "saints" in "to all those who are in Rome beloved of God called saints", the word "saints" is "hagiois". So Jesus, at the time of "the Annunciation" (Gabriel visiting Mary) was referred to as a "hagios", and I NOW am referred to as a "hagios". Either we are both a "thing" or we both are NOT. Basic English places a noun as a person, place or thing. Since I am a person, I am not a "thing", since I can't be both "person" and "thing" under basic definitions. (Unless one wants to split hairs and go into different specialist vocabularies in an effort to obscure the subject, anyway.) Therefore, since I'm a person or a "holy one" in that expression, so was he. That's using simple Bible cross-checking: the meaning in Luke 1:35 must agree with ALL usages in Scripture. ======================================= In other words, to any REASONABLE standard, it's clear that Jesus was not called a "holy thing" or any other kind of "thing" anywhere except in the King James Version, and certainly not in the Greek texts from which the KJV was translated. Jesus was called a "holy one" there, to be most direct and most literal. So, twi had/has no basis from Scripture for claiming a person begins only at the moment of birth. So, does the Bible have anything to say on when an unborn fetus officially becomes a "baby" or a person? Actually, it does-and it's well short of the 9 months vpw claimed...

It's the classic line from JULIUS CAESAR, and also appears in DISNEY'S ALADDIN.

8. Do not tell all you know. Receive the word of wisdom. Judges 16:4ff, Mat 7:6, II Kings 20:12-19 Judges 16:4-14.(KJV) 4 And it came to pass afterward, that he loved a woman in the valley of Sorek, whose name was Delilah. 5 And the lords of the Philistines came up unto her, and said unto her, Entice him, and see wherein his great strength lieth, and by what means we may prevail against him, that we may bind him to afflict him; and we will give thee every one of us eleven hundred pieces of silver. 6 And Delilah said to Samson, Tell me, I pray thee, wherein thy great strength lieth, and wherewith thou mightest be bound to afflict thee. 7 And Samson said unto her, If they bind me with seven green withs that were never dried, then shall I be weak, and be as another man. 8 Then the lords of the Philistines brought up to her seven green withs which had not been dried, and she bound him with them. 9 Now there were men lying in wait, abiding with her in the chamber. And she said unto him, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And he brake the withs, as a thread of tow is broken when it toucheth the fire. So his strength was not known. 10 And Delilah said unto Samson, Behold, thou hast mocked me, and told me lies: now tell me, I pray thee, wherewith thou mightest be bound. 11 And he said unto her, If they bind me fast with new ropes that never were occupied, then shall I be weak, and be as another man. 12 Delilah therefore took new ropes, and bound him therewith, and said unto him, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And there were liers in wait abiding in the chamber. And he brake them from off his arms like a thread. 13 And Delilah said unto Samson, Hitherto thou hast mocked me, and told me lies: tell me wherewith thou mightest be bound. And he said unto her, If thou weavest the seven locks of my head with the web. 14 And she fastened it with the pin, and said unto him, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And he awaked out of his sleep, and went away with the pin of the beam, and with the web. ================= [it didn't say where to stop, but that's enough to give us sufficient context. Supposedly, this suggests a spiritual "key" about not telling all that you know, and "receiving the word of wisdom." In this case, Samson completely FAILED to "receive the word of wisdom." Samson lacked even PRUDENT wisdom. His SO tried to have him captured, more than once. He stayed with her and didn't have her killed in his place. Eventually, she harassed him until he gave away his big secret, and by the end of the chapter, it had cost him his life. As for "not telling all that you know", that really is common-sense. Anyone who really tells all that they know will be considered both tactless and a know-it-all. ] ====================== Matthew 7:6 (KJV) 6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. ===================== [Again, we have not telling everything you know-but not as some sort of spiritual "key." We are still missing "receive the word of wisdom" in an account.] ================== II Kings 20:12-19 (KJV) 2 At that time Berodachbaladan, the son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent letters and a present unto Hezekiah: for he had heard that Hezekiah had been sick. 13 And Hezekiah hearkened unto them, and shewed them all the house of his precious things, the silver, and the gold, and the spices, and the precious ointment, and all the house of his armour, and all that was found in his treasures: there was nothing in his house, nor in all his dominion, that Hezekiah shewed them not. 14 Then came Isaiah the prophet unto king Hezekiah, and said unto him, What said these men? and from whence came they unto thee? And Hezekiah said, They are come from a far country, even from Babylon. 15 And he said, What have they seen in thine house? And Hezekiah answered, All the things that are in mine house have they seen: there is nothing among my treasures that I have not shewed them. 16 And Isaiah said unto Hezekiah, Hear the word of the Lord. 17 Behold, the days come, that all that is in thine house, and that which thy fathers have laid up in store unto this day, shall be carried into Babylon: nothing shall be left, saith the Lord. 18 And of thy sons that shall issue from thee, which thou shalt beget, shall they take away; and they shall be eunuchs in the palace of the king of Babylon. 19 Then said Hezekiah unto Isaiah, Good is the word of the Lord which thou hast spoken. And he said, Is it not good, if peace and truth be in my days? ============================= [What lesson does this account teach? It teaches not to practice full and open total disclosure with other countries, as it gives THEM an unfair advantage. Again, there was no "word of wisdom" mentioned in the account. So, once again, we have some common-sense, mixed in haphazardly with anything else. This supposed "key" falls down at a glance.]

The numbers suddenly went from "incidental" to your main focus. That was fast. And incorrect. It was based on the long-discredited idea that 100,000 people took the foundational. No, supposedly 100,000 people SIGNED UP for it. Not everyone who signed up showed up for Session 1, and not all of them made it to Session 12. When I took it, 7 of us were signed up. 6 of us made it to Session 1. 3 of us made it to Session 12. If those numbers were actually representative of twi as a whole, less than 50,000 people took the entire foundational class. And that still says little about them. Saying 50,000 people took a class hardly qualifies as "God opening big doors" for people when it represents DECADES of twi recruitment. The "Jehovah's Witnesses", the Mormons, and Scientology claim numbers that dwarf that easily. (Compared to each, twi is statistically "insignificant.") The panicky people were worried about twi for a few years, but compared to the Moonies, considered twi to be very small potatoes for the exact same timeframe. Furthermore, in that same timeframe, the number of people panicking about youngsters in twi was NOTHING compared to the number of people panicking about youngsters playing Dungeons and Dragons. Was satan very concerned about them also? It should be obvious that the panics were manufactured by small, easily-frightened minds, and were not a supernatural attempt to hit twi because twi was almost a rounding error when compared to the overall panic. Bob Dole mentioned twi almost in passing when discussing cults. The Senate is supposed to look out for the public welfare. So, they did some inquiries about cults. Was that because twi was causing a big stir at the time? No, it was because Jim Jones had just caused a big stir, and they wanted to know if all the other cults were similar ticking time-bombs ready to go off. They were not, and so the Senate hearings didn't amount to a modern-day witch-hunt, at least not on the part of the US government. No, it was panicky individuals who were convinced they should be scared of ALL those groups, including twi. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390443686004577634230036422926 "For a few years in the late 1970s, Moon was the most notorious public face of a cult scare. Through that decade, a series of small religious groups earned a controversial reputation by drawing young people away from their families, often to isolated compounds. These were the years of the Children of God, the Hare Krishna movement, The Way International, and the Unification Church—the "Moonies." "The Jonestown massacre of 1978 (a mass suicide instigated by Jim Jones, leader of the People's Temple cult) suggested that this total obedience might extend to real violence. When then-Sen. Bob Dole chaired a joint congressional session on "the Cult Phenomenon" in 1979, a parade of witnesses presented the problem in sensational terms. One described cults as "one of the most dangerous threats in the history of this country."" Many lives were destroyed or thrown off track by the influence of such cults. But the problem was nowhere near the scale suggested by the media, religious leaders or even the U.S. government. Cults had no great power to brainwash, as indicated by their embarrassingly poor retention rates. Most recruits stuck around for a year or two before drifting away, either gravitating to a new group or returning to normal life." The panic over cults resulted partly from savvy media manipulation by a variety of interest groups. Mainstream religious organizations played a role, as did networks of families who feared that they had lost their children. More sinister were so-called deprogrammers, self-appointed experts who would—for a hefty fee—kidnap cult members and reverse the "brainwashing."" So the media decided that the rise of cults was the nation's most important religious story. The topic received vastly more attention than several other developments that, in retrospect, were incomparably more significant. The 1970s marked a historic resurgence of evangelical Christian faith, for example—a new Great Awakening that reflected a general return to orthodoxy across the religious spectrum. And in South Korea itself, we see the triumph not of cults but of sober, mainstream, Christian churches. In other words, a lot of important things were happening while the media were chasing moonbeams." =================================== Bragging that twi was famous because they made it into passing references of Senate committee hearings is pretty desperate. You don't get out much, do you? Interested people show up for events from all over the world all the time. Ever attend the World Science Fiction Society's convention? If so, you showed up at a meeting that has had people show up from all over the world, and has been HELD on 4 different continents. People have traveled to each over great distances. That's dedicated to Science Fiction. They get further than twi, and have lasted a lot longer, without the involvement of a higher (or lower) power. College students from all over the world attend US colleges. Many of them show up at National Conventions of Alpha Phi Omega every 2 years (which is when they are held.) Since they're college students, any travel is, of course, a significant event. That's dedicated to service, primarily to the community where the individual colleges are located. They've been around a LOT longer than twi, and get further than twi, without the involvement of a higher (or lower) power. Every year, people from over 20 countries show up in Pittsburgh for a few days of puppet shows, cartoon discussions, and mascot displays. They show up from North and South America, Australia, all across Europe, as well as Asia. (The numbers and exact locations fluctuate between years.) They get that far without the involvement of a higher (or lower) power. Attendance numbers for a group are hardly evidence of the involvement of God Almighty, and it's kinda sad when one's reduced to making such an obviously false and easily-refuted claim. A vague claim, and one that doesn't require that the location and the setting actually BE of God. God can work with anyone, anytime and anywhere. Supposing it's true that people were delivered, it's not required that twi have any kind of connection to God that people got the deliverance there. People get delivered from afflictions and saved during huge revival meetings in stadiums and in convention halls. That doesn't mean the stadiums and the convention halls have any kind of connection to God Almighty. Sure explains why the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses fizzled out decades ago. Oh, wait, they didn't-they started long before twi and claim far greater numbers than twi, and they're not "Pentecostal"- which means they're not drawing people in with claims that healing is even POSSIBLE, let alone ACCESSIBLE. Besides, twi was on life-support up UNTIL the end of the 60s when vpw conned godly young Christians who were making a difference in California. Reliable accounts of healing and blessings can be traced to THEIR involvement. Ending a string of unsupported, unsupportable, disproven claims with an appeal to reality appeals to my sense of humour.

I noticed you changed terms since the last one suited you so poorly. You said "Some people here say that VP/twi was insignificant, Not enough numbers to have discernible impact." We addressed what would be meant by "insignificant." (Statistically, twi was and is insignificant. On an absolute scale, those whose lives were ruined would consider it "significant." Now you suddenly stopped discussing "insignificant" (a term with a specific meaning in statistics) and switched to "irrelevant" without noting you did so. "Irrelevant" in reference to WHAT? It's a RELATIVE term and needs a point of reference to define it. In discussing internal combustion engines, eternal salvation is "irrelevant." When discussing eternal salvation, internal combustion engines are "irrelevant." And so on. Charles Manson's group is relevant to discussing statistics because they had a number. Statistically, the group was "insignificant" on a national scale because they were a handful of people who killed less than a handful of people. We lose more people every single day due to heart attacks than Manson's group killed in their entirety. But I've noticed you prefer to flee terms with specific meanings and cling to terms that can be "creatively interpreted." You made a similar mistake (accidentally or intentionally) above when you confused "irrelevant" with "insignificant". No He didn't. vpw ripped off several products from several people, plagiarizing them and impressing people by lying and saying it was all his own work. Later, he began claiming that God Almighty taught him this stuff, but it was all from the work of others. Except for a VAGUE passing comment buried in a book almost nobody ever read, no mention seems to have been made of the source materials as source materials. vpw found out the hippie Christians were having great success. He went to meet them in person, try to get into some orgies, tried to get the Christian hippies into orgies, and tried to impress them with his supposedly unique knowledge he claimed came directly from God Almighty. They didn't suspect he would lie and con his way through them, so some of them believed him. THEY were the ones who recruited all the people that swelled twi's numbers. All significant growth in twi can be traced to them and the people they brought in. That's why there was almost nobody in twi until then, and the membership swelled directly as a result of their involvement. twi got a different kind of notoriety when people got scared of youngsters in odd groups and made all sorts of claims about twi, accidentally giving them free publicity. NONE of that required vpw or twi to be anything remotely resembling CORRECT, let alone a movement of God, per se. twi never "stayed" any kind of course God Almighty would have approved. The Christian hippies opened big doors by reaching the young folk and relating to them as anti-establishment, which is easy to use to reach young folk. And when vpw clamped down on them, twi growth stopped exploding and began to trickle. Ok, we went through "insignificant" and "irrelevant", and are now on "incidental." Actually, the numbers are directly relevant to the "significance" we addressed earlier. I notice you laud numbers when you think they support your premises, but spurn them as soon as it's shown they undercut your premises.

Cool but completely fictional. he never auditioned for the Monkees. http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/monkees.asp Please consider fact-checking at least SOME of your statements before hitting "add reply."