WordWolf

Can we get a moderator to airlift this doctrinal discussion and drop it off in Doctrinal?

As to the thread, I expected it to go to Doctrinal, I mentioned Doctrinal as the place to discuss the subject, in fact, and suggested starting a new thread there- but the same thread could just be moved. As for the family thing, that's a shame. I also can't see eye-to-eye with anything like what they said. I thought that the moment of reflection during the invocation was a fair way to cover equal time, since that can be done respectfully and reverently, which, I imagine, is how an invocation like that is supposed to go no matter who makes it. Then again, it should be flexible enough to cover, say, Hindu, Muslim, Jainist, etc as well as Humanist, etc. Either that or show flexibility by dropping the formal prayer and just getting to the work for which they were elected.

I think a discussion of "why healings and miracles" and/or why not could make for an interesting discussion in Doctrinal. (That's no guarantee it WOULD, but it might make for one.)

Here's the lyrics to this show's theme song: "So you think that you've got troubles? Well, trouble's a bubble So tell old Mr. Trouble to get lost! Why not hold your head up high and Stop cryin', start tryin' And don't forget to keep your fingers crossed. When you find the joy of livin' Is lovin' and givin' You'll be there when the winning dice are tossed. A smile is just a frown that's turned upside down So smile, and that frown will defrost. And don't forget to keep your fingers crossed "

So, the title is really a misnomer, if he neither kills before anyone else, nor at all?

A Time to Kill Samuel L. Jackson Avengers- Infinity War

(Actually, it was how God provided for THE OTHER GUY. I was the guy who offered him a ride and a place to stay when he needed it.)

Yes. IF the Bible is right, its SIT, Interpretation and prophecy are supernatural. If it IS right, that's no guarantee what we taught was the same thing- if not, there's NO reason to think it IS supernatural. If the Bible is wrong, then there's no reason to think that the Bible's version or the twi version are supernatural. All of that pending further information. I mean, if it turned out that the Bible was wrong but there was some modern thing that was supernatural ANYWAY, it would remain to be seen that it was- and that would take quite a bit of proof in its corner, not just convictions.

It's old news that the splinters often act as airlocks. People jump from twi to a splinter, realize there's life outside twi, then realize there's life outside the splinters and that they can do better, so they jump from the splinter to anything else, whether another Christian group or denomination, or another religion, or another philosophy, or supposedly nothing at all, depending on their personal inclinations.

Yes. I didn't realize we covered him so recently. Human should have taken it when he had the chance.

Yes, and written they way their advertised it- so, written the way I liked to pronounce it when it hit the theaters- "Star The Empire Strikes Back Wars."

Mainly, I posted links to the other discussions. If they want to follow up on the mundane practice of vocalizing, or discuss the Bible on it, or approach it skeptically, they can follow the links to the other discussions and revive whichever one they want to participate in.

I understood what they SAID just fine. They didn't address my pain at all. In fact, they had me sit up in the ER to take chest x-rays, even though I was partly in shock and unable to sit still for the x-rays because I was in so much pain. (They had to try more than once, and I recall the tech sounding indignant at having to work for it and insisting I sit up and sit still, and I remember the pain- which cut through the shock enough that I recall the tech.) After my processing, they did nothing for the pain. When I proved unable to sleep by lying completely still on my back in a room where babies cried every 2 hours and people came about every 2 hours to take a blood sample. they allowed me up to 3 shots so I could sleep. I was allowed up to 3 because they were potentially addictive, so I supposedly had the option not to take all 3. The first night, I had one and slept. The 2nd night, I had the 2nd at the same time and slept. The 3rd night, my body had the idea and was falling asleep by itself without any request for a shot. I was woken up by a nurse giving me the shot I neither requested nor needed, and watching a family member just sorta stare blankly rather than tell them to back off. That's the entire amount of "pain management" I had in the place. I had to handle the rest myself. My broken ribs were "treated" by leaving them alone and letting them knit entirely by themselves- which they did. My head injury was watched and someone checked that I didn't sound like I'd lost 100 IQ points or something. My spinal injury (the actual first injury) was completely ignored, and was completely untreated. (That had consequences that dogged me for DECADES, and I was of the impression I had head injuries that were permanent and untreatable. No, almost all of it was spinal injuries that were COMPLETELY treatable- and would have been paid for by the responsible party if anyone had bothered to check.) My "incentive spirometry" was definitely compromised by a lot of pain. I was told to do it and ignore the pain. I was definitely told there was already an EXISTING problem with a build-up in my lungs that was causing pneumonia, caused by shallow breathing and treatable by non-shallow breathing. My ambulation was impaired by extensive spinal misalignment, which threw my sense of balance off greatly. With lots of practice, I learned to compensate for the loss of equilibrium and use my sense of sight more to determine balance. One year of chiropractic treatments many years later, and the results were dramatic. (I felt 10 years younger and healthier.) Oh, when I wanted to try to walk, I wanted some kind of stick I could ground to balance myself if I felt dizzy and had to stand still. The hospital refused to OK that, and my family refused to get something. Imagine my surprise years later when I found out I could freaking go into any good pharmacy and buy a stick cheaply, with some even selling foldable things. My biggest concern- which slowed my walking- was falling down and re-injuring my ribs. Somehow, nobody seemed to think this was a credible risk. (Except my roommate, who lent me a crutch so I could carry it around and plant it as soon as I felt dizzy, so I could actually practice walking again.) Incentive to getting out, to me, was more a matter of "I have to get well enough to get out before these stooges injure me further" than anything else. If that was the intent of the care, then it succeeded, but I think that was an unintended side-effect. For me, the moral of this story is that city hospitals (and especially Jacobi Hospital) are just plain awful places if you really care about the person receiving treatment. I've heard other horror stories about other city hospitals from people who were forced to spend time in them.

A) He mixed the topics, I responded briefly to his post. Responding briefly to YOUR post: B) IF the Bible is actually correct, the things in I Corinthians called "interpretation" (of tongues) and "prophecy" are, apparently, supernatural, as is the tongue. The thing twi'ers were taught was the same thing mainly resembles it in being told "this is the same thing" and people believing it's the same thing. (ThingS, but you know what I mean.) Some threads we discussed this on.... One side-thread on "what is language" - https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24206-what-is-language/ One side-thread on "free vocalization" (a non-supernatural/ mundane practice actors do) https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/23550-free-vocalization/ This one started with links to all the other threads: Another discussion on SIT https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24434-another-discussion-on-sit-and-the-bible/ And several of those are in Doctrinal, one in Questioning Faith, and 2 in About the Way. If anyone wants to discuss something relevant, they should pick the thread that it's relevant TO and revive the thread. (The GSC doesn't mind "necroíng" a thread if it's relevant.)

The lack of consulting anyone at the hospital- no doctor, no clerk with access to the records, no nurse who treated the patient- makes this newspaper article of the same caliber as the articles in the "Weekly World News" about Batboy. All unconfirmed quotes, all accounts of what someone said, with no attempts to find out if they're mistaken, lying, deluded, etc. IIRC, my high school newspaper was held to better standards- I know my college newspaper was.

I think some of us find this story of interest, but for very different reasons than you do. Also, nothing even in the newspaper article suggested this was a "dead raising."

I'm not sure about some of the details. However, I know a show that was set in Los Angeles, aired on the WB, was a rough contemporary of Smallville, and had characters named "Darla" and "Fred" (WINIFRED, but "Fred" to her friends.) This should be "ANGEL."

BTW, since I didn't mention it, the first quote was an interesting exchange. Burns had said that Klinger was "an enlisted man." So, they asked Klinger if he ever actually "ENLISTED." He told this story of how he responded to being drafted and called up for duty. Hawkeye and Trapper were amused by his account, but I forgot who said what in that exchange.

Jon Rubin Sam Nicoletti Bruce Pearson Alfredo Berlinghieri Monroe Stahr Jimmy Doyle Lloyd Barker Mario Trantino John "Johnny Boy" Civello Michael Vronsky Desmond "Des" Spellacy Rupert Pupkin David "Noodles" Aaronson Frank Raftis Archibald "Harry" Tuttle Rodrigo Mendoza Louis Cyphre Jack Walsh

Uh, Screamin' Jay Hawkins' "I Put a Spell on You???"

Some of this is eventually self-correcting. With the numbers of new people affected by twi dwindling, this problem afflicts fewer people because twi trains fewer people in its dysfunctional methods. So, over the decades, the puffed-up leaders get old and die of old age if nothing else. Most people who leave twi, after a few years, discover their splinters (if they jump to one) aren't helping them, and they get on with their lives without splinters. Those ex-twi who don't, generally end up in groups with no authority figure at all, and end up just doing house-church. Those can actually work and help people, depending on who's teaching and what they're teaching. Since that's a system that selects AGAINST authority figures, it selects for the more "Christian" types who actually wanted to help people and do the right thing from Day One. (I don't think there's sizeable numbers of those, but I know they exist.)

I'm sorry to bring this up since it's unrelated to the main thread, but now I'm trying to figure something out for a personal reason, which, I'm sure, you can see. When I was laid up in the hospital with broken ribs (and other fun injuries), I was breathing shallowly due to having broken ribs. The doctors said that I had to breathe more deeply because the shallow breathing was causing me to get fluid in the lungs and pneumonia. So, I had to breathe deeper to get rid of that. I even had to practice with a "spirometer" that looked like a toy and measured how hard I was inhaling if I inhaled through it. Perhaps the doctors were in error or explaining poorly. They were in a city hospital, which, for reasons unclear to me, my parents insisted on keeping me in (even though the party at fault was paying for the hospital stay so we didn't have to worry about the cost- and lied to me about, promising I would be transferred for several days.) With all of those in mind: A) Were the doctors describing something incorrectly, whether to "dumb it down" or out of simple incompetence? B) If true, was my deeper breathing getting rid of pneumonia and preventing more? If so, doesn't a machine that breathes for a coma patient ALSO prevent pneumonia the same way? C) Was my treatment a sign of general incompetence all around and they thought I was cared for, or does it look like my parents really didn't mind I was getting bad care? (Ok, that last one isn't a medical question, but I am curious how it looks to a neutral party. Some of my injuries were never even LOOKED AT, let alone treated. I finally got them treated a few years ago, and felt 10 years younger.)

Jon Rubin Sam Nicoletti Bruce Pearson Alfredo Berlinghieri Monroe Stahr Jimmy Doyle Lloyd Barker Mario Trantino John Civello Michael Vronsky Desmond Spellacy Rupert Pupkin

I'm sure you meant more to offer it for others to like, which happened with Allan. However, you phrased it with a question- so we answered your question. Most of us don't have a beef with you even if we disagree. (Most of us don't have detailed, personal reasons to have a beef with you. One of us certainly seems to.) Mind you, I'm sure we all reserve the right to change our opinions and tones, one way or another, depending on what we're responding to. (We've seen posters condemn women for the crime of letting vpw drug and rape them, then later say that he drugged and raped them- and some of us responded rather sharply to that, for example.) Also, there's no single consensus of opinion around here. We are all free to think as we wish, and to disagree freely. So, we do. Please don't think otherwise, and don't paint all of us with the same brush. (Now, THAT can get everyone to start liking you less...)

I tend to approach testimonies carefully BECAUSE I know that some people are: A) great big liars or B) not smart and honestly mistaken or unobservant or C) fanatical enough to ignore more mundane possibilities So, I don't dismiss them categorically. but I do approach them carefully, and I tend not to blow a trumpet on things I've been in on. However, I'll let you have one for free. It happened back in 1988. There was this guy coming off the WOW field. He was on a super-tight budget and "camping" in airports because hotel rooms would have been outside his budget. (He said some things happened in the last few days of his tour of wow-ness.) His plan at the end was to wait in a local airport where he was, take a plane to Dayton Airport the day before everybody travels there for the ROA (the day before twi sent the shuttle buses to pick people up at the airport), and "camp" in the airport until the next day when the shuttle buses showed up. He prayed about all this regularly, of course. As it turned out, the assigned seat next to his was occupied by someone arriving a day early for the ROA. They were going to be picked up at the airport by another attendee, go have dinner, then proceed to an RV that was going to be mostly vacant until the next day when the others arrived. Because of that, the guy had a lift, a place to stay for the night, and people to hang out with and watch his back. The odds of him sitting next to someone else attending were small. This was the day before, and it wasn't like the NEXT day the airport would be full of ROA attendees, nor the planes. It appeared as if the only person on the plane who was going there was seated next to him. The probability of that happening by chance was not zero, it was not impossible. However, it was incredibly improbable- enough, at the very least, to raise a few eyebrows. How do I know this happened? I was the guy in the other seat. As to anything else that he said happened in the days before, I didn't witness them so I don't know for sure they happened, or that they happened quite the way he said. However, what I saw was interesting enough, to say the least.