WordWolf

Ok, let me catch up a little by bunching up my guesses a little. (It's been a rough week.) Mariel Hemingway? Melanie Griffith? Helena Bonham Carter? Kate Winslet?

Yes, but I'm sure he won't mind if someone else takes it.

Disclosure Demi Moore Charlies Angels- Full Throttle

Jerry Lee Lewis, "Great Balls of Fire." I think.

When it comes to the delivery of the sermons, this was something different. vpw used the works of others to write the sermons, but was able to deliver the content with all the skill of the carnival barker. If you handed him a completed sermon, he could deliver it looking full of conviction. He studied Homiletics- or how to deliver a sermon. HOWEVER, his skill at ONLY delivering the work of others says a lot about vpw, especially since he rarely gave due credit.

Was vpw a gifted Bible researcher? vpw showed considerable experience taking the work of others and building teachings and classes on them. vpw had a private library composed of the works of other Christians- works he would plagiarize when he taught. Virtually all of pfal- all 3 levels- were taken from the works of others- Bullinger, Stiles, Kenyon, etc. vpw often relied on the meaning of a word as it appeared in the King James Version, even if that meaning wasn't in the critical texts that were used. When someone made a mistake, vpw often copied the mistake, as if he lacked the understanding that they HAD mistakes. When it came to actual research, vpw assigned someone else to do it- Walter, the research dept, etc. His skill at actually researching the Bible was rather shallow, even compared to the average Advanced Class grad. "His" books were the work of the research department, to which he attached his name. Except for the Studies in Abundant Living, which were teachings that others edited and made into proper books. In short, vpw was not a noteworthy Bible researcher, even in twi.

Was vpw an exceptionally pious man of God? The current Pope, Pope Francis, has often been said to be so, all based on his actions and his living. (He used to go preach to the poor and homeless when he was a priest and bishop, for example, and he stands in lines like everyone else and does not expect special treatment.) So, how has vpw measured up? When he was young, he was so contrary to actions of piety that the idea that he would become a preacher was met with derision. It was scoffed at by his local community- who were well aware he'd earned a reputation as a bully and a showoff. It was scoffed at by his own father- who said he never put in work on the farm, so he would be worse at being a pastor. The only positive claim came from his brother Harry, who said vpw would run off from his chores for hours and vanish into the woods. Supposedly- for Harry never saw him- vpw was preaching to the trees all that time, just like Billy Graham, even though nobody EVER said they saw vpw actually DO it. Further, that was back when vpw was supposedly trying to decide whether to go into business, or music or the church. As a pastor, he had a reputation for being somewhat severe on his congregation- by his own admission. Moreover, his weekly sermons began more than a year before he actually believed the Bible was the Word of God, despite using it in his sermons. He claimed that doing weekly sermons made it NECESSARY for him to go to the Bible every week. I'm curious what it says of a pastor who has to be "made" to read the Bible weekly. Does he not read it daily for enrichment? For enjoyment? As an act of devotion? For that matter, actual acts of devotion are conspicuously missing from vpw's accounts. He supposedly mouthed off at the church elders once (and the location of the meeting kept changing), but actual acts of devotion were missing. None of that even addressed vpw raping, drugging and/or molesting the women of his flock. Finally, vpw had a long-term addiction to tobacco and to alchohol. He was seen chain-smoking, and people knew what brand he smoked. He was seen drinking at all hours, and people knew what alcoholic beverage he drank. Further, he insisted mints be at the podium, so he could bite one in half in his mouth regularly- covering the smell of tobacco or of booze. (Kool shorties and Drambuie, in case there was anyone who didn't know.) Long-term abuse of alcohol and tobacco can injure the eye and the liver, and increase the risk of cancer- which bright lights do not. vpw died of cancer of the liver and of the eye. He claimed that the bright studio lights he used briefly, decades earlier, in filming pfal was the cause of the eye cancer- but stage lights do NOT cause cancer. Wouldn't there be a long list of stage actors who've spent a year or years looking into studio lights, then all getting eye cancer and dying? OBVIOUSLY, the pfal studio lights claim was a great big lie- one that covered his own foolishness and pointed to something "virtuous" as the cause (filming pfal.) vpw insisted he gave his eye for preaching, and tried to use that as a spur for others to obey him or outdo him. As a pious man of God, vpw fell far short of the minimum expected of a minister.

There will always be a few people who insist, dogmatically, that vpw was some person of incredible abilities. Let's run down the actual possibilities, however. Once, someone claimed vpw was an exceptional athlete. that he was "Born with an overabundance of brains and brawn," that he was "overgifted." There have been claims he played professional basketball. All of that was hot air. vpw was on his high school varsity basketball team. vpw never lettered in basketball in college, and never played as a player for any professional team after college. All the references to him doing so were deliberately-phrased comments, made vague so he could INSINUATE he did those things. He "played basketball all through college" but never mentioned any team, and never showed a team photo among all his photos- although he showed one from high school. He mentioned being "involved with" the Sheboygan Redskins, but never said he was a team member, nor did the list of all their players in history include his name. So, he made comments that TRICKED people into thinking he'd said he'd done both, and that rather deliberately. A poll done at the GSC showed that 40% of the posters had EXCEEDED his athletic accomplishments, and another 20% had equaled them but not exceeded them. Further, vpw was never seen actually joining in on athletics at twi. So, vpw was a wannabe athlete whose athletic career was over when he began college. That's not noteworthy in any way. How about ACADEMICALLY? Even vpw was slow to try to claim he'd excelled academically. He claimed he'd taken ALL of the correspondence courses Moody offered- but Moody was contacted, and there was no record of him. If he'd completed even a single course with them, there would have been a record of him. vpw never displayed Honor Roll awards, Deans List mentions, or anything of that type. He'd claimed that some teachers he'd had in forgettable schools were allegedly the best in the state or whatever, but never that he'd attended schools of great renown. Oddly, he soft-pedaled his time at Princeton Theological Seminary- possibly so he could make it sound like he went to Princeton UNIVERSITY. PTS is a respected theological school, but lacks the name recognition of the university that is its neighbor. lcm used to do that as well, saying vpw had a Masters Degree from "Princeton"- which, again, INSINUATED that vpw got a Masters at Princeton UNIVERSITY. I have trouble imagining lcm came up with that himself rather than copying vpw's own habits there. Finally, vpw never completed his doctorate in an accredited, respected school like PTS. He completed it in a degree mill. Then he insisted on being called "Doctor"- for having a "Doctorate" from an unaccredited source. For the record, I have 3 "Doctorates", all from unaccredited sources- one in Theology, one in Bible Truths, and one in Using Boldface Type to Make My Posts Easier to Read. All 3 were granted to me here. So, I'm 3x the "doctor" that vpw was. We also have posters here whose REAL- as in ACCREDITED- doctorates were harder to earn than vpw's degree mill doctorate. So, in short, vpw was a lightweight in academics as well. NOTHING distinguished him, ACADEMICALLY.

waysider: "VPW was connected to Liberty Lobby. He got conspiracy information from them and passed it off to us, leading us to believe he had gotten the information by revelation. One of these theories involved the USSR taking over the USA. (mid 1970s) If the USA fell to Communism, the Word would be lost again because only TWI had the ability to rightly divide it. We had lots of prayer vigils and kept the situation high on our lift lists. There's a WHOLE lot more to the story, but, in summary, our believing and SIT was all that saved America. We were helping VPW to stand in the gap. Dat's Riiiiight."

Yes, vpw standing alone, righteous before YHWH. No, not about saving Israel, vpw was of German ancestry and bashed Israel quite a bit. vpw was saving the entire planted from destruction by "the adversary", with only his own believing plugging the holes. So, he was supposedly sitting alone and unmoving. After a while, he'd announce that that time was vpw fighting for the planet, with only Michael the Archangel backing him up. Of course, nobody saw him doing anything other than drinking Drambuie alone and then announcing he'd been in a Deep Spiritual Conflict. I think the only thing you really missed was exactly how full of baloney vpw was. There were lots of little stories- propagated by vpw- about how he/vpw was doing Super Spiritual Stuff all the time, hearing directly from God Almighty and praying effectively for the entire planet.

Yes, that was vpw himself who made that claim. Whenever the number of eyewitnesses approached zero, vpw did fantastic things. What a shame we never had any witnessed to him doing amazing healings and so on.

One of vpw's claims about himself: Microbe: "I remember him telling the Corps about the times he would sit in a chair in his "room" for hours and hours, under such incredible stress that all he could do was hang on until it was clear that Michael had won that particular battle. It required his total concentration and nothing helped. People (his wife etc) had to just leave him alone in the dark for extended periods of time. He described it as something like mental torture. He stood in the GAP! He never mentioned Jesus Christ as far as I remember. At the time it sounded to me (not a doctor - ok) like the man was suffering anxiety attacks. He also said he had trouble sleeping and was seeking medical attention. His MD, a believer, of course dismissed this and calmed his concerns about mental stress. Of course he was sound minded-he just had to save the world!"

In twi, it was/is common to claim that the Christians "stand in the gap" or that a certain leader "stands in the gap" to pray for everyone. There was even a song someone did once. "Standing in the gap, between the need and The Father, making up a hedge and turning loose His Mighty Power." So, supposedly, lcm did it, and before him, vpw supposedly did it- a lot, at vpw's own word.

This was a thread with some of the super-inflated claims about vpw.

washingtonweather: "Does any one remember this tape? I still have it, it was so wild. VP blamed the Jim Jones Kool-aid cult-suicide on the CIA predominently because they had planes "ready" in Florida. This was probably my first red-flag...don't ask me why I stayed...maybe because I was only 20 then? and VERY impressionable still!" "He somehow thought that because the planes were gassed and ready to leave FLorida...and coincidently had the 400 hundred body bags neccessary to handle this catastrophe, all this general readiness (by military standards) indicated they had set it up and controlled it...to see if people would really follow to that extent. " igotout: "Washington, I seem to remember that tape too. I was in Emporia at the time. I distinctly remember him saying that one of the "clues" that it was the government was that all the bodies were lined up side by side in a rather orderly fashion. He said that if they had really taken poison they would have convulsed and it would have been a more chaotic scene. He said the reason the government did this was becasue ultimately they were out to destroy TWI by creating the whole cult attention thing by causing Jonestown. He definitely fell for conspiracy theories. But I think he was fed those theories by men such as CG and others who were just as paranoid. And of course LCM believed in all that stuff too. (Oklahoma City bombing was carried out by the government, McVeigh was a pawn in the game) A friend of mine (who was in TWI at the peak of when the theories were being talked about) still believes in all that crap. It is embarrasing to hear him talk about it. I usually just change the subject when he gets started on the Jewish Defamation League or the secret meetings that take place each year with the Bilderbergers and Bill Gates, and or some BS like that. He has a couple of screws loose. Whe Waydale first started making waves my friend thought PA was a pawn of some "bigger players" who were out to destroy LCM and TWI and ultimately God's Word. After all, how could one man do this without funding, etc.?" shazdancer: "Yeah, I absolutely remember that tape, the title even rang a bell. Like igotout, I recall the "proof" about the victims being found in neat rows. If I recall correctly, there was a Military WOW involved in the recovery group that reported what he saw to VPW. (Even then, I wondered if that might have been a breach of security, as an investigation must have still been in progress.) I think that tape was an early "ooh, we are sooo spiritual" moment for me. At the time, I bought it hook, line, and sinker. After I left TWI, I realized that VP could be wrong. These days, I see it as a not-so-subtle message from the Victimizer: You can trust your local cult leader -- it's the government you should watch out for! With deprogramming coming into fashion, his strategy was understandable. When the Waco cult thing happened, I yelled "don't do it!" at the car radio when I heard that the feds had decided to wage an assault on the compound of that Armageddon-fearing group. I knew that those people would take it as the sign that everything their leader had told them was true. I knew it in my bones, because of the pervasive distrust of government I had lived with under TWI." Sunesis: "He probably got that tape, like all his other "secret" info tapes from the Liberty Lobby, of which he was a member. For those of you who don't know, the Liberty Lobby is a front in Washington, D.C. for all the white supremist groups. That's where all his stuff on the illuminati, CFR, etc. came from. They have/had a magazine called the spotlight. For all you 7th corps, remember when we got our copies of the "secret constitution"? I still have mine. In the back is an order form for us to subscribe to the spotlight if we wanted more info. These are the guys who see conspiracy theories in everything the government does. Their political party is called the Populist party. VP would call their hotline to hear the latest. If was after listening to this stuff, that he would call a meeting, like when the commies were about to take over in the '70s and it was only our prayers that stopped it. Anyone remember that meeting at H.Q. - the whole malpack head for the hills thing, that was Liberty Lobby. Since he didn't tell where he was getting his info from, everyone thought he was walking with God and getting "heavy revy." We was scammed!" Johnny Jump Up: "In 1984 I had a guy in my branch who served in the Airforce during the body pick up from Jonestown. He discribed what the poisen did to the bodies and how they were found. He was one of the first on the sceen and He totaly contradicted what V.P. told us. I asked about missle silos and covert ops and black bag stuff. He said no it was exactly as was reported in the press - a cult leader led his people from california to Jonestown and killed them with purple kool-aid. Being that he was a new believer I didn't tell him the source of my information but his info added to my growing list of reasons to leave the way." Microbe: "I remember him telling the Corps about the times he would sit in a chair in his "room" for hours and hours, under such incredible stress that all he could do was hang on until it was clear that Michael had won that particular battle. It required his total concentration and nothing helped. People (his wife etc) had to just leave him alone in the dark for extended periods of time. He described it as something like mental torture. He stood in the GAP! He never mentioned Jesus Christ as far as I remember. At the time it sounded to me (not a doctor - ok) like the man was suffering anxiety attacks. He also said he had trouble sleeping and was seeking medical attention. His MD, a believer, of course dismissed this and calmed his concerns about mental stress. Of course he was sound minded-he just had to save the world!"

Some people have posted how vpw never did runs when he had everyone else running.... Just another sign of someone whose "superior" athletic prowess was all talk and no show.

Jonny Lingo: "I do remember the SNS tape "The Current Psychological Hoax", and listened to it while I was in Oregon. And I remember being appalled that anyone would think that The Way was anything like Jim Jones's cult. I do remember the impact that the news had on my twig though. I had a whole family coming to my twig, a retarded child and all, who, after hearing the news about the "colt" as they put it, ceased to come to fellowship anymore, and I was really pi$$ed about that. I was doing nothing more than teaching that family about Jesus Christ our Lord, and then wham! The "Oregonian" got to them and it was all over. Hacked me off big time."

For those who wonder what the poll said and can't read it now, I'm cross-posting something I posted back when we could read the results. . Someone suggested (insisted, really) that vpw was not only an athlete, but that he was an exceptional one, part of the tiny handful of people capable of great feats of athleticism. The exact words used previously about this was that he had "an OVERabundance of brains and brawn", and that he was "OVERgifted". and that "when he walked, the earth shook." I'm not going to address the other points at this time. For fun, I thought I'd recap his athletic accomplishments and what they mean and what they don't mean. vpw was on his high school varsity basketball team. The end. THAT was the end of his athletic "career." Oh, but wasn't he a professional ballplayer, and on his college's team, and so on? NO. He later (when he was used to getting away with all sorts of inflated claims) claimed he invented the hook shot (attributed to Lithuanian Pranas Talzunas or Harlem Globetrotter Goose Tatum, among possible others). However, his previous claims are easy to track. He said outright he was on his high school basketball team. He showed photos of that. He later said he "PLAYED BASKETBALL ALL THROUGH COLLEGE." He showed no team photos from college. Did he actually say he was on the team? No, he was deliberately vague-he prevaricated. He phrased it so people could mistakenly think he said he played on his college's varsity team. However, all he said actually was that he played all through college. If he played a game of pick-up once a semester, he "played basketball all through college." ANYBODY could do that if they could move freely around the court, dribble, pass and shoot, even if they could do none of them WELL. vpw was fond of inflating his credentials and claiming everything he had even a questionable right to claim. If he was on the varsity team, he would have said so and shown photos. He didn't even try to claim membership in the JV team. Furthermore, he "was involved with" the Sheboygan Redskins team. Again, people thought that meant he played on the team. Someone even read that claim in "TW:LiL", cited their source, and claimed he played on the team. But their source for that was the sentence where he said he was "involved with" the Sheboygan Redskins. What WAS his association? Did he take them out for ice cream after the games? Was he the waterboy? Did he sweep up after the game? We only know he wasn't actually on the team as a player because someone once went through the roster of the entire history of the team, and his name does not appear ANYWHERE. So, we can either speculate that he was on the team but somehow absent from every record, or we can avoid being unforgivably stupid and accept that he was never on the team and never claimed he was. So, in short, vpw's career as an athlete goes all the way up to high school graduation and ends there, never joining a team or competing at any level. =========================================================== How does that stack up against the general population? I took a poll and started a thread here some years ago, asking about everyone else's levels of involvement. About 40% of GSC posters actually exceeded vpw's athletic achievements, either because they were on the college varsity team, or because they competed NATIONALLY at a sport (i.e, was eligible to be considered for the Olympic team),, and so on. All actual athletes, Including me. *holds up his varsity letter* The percentage of posters who were athletes at least to his level (meaning, high school varsity or higher) jumped into the 60s. That means more than 1/2 the posters who responded were athletes at least to the level of vpw, with most of those exceeding his accomplishments. ========================================================= Those are the actual, record-able participations we're discussing, things a matter of record. In those, vpw was shown to be strictly AVERAGE in athletic accomplishments. What about BEYOND college and tournaments and national competitions? As to that, vpw would be the first to LEAP forward and trumpet his participation and involvement. Yet, we have a tremendous silence on that front. We have him HINTING about a team in college and outside college, but never having the nerve to just outright lie and claim he was on either team. He also never had any anecdotes of athletic accomplishments otherwise. We don't have him claiming he used to preach to the trees then chop down record numbers of them. We never have him claiming to have performed some leaps, swimming, or even hiking accomplishments of any note. (I imagine that somewhere, sometime, he talked about walking while hunting, but I'm talking about LONG walks like a marathon or any size.) What does that leave? vpw's accomplishments-and thus, all measurable yardsticks of his athletic ability- end at high school varsity, and after that vanish into some vague double-talk that never directly claims he was on the college team or any other team. It's all smoke and hot air. Even his own father said he never worked hard on the farm. By any measurable standard, wierwille was average and lukewarm AT BEST, and underperformed almost 1/2 the GSC posters in athletics. Naturally, it's still possible to insist on discarding both the facts and the logic, but that's on the head of the person determined to do exactly that.

That's still Bob Dylan. Subway something-something.

Actually, I said she uses self-rising flour- which contains baking powder and baking soda in it already. Whatever the percentages normally are for self-rising flour, that's the percentage she uses.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000510234811/http://www.waydale.com/main/docs-main.html https://web.archive.org/web/20011129230710/http://www.greasespotcafe.com:80/ For those who want the main menus to use...

I know the artist, but I don't have the title.

I'm sure I'd enjoy the series, if I were into movies. I'm really behind on my movie-watching.

I was never on Waydale either. I arrived when the GSC was an ezboard. (I miss ezboards.) Bolshevik: "I was never on or looked online at Waydale." "I don't know what you talked about on there" So, you have an axe to grind about a website you never visited and never read, that closed down some 25 years or so ago...... "This thread is to document the evils of Waydale and the like." If my memory serves- and it usually does- then you're the first person to post complaints about Waydale and its content- at least on the GSC (unless they posted that right on Waydale or on the brand-new GSC- but if either was true, wouldn't someone have complained about them in the decades since? "I doubt a website has any real affect on leadership of The Way any more the angry shouts of people driving down Wierwille Road late at night and the random acts of vandalism. Usually people who are not leadership end up on the receiving end. " Your perspective on this was in error. As OldSkool pointed out, Waydale had an enormous impact on the bod, as well as impacts among the rank-and-file.... not even counting people who left twi and found Waydale or the GSC before considering a return to twi. Waydale and the GSC have had an enormous impact on recruiting and retention in twi by shining a light on what was kept hidden and dark. "People would print off items from the sites. Family, friends, worried family of friends. I was accused of being a danger of wife-swapping and whatnot. I was a teenager. I don't know what you talked about on there, but F U. You were an ally to TWI. When you struck, TWI was there with open arms. " Since you never even saw the site, I can't guarantee what they printed out was even content from Waydale. If it was their content, it's very easy to take something out of context and pretend you did not- all in attempts to make the previous person look foolish. twi desperately wanted to silence Waydale, and silenced Waydale- by settling out of court and paying hush-money. twi painted Waydale as a threat- and threat it was. They painted the settlement as a victory- when it was an admission of guilt- because they were less worried about the admission of guilt than that Waydale was exposing all their secrets to their members/followers. In the case of the GSC, that got so bad once that twi regulars were more used to getting twi news from the GSC than from twi, that when the story broke about Mrs W being sent to live in a foster home, that twi DEMANDED they be allowed to post something on the GSC as a rebuttal to the exposure of what they were doing. It sounds like the problem wasn't Waydale, nor even its content, but the a-holes still in twi who went out of their way to take content out of context and then attack you with it.

Waysider posted this originally. REPOST Posted 29 July 2006 - 08:42 PM A number of years ago a young couple, who were friends of mine, asked me to attend a business oportunity meeting they were going to present for a small group of people. Their description of what was to be presented was very vague . This vagueness was , of course , intentional. My suspicion was that this would be a recruitment meeting for Axway. The gentleman conducting the meeting stated very early on that there were to be no questions until the end. Sound familiar? Well, as the meeting progressed, he showed how, if Bob recruited Joe, and Joe recruited Betty, And Betty recruited Connie , and Connie RECRUITED----------in the end we would all be filthy rich. People raised their hands to ask questions as he spoke, but he continued to assure everyone all questions would be answered at the end. When he finally revealed that the product this company sold was actually soap, an elderly lady, who seemed harmless enough, raised her hand from the back row. The man running the meeting let down his guard for just a moment and said "yes ma'am?". She immediately stood up and said "Who the hell is supposed to sell the SOAP?' It kind of makes me wonder "who the hell was supposed to LIVE the abundant life?" Not complaining-------just pondering.