WordWolf

Everything useful on the topic's already been said! :) It was vague so twi could make it mean whatever they wanted, to get people to do whatever twi wanted them to do, which was usually to promote twi, run classes, etc.

1."Hello, and welcome to "TV Car Trivia!" First question, who was the driver of a '73 Firebird? Uh, Otto?" 2."Uh, Jim Rockford, "Rockford Files"." 3."Gimme "Columbo"." 4."A Peugeot convertible." 1."What color?" 4."Gray." 5."How do you know that?" 4."'Cause I love that show." 5."Man, I got three words for all of y'all: Get a life!" 6."What's on Magnum P.I.'s license plate?" 7."ROBIN-1" 4."Wait, wasn't Robin that faggoty guy that always hung with him?" 8."Naw, that was Higgins. That was Higgins." 2."Hey, hey, ten points for our fearless leader. Sway, how about giving us the Bill Bixby trifecta?" 3."Drove a Corvette in "The Magician", a Ford pickup truck in "The Incredible Hulk", and in "The Courtship of Eddie's Father", he walked. " This remake did well enough in the box office, but I can't help think part of that was due to the advertising. One supporting character was made to look like a main character with most of the screen-time. This is one of the appearances in media of the "coroner with an iron stomach" type of thing. When one character answers the phone, he's at work in a crematorium. He puts down his sandwich- on the corpse- to answer the phone. "If his unpleasant wounding has in some way enlightened the rest of you as to the grim finish beneath the glossy veneer of criminal life, then his injuries carry with it an inherent nobility, and a supreme glory. We should all be so fortunate. You say 'poor Toby'? I say 'poor us'. " Cast includes Delroy Lindo, Christopher Eccleston, Giovanni Ribisi, Arye Gross. "Well, without disappointment, you cannot appreciate victory." "Did Eleanor tell you that?" "Well that's hitting below the belt." " One: You kill me, they kill you, your brother dies anyway. Two: You lie, you accept the job, you take your brother, you run. I hunt you down, I kill you, I kill your brother and I kill your mother for the aggravation you cause me. Three: You accept the job, you steal some cars, you make some money, and you be a big brother."

Dr Fu Manchu Grigori Rasputin Mycroft Holmes Jonathan Blair Bernard Day Chris Lewis Sir Felix Raybourne Georges Seurat Harry Cooper Lt Cdr Dick Raikes, RN Karaga Pasha John Preston Franz Vermes Gil Rossi Charles Highbury Marquis St. Evremonde Sir Henry Baskerville Dr. Pierre Gerard Prof. Alan Driscoll Paul Allen Capt. Wolfgang von Kleinschmidt Mephistoles Count Ludwig Karnstein Prof. Karl Meister Franklyn Marsh Sir Matthew Phillips Philippe Darvas Godfrey Hanson Lord George Jeffreys John Reid Col. Charles Bingham James Hildern Sir Alexander Saxton Lord Summerisle Dr. Stephen Hayward Martin Wallace

No, not a comedian.

I'll give you another minute, then I'll post more clues or something.

Well, a man's house is his castle...is it "CASTLE?" What else was Nathan Fillon in? I think there was a cop show.... "The Rookie?"

It was TheEvan. 1/17/2005. On page 3 of the thread, "Craig and VP's relationship." "Back to Leonard. Being cataloger of old photos and such, surely you are familiar with the photos of Wierwille's first two "PFAL" classes? Well, most everybody was, as they were published often enough. Did you ever see the rest of them? Like the ones picturing the water baptisms? I did. But i didn't see them in Da Way. I saw them in some old newsletters displayed at BG Leonard's 90th birthday party, which we hosted for him. I was just casually leafing through some old ones and you can imagine the jolt I got when my eyes landed on a familiar picture. It was the old "1st Piffle Class" photo I'd seen so many times. As you know, Wierwille had recently taken Leonard's class. He returned to O-hiya to teach Leonard's class with Leonard's blessing. The accompanying article was about this Rev. Wierwille teaching CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to members of his congregatin in O-hiya. Hmmm. Turns out wierwille lied to the man, co-oted the man's work as his own. FAMILIAR PATTERN!"

It was TheEvan, not dmiller, who posted it. "Back to Leonard. Being cataloger of old photos and such, surely you are familiar with the photos of Wierwille's first two "PFAL" classes? Well, most everybody was, as they were published often enough. Did you ever see the rest of them? Like the ones picturing the water baptisms? I did. But i didn't see them in Da Way. I saw them in some old newsletters displayed at BG Leonard's 90th birthday party, which we hosted for him. I was just casually leafing through some old ones and you can imagine the jolt I got when my eyes landed on a familiar picture. It was the old "1st Piffle Class" photo I'd seen so many times. As you know, Wierwille had recently taken Leonard's class. He returned to O-hiya to teach Leonard's class with Leonard's blessing. The accompanying article was about this Rev. Wierwille teaching CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to members of his congregatin in O-hiya. Hmmm. Turns out wierwille lied to the man, co-oted the man's work as his own. FAMILIAR PATTERN!" (From the thread, "Craig and VP's relationship", page 3. 1/17/2005)

BTW, TheEvan's post was on the thread "Craig and VP's relationship?" and was about 1/2way down the 3rd page. Craig and VP's relationship? - Page 3 - About The Way - GreaseSpot Cafe

This got lost in the middle of the thread.

Ok, I was wrong, It was TheEvan who posted about Leonard. " (1/17/05, 12:04pm) "...surely you are familiar with the photos of Wierwille's first two 'PFAL' classes? Well, most everybody was, as they were published often enough. Did you ever see the rest of them? Like the ones picturing the water baptisms? I did. But I didn't see them in Da Way. I saw them in some old newsletters displayed at BG Leonard's 90th birthday party, which we hosted for him. I was just casually leafing through some old ones and you can imagine the jolt I got when my eyes landed on a familiar picture. It was the old "1st Piffle Class" photo I'd seen so many times. As you know, Wierwille had recently taken Leonard's class. He returned to O-hiya to teach Leonard's class with Leonard's blessing. The accompanying article was about this Rev. Wierwille teaching CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to members of his congregation in O-hiya. Turns out wierwille lied to the man, co-opted the man's work as his own. FAMILIAR PATTERN! All of which disqualifies him in any way from having been in public ministry of any kind. Period. However you burnish it and photograph it with a warm hazy glow, the conclusion is clear in the harsh light of day." ======================= My reply...... [Here's what that means in plainer English. vpw takes Leonard's class. vpw REtakes Leonard's class. vpw then goes off for a few months by himself. vpw tells Leonard "I'd like to run your CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to my local congregation." Leonard concludes that this would bless that single congregation, and approves this, giving his blessing for this one Gifts of the Spirit class. vpw then prepares to run "his" class-using Leonard's material but slapping his name on it, and calling it "Power For Abundant Living" rather than "Gifts of the Spirit". While vpw tells the new students it is HIS class, he tells Leonard he is running LEONARD's class, and even provides Leonard with a copy of the class photos for Leonard's scrapbook. Leonard, trusting other Christians as he does, believes vpw and does not realize vpw is lying through his teeth until later, after vpw has run several of "his" classes.]

Ok, StayedTooLong posted this Aug 18, 2022 on this thread. However, he posted it inside someone else's quote, so you had to compare the original post to see that STL had added it. I think that was all accidental- especially when it was important. Here's what he posted: ================================ "I can definitely relate to the slow indoctrination TWI put me through. As a completely broken man, I was sitting at a lunch counter one afternoon and a WOWII entered the restaurant and sat on the stool next to me. He started up a cordial conversation discussing the university I was attending. Soon the subject turned to the bible about a man bring saved by grace and not of works. This was something that rocked my world for the better. I was living under such condemnation being taught by the RC, and believed there was no way I was not going to hell when I died. It had permeated my entire being and all my thoughts and movements. To hear I had eternal life and absolutely nothing could take it away, lifted my spirits like nothing ever had in the past. I was mentally free at last. As time progressed, and I began to see cracks in how TWI conducted itself, I refused to believe it because they had saved my life. I did not want to acknowledge this life saving group was a fraud. As an example, our limb guy had met B.G. Leonard, who was reaching his class on the holy spirit in our state. We were insructed by our limb leader to takes Leonard’s class, and what an eye opener it was for all of us. We all knew by heart the definitions of the gifts of the holy spirit, because of taking PFAL. It became crystal clear Wierwille had plagiarized Leonard’s class, but in my mind I refused to believe it, because it would destroy the ministry that had taken be from almost death to life. I refused to believe all the other crap that came to life after the fog years, also. It took about 20 more years for me to finally admit to myself TWI and VPW were a fraud. I had been so indoctrinated, without my knowledge, that TWI had the only truth from God’s word, and any other group was of the devil. Thankfully, they actually M&A me, so I had to leave. " ====================== Here's what T-Bone replied the same day. (He'd written the original post and knew what part was added.) "Wow STL, that’s the first I’ve heard of someone other than wierwille sitting through BG Leonard’s class. I imagine that would be an eye-opening experience. I tell you how indoctrinated I was – for my 12 years of involvement it never occurred to me wierwille had plagiarized Bullinger’s work…and I had bought Bullinger’s How to Enjoy the Bible in TWI’s bookstore right after I took PFAL – and it was a fav of mine. Not like Bullinger was 100% right on everything – but at the time, comparing PFAL with How to Enjoy the Bible - my pea-brain saw it as two very intelligent people coming up with the same ideas…Guess it was a Kool-Aid inducement of great minds think alike. I’m glad you left! thanks for sharing such a revealing experience – and as always, I appreciate your thoughtful input. ============================================= Now that I saw all that, I can respond. [Actually, attending Leonard's class while in twi or even ex-twi is rare, but this wasn't the first post on the subject. TheEvan posted on it Jan 17, 2005, 12:04pm.] "...surely you are familiar with the photos of Wierwille's first two 'PFAL' classes? Well, most everybody was, as they were published often enough. Did you ever see the rest of them? Like the ones picturing the water baptisms? I did. But I didn't see them in Da Way. I saw them in some old newsletters displayed at BG Leonard's 90th birthday party, which we hosted for him. I was just casually leafing through some old ones and you can imagine the jolt I got when my eyes landed on a familiar picture. It was the old "1st Piffle Class" photo I'd seen so many times. As you know, Wierwille had recently taken Leonard's class. He returned to O-hiya to teach Leonard's class with Leonard's blessing. The accompanying article was about this Rev. Wierwille teaching CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to members of his congregation in O-hiya. Turns out wierwille lied to the man, co-opted the man's work as his own. FAMILIAR PATTERN! " ================================ [I had responded. Here's what that means in plainer English. vpw takes Leonard's class. vpw REtakes Leonard's class. vpw then goes off for a few months by himself. vpw tells Leonard "I'd like to run your CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to my local congregation." Leonard concludes that this would bless that single congregation, and approves this, giving his blessing for this one Gifts of the Spirit class. vpw then prepares to run "his" class-using Leonard's material but slapping his name on it, and calling it "Power For Abundant Living" rather than "Gifts of the Spirit". While vpw tells the new students it is HIS class, he tells Leonard he is running LEONARD's class, and even provides Leonard with a copy of the class photos for Leonard's scrapbook. Leonard, trusting other Christians as he does, believes vpw and does not realize vpw is lying through his teeth until later, after vpw has run several of "his" classes."]

King James Bible Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. ==================================== That reminds me. When vpw taught on this very verse, he made an amazingly obvious mistake. He read that out loud. Then he said that they had no reward. Uh, reading may be fundamental, but comprehension is essential! Didn't he understand all the words he just read? The hypocrites made a public display of their religious giving. Why? "THAT THEY MAY HAVE GLORY OF MEN." So, people could applaud them and say what generous people they are. THAT is their reward. For all the good it does them. And they accept that and do it FOR that reward. But vpw said they had NO reward. Now, they may not have had any reward FROM GOD, but they had A reward, and it was one of their own choosing. IIRC, that was right in pfal. I tried not to dwell on it, but every single time that was played, that bothered me. It was an incredibly obvious mistake to make. I mean, if I misspoke and said that, I'd turn around and immediately CORRECT MYSELF for misspeaking. vpw just went on as if that made perfect sense. Sometimes I think he just recited stuff by rote, as in "if it's on the teleprompter, he'll read it aloud no matter what it says."

1."Hello, and welcome to "TV Car Trivia!" First question, who was the driver of a '73 Firebird? Uh, Otto?" 2."Uh, Jim Rockford, "Rockford Files"." 3."Gimme "Columbo"." 4."A Peugeot convertible." 1."What color?" 4."Gray." 5."How do you know that?" 4."'Cause I love that show." 5."Man, I got three words for all of y'all: Get a life!" 6."What's on Magnum P.I.'s license plate?" 7."ROBIN-1" 4."Wait, wasn't Robin that faggoty guy that always hung with him?" 8."Naw, that was Higgins. That was Higgins." 2."Hey, hey, ten points for our fearless leader. Sway, how about giving us the Bill Bixby trifecta?" 3."Drove a Corvette in "The Magician", a Ford pickup truck in "The Incredible Hulk", and in "The Courtship of Eddie's Father", he walked. " This remake did well enough in the box office, but I can't help think part of that was due to the advertising. One supporting character was made to look like a main character with most of the screen-time. This is one of the appearances in media of the "coroner with an iron stomach" type of thing. When one character answers the phone, he's at work in a crematorium. He puts down his sandwich- on the corpse- to answer the phone. "If his unpleasant wounding has in some way enlightened the rest of you as to the grim finish beneath the glossy veneer of criminal life, then his injuries carry with it an inherent nobility, and a supreme glory. We should all be so fortunate. You say 'poor Toby'? I say 'poor us'. " Cast includes Delroy Lindo, Christopher Eccleston, Giovanni Ribisi, Arye Gross.

Next round. Dr Fu Manchu Grigori Rasputin Mycroft Holmes Jonathan Blair Bernard Day Chris Lewis Sir Felix Raybourne Georges Seurat Harry Cooper Lt Cdr Dick Raikes, RN Karaga Pasha John Preston Franz Vermes Gil Rossi Charles Highbury

I can't over-emphasize how little I actually watch movies compared to the movies I actually have at hand to watch...... Um, let's see, Viola Davis, IIRC, played one version of the (why is she thin?) Amanda Walker. Margot Robbie's best=known for Harleen Quinzell. John Cena did a fantastic turn on TV as "Peacemaker." (Wow, can't remember the identity.) Unless it's a remarkable coincidence, those characters would meet up in "SUICIDE SQUAD."

Incredibly wild swing..... "HOUSE"?????

What's that noise?

I've noticed that the "proof-text" verses for the supposed keys to walking by the spirit usually didn't have anything to do with what they were supposedly proving.

I remember reading someone addressing this. "There are masters of a thing, and there are Masters of a thing." Even if one is highly skilled at something, there is no guarantee that person is any good at teaching others that same skill. They used the example of Bruce Lee- expert martial artist, champion in tournaments, designed his own effective style from the ground up- but not very good at TEACHING all of that. Jeet Kune Do was learned, and is still taught, but not because he was great at teaching. But, yes, all the fuss about teaching the Bible is not a guarantee anyone at twi is any good at teaching it. For that matter, all the fuss about teaching the Bible is no guarantee anyone at twi is any good at studying or researching the Bible. Oh, they're confident in their own abilities, and confident that outsiders are incompetent, but reality is under no constraint to humor their delusions about either. There's plenty of talented Christians who are never-been-way.

vpw wouldn't know military procedure if it bit him in the ankle. vpw never went into the military. vpw never went into the Reserve. vpw never went into the National Guard. vpw never went into the ROTC. When WWII was in the distance, vpw entered divinity school, which just happened to move him out of the pool of possible draft candidates. Anyone who thinks that's a coincidence when he'd previously been dithering over entering business or music, well, what can I say? vpw never had any immediate family or immediate friends enter the military, or even anything else I mentioned above. All vpw knew about the military was what it said in the movies and on TV. If he'd really loved the Marines, he'd have JOINED the Marines. What he loved was the appearance, the "bark an order and they do it" thing. He had no idea what it was to BE a Marine. He never even participated in tabletop general exercises for fun. So, the only thing he liked about generals was the "I get to bark an order and they have to obey" thing from entertainment. Anything behind it didn't even exist for him.

[While it is BS, it's not really ORIGINAL BS. In twi, the "Keys to Walking By the Spirit" included one that claimed that "Speaking in tongues daily is requisite to revelation." In other words, if you want revelation from God Almighty, you need to SIT first. The only explanation I ever heard of that was that, if you want God to speak to you, you should be speaking to Him. It's so obviously BS I wouldn't know where to start. People speak to God all the time, using a regular voice. People pray to God all the time, using a regular voice. People get revelation all the time, some of whom NEVER SIT. So, other than "that's what this group teaches," there's no reason to believe it. If you're going to follow lcm BLINDLY like he insisted on once, you'll swallow all of this nonsense without questioning it. There's always someone willing to go off a cliff with little justification.]

[Ok, take it as a given that lcm has not matured past his twi experiences fundamentally, and some other people have not, as well. So, why does he do it? He wants and expects an audience if he teaches, and his self-esteem is attached to it, as well. So, he's going to keep speaking and teaching as long as he can find a medium in which to do so. Why is anyone reading/listening to his stuff? They haven't grown up, either. They spent their lives in a holding pattern, circling and want a return to what they think of as "normalcy." One version of that would be listening to lcm. I don't think that's MANY people, but there's a small subset of ex-twi to whom that applies. After all, there was a tiny handful who worshipped vpw and his stuff as if he wrote a new, improved Bible. Again, this is self-correcting over the long run because almost none of their kids would consider following lockstep like this, when other options are so easy to find. There's still plenty of ex-twi who associate with each other, but most of them won't follow lcm like this. And many of them are associating with each other AND OTHER CHRISTIANS. So, even ex-twi groups often differ from twi in fundamental ways like respecting fellow Christians. No, I don't think lcm has addressed his mistakes nor the lives he messed up, and I don't think he ever will.]

Since nobody said so outright, I'll say it so it's clear.... She's as welcome here as anyone else. Her posts are welcome, and if we can help her in some manner, we would like to.

Right! People who actually earned an accredited degree don't insist on being called "Doctor" all the time. vpw's insistence on being addressed by his unaccredited "doctor" is really more about insecurity than anything else.