WordWolf

"the sympathy card could be an old, attention loving creep's ploys for attention. I wasn't around then, but if passing of a patriarch is to be believed, then vic had been put out to pasture and outshined by Martindale...maybe vic was ready to let the responsibility go but not the spotlight...That would explain all the pity potty garbage that came out of him towards the end of his life. " I don't question that the pity-party was in effect- I'm confident it was. I might disagree about what affected what, however. vpw had to step down due to his body pretty much deteriorating. vpw had smoked and drank HEAVILY for decades, and the resulting cancer was killing him, starting with his eye and his liver, and was going to keep going after his entire body in a progressive wave of destruction. On top of that, he was getting old- and looked the worse for wear due to the heavy drinking and smoking. So, he had to have an eye removed and used a glass eye prosthetic. That bothered him on many levels, not the least of which was his vanity. His approaching mortality had to be a subject that came up, as well. vpw was never a mature man, nor a wise man. His reactions would not have demonstrated that, and that's no surprise. So, he handed over the reins to lcm because he had to. He'd previously puffed up lcm's ego, and had previously made twi a one-man show. Now, all of that was going to work against him. Now someone else was ALL the show. So, suddenly, vpw went from the central figure to someone on the outside who was easily shoved-aside and ignored. Those who knew him well knew how immature he was and often how difficult he was, and now they didn't HAVE to deal with him- so they didn't. The new big cheese was lcm, so everyone focused on him- and lcm didn't waste time making everything about him, either. If ANYTHING happened in twi that got some kind of notice, he HAD to be in the middle. High Country Caravan? He was on it. Tom Burke did a satirical album? lcm made an intro. Bands showed up onstage? lcm, despite neither singing nor playing an instrument, often ended up on the stage by the end, in time for the applause. AOS was only the cherry on the sundae. Yes, vpw wanted attention. Yes, he went overseas so cgeer could pretend he was important and kowtow to him. vpw ranted to him at length about a lot of nonsense, and predicted all sorts of things about twi that completely failed to come to pass.

When I first heard it was a few years ago. One poster said they were friends with someone who had lived on-grounds at the time and was one of the last few people to see vpw alive. That person told about how vpw was stressing himself in his final hours, trying to figure that one out. If I was depicting a fraud Christian leader who was at Death's Door (whether myself or someone else), I'd expect the person to approach death with a lot more peace in themself, and prayers for those outliving them. "My conscience is bothering me" for someone who normally went around sinning is an odd choice. "My conscience is clear and I'm ready to face my God now or next in my perception" is what I'd expect to see. It's also how Pope John Paul II seemed to face death. From eyewitness accounts, it looked like he was praying for the Catholics as a whole right when he died. (My interpretation of the description; your mileage may vary.) Perhaps, from the perspective of a more innocent person, vpw's comments may sound a lot more innocent. Later comments certainly did- blaming everyone around him for "helping kill" him with insufficient believing, "he died of a broken heart", bs like that. He certainly fed a line of bull cookies like that to geer- who wrote it down and confronted the bot not long after vpw died. But, at the same time, it's also possible to see the other comments as coming from someone who had numbed his own conscience, who only suspect he'd made some kind of mistake and displeased God because he wasn't getting miraculous healing, not because he knew what behavior would displease God and avoided all of it as best he knew how.

The quote were: one of Raj's clues on his scavenger hunt, Amy prepping for her wedding and worried about her mother ruining it, Sheldon and Leonard, Sheldon photo-shopping people into the wedding photos for his and Amy's wedding, Stuart and Denise closing the Comic Center of Pasadena early because it might be the apocalypse, Howard thinking about his limits of what he can teach his son and Raj catching how short his list was, Bernadette and Howard, with Bernadette determined to get her new baby out the scheduled day no matter what, Amy and Penny during Amy and Sheldon's secret contest on who should be their Maid of Honor and Best Man, (more recognizable) Raj and his dad, with Dad complaining Raj is neither married nor living within his own salary, Howard and Bernadette when Howard was amazed over the developing baby that Bernadette was already tired of, Sheldon kicked a rock in anger over Bert getting an award and Sheldon injuring both feet on the rock, the US Army rep cancelling their contract with the US Army for the new tech development. As a show that lasted more than 10 seasons and had at least 1 spinoff, that really limited the possible number of correct answers. The spinoff, of course, is "Young Sheldon."

That's it. Mrs Wolf got it from "leave no stone unturned" - a clue in Raj's scavenger hunt.

I think you've the right of it. He wasn't sorry of the sins he'd committed- he'd convinced themselves they weren't sins or they didn't count. What he regretted was he lacked his storied "super-believer" ability to instantly heal up when he believed. He bought into his own press and thought he could do it.

In fairness, I probably quoted Crowley and named LaVey by accident. (It's not like I normally go around reading their stuff.) It's interesting (to me, if no one else), that modern paganism uses the modified "An it hurt no one, do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, " which adds the "don't hurt anyone" clause. So, college students experimenting with it for the first time know that you should start by knowing not to hurt people. It should be more than self-evident to anyone who's got at least a casual relationship with the Bible, as well. Yet, some self-proclaimed "experts" in the Bible, self-proclaimed "Teachers" sometimes not only are fine hurting people as a matter of course, but later can't remember ever doing anything wrong. That's something that I still marvel over- vpw, on his deathbed, supposedly wracked his memory, looking for some incident or action whereby he displeased God Almighty. He was unable to find one- despite the molestations, druggings, rapes, plagiarism, simony, gluttony.....

"She keeps Moët et Chandon in her pretty cabinet."

This well-known show lasted more than 10 seasons and had at least 1 spin-off.

I'm sure OldSkool already knows this, but in case any of you want a reminder.... The occult stuff of vpw began pretty early in pfal (and TWLiL). vpw invented those 2 rich businessmen, and their claim to success was that they locked themselves away each day, sat in silence, and THOUGHT about prosperity, and it happened. There were never names nor specifics because these men were made up to "support" vpw's claims. Quotes to the Bible were light, because forcing a connection was tenuous at best, and there was no real connection between the verses and vpw's claims. Then there was the "traveling salesman" who vpw "counseled" because the man was dwelling on a possible crash while driving. Again, vpw invented him to support his "believing in reverse" thing. Finally, there was the woman who murdered her son. She dwelt on her fears, and those fears jumped up and killed her son. vpw didn't counsel her to stop before it was too late- because she was imaginary and she was there to reinforce how fear can hurt and kill by making things happen. Satanist Anton LaVey would have agreed with vpw about thinking to change things. He said that magic was meant to make reality conform to will. That sounds like it's right out of pfal (except for the word "magic.")

"Wait, so you're just gonna take all the work we've done for the last year and toss us aside?" "That one I can tell you. Yes." "Well, this is all very upsetting." "I'm sorry to hear that. As you know, the primary focus of the United States military is people's feelings." "Wait, if that's sarcasm, please save it for our enemies!"

"There's a baby in there!" Oh, yeah-THAT'S where I put it." "Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow..." "What happened?" "I tried to let go of anger, and threw a rock into my foot." "Then, he got more angry and kicked the rock with his other foot." "What?! And what happened to you?!" "Oh, I laughed so hard, I burst a blood vessel in my nose! It's fine!"

Is it "Knockin' On Heaven's Door"?

vpw worked for the Evangelical and Reformed Church. It's interesting that- although they had colleges and institutions of learning- that vpw didn't go to any of those for any level of his education. Ok, according to TWLiL, vpw said that in 1957, Uncle Harry proposed changing the farm to a new headquarters, and that work began on that in 1959, and they moved in Feb 1961. (For reasons never explained, Mrs W said they moved in the middle of a big snowstorm, which I think is wildly impractical.) vpw said he had a BOD meeting for his congregation, and the president thought vpw should move things to Troy rather than out on a farm- probably because that's where the congregation was (Troy.) In 1961, meetings were in the house's basement since that's what was completed and could hold a meeting at the time. Let's see. Graduated Lakeland College 1937 (Bachelors). Graduated Princeton Theological Seminary 1941 (Masters.) He did "trial sermons" in Payne Ohio for the ERC, 1941. According to his memorial, in 1941 July he began work with his first pastorate, and received his ordination July 29, 1941. This conflicts with TWLiL, where he started his first pastorate anywhere in 1944 in Van Wert, and stayed there until 1957. According to TWLiL and other sources, he did a radio show in the 1940s and other side jobs not related to his pastorate all through the 1940s and 1950s. In 1952/1953, he encountered/plagiarized Leonard's class and Stiles' book, and peddled both as his own work. vpw's overseas tour was supposedly 1955-1956. In 1957. supposedly, he returned to Van Wert, and cut all ties with the ERC. In 1957, the ERC as a body merged with the Congregational Christian Churches to form the United Church of Christ. I don't think it's a coincidence that this was the time vpw jumped ship. The church was going to undergo changes, he'd already sponged some long trip from SOMEBODY, and he had a class and book to sell. He tried to keep his congregation, and tried to move things permanently to the farm. Strictly speaking, I've never seen an ordination certificate. I think he got SOMETHING, but probably used the easiest path to get it. He found a pretext to be called "Dr", so getting "Reverend" would have been easier. Heck, we can get that now easily enough if we don't sweat the source. I think that it was true that vpw preached/ did sermons, usually ripping something off of someone else's work. That's been his M.O. all along. So, I think he applied based on his paperwork, showed up, and did the "trial sermons". I think they took him on as a probationary pastor, then made it permanent some time later. I think his story about teaching for a month on tithing was complete fiction- since it would have interfered with getting placed as a permanent pastor. He didn't spend the work to get a pastorate just to have to start all over. He was smart enough not to rock the boat when he could be replaced so quickly and easily. Later, it was easy to lie about that with no consequences, and we got all the versions of the story about how he rocked the boat the first month and fixated on tithing. It makes sense, and matches the evidence.

lcm got the idea for "athletes of the spirit" in college, where the expression was already in use in Christian organizations. It came up again after college because Glenn Clark, one of the people vpw plagiarized, and his "camps furthest out" (ripped off for camps, and other outdoorsy stuff) included "athletes of the spirit" also. (None of those words are uncommon in usage in the English language.) When lcm saw the John Travolta film "Staying Alive", he got the idea to do the 2-hour production that greatly resembled some of the dance scenes in the movie. There is no need to look further for the inspiration.

We're still around. The short of it was, the Politics section was making the GSC no longer worth maintaining for the staff. Since the Politics section was NOT necessary for the GSC (and wasn't even a thing for several years until 9/11 happened) the staff decided to jettison all the politics and keep EVERYTHING else. (It was more work to moderate the Politics than all the rest put together, and it was a stressful, thankless job.) So, you're free to post anything you could before- so long as it is NOT political.

| I was talking to my favorite aunt." "Aunt Felda right?" "Yeah." "Did she ever figure what that thing on her knee was?" "Turned out to be a chocolate chip." "That makes sense, she does love to bake." "She does, you are a thoroughbred!" "You're an adult who can't get by without an allowance from his parents. Women don't want that." "What are you saying? That you're giving up on me? What kind of father gives up on his son?" "I have six children, five of whom are married and self-sufficient. I don't think I'm the problem."

There were probably a few, but this isn't any of them.

That's it.

Philosophy didn't "resolve" this- because philosophy NEVER "resolves" anything. It's entirely about the journey, and reaching the destination/RESOLVING something is antithetical to it. I confirmed that when taking a Philosophy class alongside a friend. He came to conclusions. He saw me write " off-the-cuff" quickly and write that we can't come to a definite conclusion. He spent over an hour on his work, I spent several minutes, and I got a higher grade. (He asked to study with me after that.)

The phrasing was memorable. "...she had a need. And the need was, 'they might as well be red drapes.'" Only in twi can the definition of a "need" include "they might as well" in it.

"Heck, now I'm having a son. I'll have to teach him how to play sports, and watch sports, and-and-and-and-and..." "He just ran out of "Man Things", he's in trouble." "My mother's texting you? "Yeah, we've been talking a lot lately." "Why? Is she sick of talking to the Magic Mirror on the wall?" "No, I think she's lonely. She's been reaching out." "Wake up. It's time." "Oh. Did your water break?" "No." "Are you feeling any contractions?" "No." "Wait. Well, where are you going?" "To the hospital. Today's my due date, and this crap needs to end now."

Ok, has this thread gone as far as it can go and still actually say something, or is it down to ONLY insults and catcalling?

That's it.

"Remember when you were young. and you shone like the sun?"

In fairness, that was a bit too short....