WordWolf

No. Knowing twi, someone THERE misspelled it as "duel" and everyone in the region had to go along.

According to page 1 of that thread, you can flip to page 177 and begin reading from there- that's where she's first mentioned.

We broke all this down in the thread "The Way- Living in Wonderland." I included the page numbers there TWICE- once to post text before commenting, and once when I began commenting. https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/7363-the-wayliving-in-wonderland/ Feel free to requote it here.

"I heat up, I can't cool down."

If you look at the way vpw phrased himself in TW:LiL, you will agree. He hints at a "dalliance" and that it was all her doing- making him the object rather than the doer of deeds. Back then, vpw considered himself a LOT more powerless- or he was busy turning all the blame on her. (This is independent of him being let go from his denomination over his "indiscretion" with a church secretary.)

He knew it because he was in vpw's inner circle, an equivalent to where the RCC has their cardinals, so he was privy to a LOT of things- like vpw's secret stash of "original" books he (vpw) plagiarized freely.

As for George Mueller and the Sardian, here's the best account I can find, recounted a few weeks later. https://www.georgemuller.org/devotional/my-eye-is-not-on-the-fog2874126 My Eye Is Not On the Fog 6/10/2016 7 Comments Charles Inglis, the well-known evangelist, relates the following remarkable incident: "When I first came to America thirty-one years ago, I crossed the Atlantic with the captain of a steamer who was one of the most devoted men I ever knew; and when we were off the banks of Newfoundland he said to me: 'Mr. Inglis, the last time' I crossed here, five weeks ago, one of the most extraordinary things happened that has completely revolutionized the whole of my Christian life. Up to that time I was one of your ordinary Christians. We had a man of God on board, George Mueller, of Bristol. I had been on that bridge for twenty-two hours and never left it. I was startled by someone tapping me on the shoulder. It was George Mueller. Captain,' said he, 'I have come to tell you that I must be in Quebec on Saturday afternoon.' This was Wednesday. It is impossible,' I said. Very well, if your ship can't take me God will find some other means of locomotion to take me. I have never broken an engagement in fifty-seven years.' I would willingly help you, but how can I? I am helpless.' Let us go down to the chart room and pray,' he said. "I looked at this man and I thought to myself, 'What lunatic asylum could the man have come from? I never heard of such a thing.' "'Mr. Mueller,' I said, 'do you know how dense this fog is?' No,' he replied, 'my eye is not on the density of the fog, but on the living God, who controls every circumstance of my life.' "He went down on his knees, and he prayed one of the most simple prayers. I thought to myself, 'That would suit a children's class, where the children were not more than eight or nine years of age.' The burden of his prayer was something like this: 'O Lord, if it is consistent with Thy will, please remove this fog in five minutes. You know the engagement You made for me in Quebec for Saturday. I believe it is Your will.' "When he had finished, I was going to pray, but he put his hand on my shoulder and told me not to pray. First,' he said, 'you do not believe God will do it; and, second, I believe He has done it. And there is no need whatever for you to pray about it.' I looked at him, and George Mueller said this: 'Captain, I have known my Lord for fifty-seven years and there has never been a single day that I have failed to gain an audience with the King. Get up, Captain and open the door, and you will find the fog is gone.' I got up, and the fog was gone. On Saturday afternoon George Mueller was in Quebec."

I agree about the love and respect being the important parts. We can level with God- but always acknowledging Him as God Almighty. I think George Mueller was on to something with HOW he prayed as much as how often he prayed. An eyewitness described it as something a child might say.... and that eyewitness was the captain of the Sardian.

Mike: "When Jesus returns, he will be holding a copy of the Orange Book and be teaching you from it." A few pages later, someone asked if he was joking. "So, you were serious about Jesus returning with the Orange Book in his hand? Mike: "Quite serious. I've seen him this way many times myself." =============== I forget if Jesus was also studying from the Orange Book, as well.

vpw's phrasing on this was very suggestive in TW-LiL. I speculated that something happened between them. Later, DWBH confirmed it outright.

Charity, since you're new, I'll tell you this in advance. One of Mike's hallmarks is to go on for pages on subjects nobody wants, and lots of people refute or debate. When someone has a question about something SPECIFIC and CONCRETE, then Mike suddenly doesn't have time. In over 20 years, he's never even clarified his belief system as he sees it- because he'd get called on it. Instead, he changes positions in secret and claims people misrepresent him based on his previous posts, and uses terms that try to make it sound like he's not that different from everyone else. a la twi. I even opened a thread to discuss people changing their positions on things over the years. Mike refused to post on it. There's someone hiding something.

They always like massaging the numbers. Just before they gave up announcing corps grad sizes (has that resumed?), they announced one not by how many, but the PERCENTAGE that were going on to do specific things. 20% to one thing, 40% to another. There were FIVE GRADS. ONE grad did the first thing, TWO did another.....

"Kodachrome". (S & G)

The old joke was about a man who flipped through the Bible at random, put his finger down, and that verse was his guidance for the day. (Yes, technically, that's biblomancy.) One day he arrived at Matthew 27:5b "and he went and hanged himself." (vpw MISQUOTED the KJV there and quoted it "and Judas went and hanged himself", which is NOT in the KJV anywhere.) The guy didn't like that, so he tried again and got Luke 10:37b "Then Jesus said to him, go and do thou likewise." The guy tried a third time, and got John 13:27b "Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly." (vpw misquoted the KJV again, "That which thou doest, do quickly.")

Mark Wedloe Roo John Dexter Slinky Lloyd Davis Michael Thorpe Johnny Stransel Billy Taft Robby Fielding Jody Larson Tim Oliver Willie Sharpe Randy Grainger Ralakili Conrad Wilhelm Gordon Eldridge Sgt Rex Spanner Todd Carlson Johnny Bark Herbert Trimpy Constable Sanders Emmanuel Grayson Tom Miller Dick Mitchell Lionel Huffer Fulton Chaney Gene Jensen Henrik Ibsen Clyde Trotter Owen Tuttle Franciscus Abbot Artie Lynne Hector Miller Paul Lucas Sephus McCoy Grady Otto Nielsen Ray Blaisch

Right- vpw made fun of this sort of thinking when discussing salvation and repentance. Now someone's trying to tell us this was exactly how God Almighty was handling His Revelation in the 20th century.

BTW, here's one for free. If the appeal is "well, I feel good when I try to follow this", then I'd like to point out vpw's own words, that you can get a good feeling on a psychiatrist's couch, which he was dismissing at the time. As for "it's in a neat package", well, I don't know who guaranteed truth would be in a neat package. If anything, cons would be in a neater package because style counts with a counterfeit. However, there's lots of programs in lots of churches. They've been discussed over the years in the GSC by those who actually cared. So, if the idea is "it's a neat package so it must be true", then there's a bunch of other "true" programs out there to try, and some of them are offered 100% FREE with no obligations! Really, excuses, excuses. If one is going to be dogmatic about adhering to a delusion, one should at least be proud of their decision, not try to deceive themselves or anyone else.

"In vain is the net spread in sight of any bird." It's one of the reasons we keep telling our stories- so more people can evade the hook even with good bait. So, it harms the individual to go into twi, and it harms the individual to just buy into occulted doctrines supposedly based on twi or pfal. Most people don't need our help much to see that last part. For the few that fall for it, it's a ruined life no matter how they want to depict it.

Any sociologist can tell you that the sole benefit of organized crime to local communities is that they get rid of DISorganized crime. People who pay "protection money" to mobsters to stay safe- if they're effective mobsters- will find that street crime in their area will be hunted to extinction. That's bad for THEIR business, so they'll push out muggers, etc.

So, just from the social angle, it can cost one a spouse, friends, and/or family. Quite a risk for something that has already been disproven. But, horse, water.

So, are you suggesting that vpw ACTUALLY wanted you to check his work and leave if it didn't measure up, or was this just another ploy to make you think he was confident it would stand the test of time- in other words, a BLUFF? If it was NOT a bluff, why, then, was this buried in "ONE" teaching and not something he said all the time, increasing the chance people would check up behind him? It's like the ONE time I heard him joke that you can take money OUT of the ABS rather than put some in if you needed it. If he said it a lot, people would take him up on it. He made the comment a few times, separated by years and audiences. It was SHOWMANSHIP, not scholarship. Also, don't pretend the 1942 promise MIGHT be true by calling it "unproven." It has been DISproven. It's not "well, we can't know for sure" - we CAN know for sure, and it has been DISproven beyond any REASONABLE doubt. Nice try sneaking that one past, though. We DO agree that if pfal really is error and it's adhered to, the adherent is screwed. Furthermore, if one's doctrine that is BASED on a VARIATION of pfal is really error and is adhered to, the adherent is screwed.

How about "the Godfather"?

Clicked to the top again, because someone mentioned it again.

[There was no 1942 Promise. You're the only one here who doesn't seem to know that, It's been shown beyond any REASONABLE doubt. It just doesn't work once it's looked at. The only way one can believe it is to hide from all actual discussions about why it's false, dogmatically cling to an insistence it's true because I want it to be true, and pretend one can shoot holes in the rather airtight case that there was no actual 1942 promise.]

Knowing vpw, I'm sure he'd say he invented the thing. Naturally, someone else did, and vpw took whatever credit he could. Standard M.O. for vpw.