WordWolf

Batman Begins Gary Oldman The Fifth Element

Waysider was responding to the idea that we should disregard the evil that vpw did, since to view that was to view a "failure" and to view him by some nebulous "new man" showed some sort of "success." Waysider: "Focus on his mobster ways and ties to the underworld and Al Capone was a failure. Focus on the 2,200 people per day who were served by his soup kitchen and he was a success."

Boy, that sure IS the same....

You make it sound like their forming a group was accidental. They went into things with the internet domain names already reserved for when they officially formed the group of the same name.

Thanks- that's the point I was trying to make. I have no idea how I left so many people behind on that one.

"If my God was as small as your God, I'd get me a NEW God."- vpw

[I provided the link because Mike's post was hidden in a reply. So, people can link and read all of what I'm replying to...] Mike: "The thing that is genuine "anti" in my proposed new term (Trademark Pending) is the reversal of excessive-love to excessive-hate. My theory is that most of the people who are very anti-wierwille now WERE very pro-wierwille when first taking the class. Finding out that VPW was not the holy man they idolized at first caused them to "snap" against him with with the same zeal as when they positively idolized him. It was a rush to idolize him and join the Corps early, and then a rush to anti-idolize him. In both rushes, there wasn't time to really sort things out properly." WordWolf: Taking people who dedicated themselves to God, their lives to God, who truly thought that loyalty was to God alone, and siphoning off that love of God and commitment, telling them this person was helping them get all of that done, then them finding out that the supposed leader, who supposedly dedicated his life to God, instead dedicated his life to alcoholism, tobacco, rape, molestation, and creature comforts, and all his talk about dedication to God was all a SMOKESCREEN for that, all a trick to get them to hand over all their money so he could booze up, smoke up, and live it up, while taking dedicated women who dedicated their lives to God and molested them and raped them, that will get an emotional reaction no matter who is involved. People went from completely buying into layer upon layer of snow job, to suddenly learning in one moment how FALSE it was, how FRAUDULENT vpw was, how HYPOCRITICAL he was, how PREDATORY he was. That's bound to get an emotional reaction- unless, of course, one decided never to actually address ANY of it. If one decided to blow all of it off under "boys will be boys", then things that outrage Jesus can be swept under the rug, and one can go on to ridicule people who have a legitimate emotional response to destroyed lives, hurt lives, capital crimes, causing God's people to hurt and stumble and savaging them. The only reasons I have this theory are: (1) because in the 1970s I saw with my own eyes many grads go faster and farther than me in “going ga-ga” over VPW, going WOW, and going into the Corps. I thought they went without thinking it all through carefully, setting aside the emotions of love and excitement. I was slow with this; they were fast. (2) because from 1986 till now, I saw with my own eyes many grads go faster and farther than me in being enraged over VPW’s revealed sins, going ape over throwing away all he ever said did regardless of its truth value. I think few think it all through carefully, setting aside the emotions of anger and unnecessary emotion. I go slow with this. WordWolf: People encountered happy, genuine Christians. They were told the reason they were so happy was this group teaching the Bible. They visit the group and are told much the same. They join the happy, genuine Christians, enjoying fellowship with them (by the normal usage of the word.) They are told, repeatedly, that the key to being so happy is this class this guy teaches, and how everybody there all agrees. Eventually, they buy into it, and take the class taught by the man who called himself "THE TEACHER" and built up his image so everybody sold him like that. All through the class, there's grads who keep up the love and fellowship. Afterwards, they're treated as somewhat higher, having that in common with the happy, genuine Christians. They're talked into taking more classes. They're leaned on- carefully- to donate their time and money- first 10%, then more, then all of their discretionary income- because of how holy the organization is, how important to God its leader is, how hard he works for both God and his people. Convinced (eventually) that to grow most with God will be to go WOW, some go. When they return, they're treated like heroes. Then they're convinced that to REALLY grow with God will be to go Corps. Dedicated to God, these poor, naive kids go Corps and try their best, absorbing the lessons taught there- many of which were unhealthy and exploited their loyalty, all by the so-called godly leader. They put in thousands upon thousands of hours of their lives, and much of their income, even choosing lesser jobs so they can attend events once a year, all because they're trying to do their best for God, and told this is how they do it. Then, they discover it was all built on lies. The only legit Christianity there was the LOCAL form they FIRST experienced. All the legit Christians had been shilling for a fraud, a conman, who sold lots of classes, lots of books, lots of events, always making a profit at every level, a man whose teachings were all cobbled together from the work of other, legit Christians. This man then took that money, and spent lots on creature comforts, chain-smoked, drank all day because he was addicted to alcohol AND tobacco, and in between all that set up an ELABORATE system to rape and molest some of God's women, covering his tracks at every level. The most dedicated of God's people respond to that by being enraged. Then Mike comes along and dares to say there's something wrong with that-that their anger and emotion are "unnecessary", that they should ignore all of that and stay loyal to the alcoholic rapist because he taught some good Bible. Mike doesn't seem to get a lot of converts to his thinking- for which he blames the people he tries to recruit. "The good that came from PFAL and TWI-1 was far greater than the bad, and GreaseSpotters who can’t integrate this in their world-view will continue to have a terrible reputation with grads out there." WordWolf: This isn't about popularity, it's about TRUTH. When people come here- and lots of them come here- they come here to read the truth. The truth is that the good that came in early twi came from the Jesus People that were recruited. What vpw contributed mostly is the "bad" we object to- and most people have no trouble understanding that once they learn what was hidden from them BY vpw. People like Mike who can't integrate this in his world-view will spend the rest of their lives spinning their wheels and being allowed to show up places, but never quite getting the RESPECT he thinks he has earned. I have people who disagree with me fundamentally on all sorts of stuff, but most of them respect me nonetheless, because I have earned their respect through integrity if nothing else. I've interacted with grads out there. They have no problem finding out what I believe. I have a GOOD reputation among them, and when I speak on God's Word, they take it seriously (I have proof.) it's possible that the good in twi- which came from the Jesus People- was far greater than the bad- the rapes, molestations, vices, greed, vanity and so on that came from vpw- but even if it was, I'd be slow to say so, especially to those who were victimized by vpw and his system. Is human life subject to CALCULATIONS, how much HARM is worth how much BLESSING? The Blessing of The Lord benefits with NO SORROW added with it. That's not a description of twi in ANY era. Have you ever researched around with old grads to find out what they think of GreaseSpot? [I know that they all come here when they want the truth on what twi is doing lately or has done since they checked in last- including people who are embarrassed to SAY they check in here. I know twi's innies come here to find out the truth on twi. I know twi's hierarchy knows all that- they insisted we post a letter of theirs to their own followers in order to do damage control on what information leaked out via the GSC. And there's thousands who posted here and have moved on with their lives- GSC success stories. I'm sure there's a few grads to whom this does not apply- there's always a minority- but I'm not going to throw away integrity and truth just to try to cozy up to people who value both so little that they spurn the GSC. I'm not here to make friends- although I've made some anyway- people who DO value truth and integrity. I do have a reputation, and it's not for being snuggly-wuggly, it's for telling the unadulterated truth. I didn't get that overnight nor by accident. It was the by-product of many decisions to value truth and integrity. People who don't make those decisions may get baffled as to how anyone can disagree with me or even dislike me, but still respect me. Well. the answer is there for those who want to know.]

One of the themes in this 2nd movie was one of contrasts. We saw the protagonist contrasted clearly with one villain, we saw him contrasted more faintly with the other, we saw him contrasted with his father, we saw him contrasted with his best friend. We also saw the 2 female characters contrasted with each other, and his best friend contrasted with one villain. We saw vices contrasted with each other, fast living was dangerous living. Finally, we saw the forces representing the establishment- or, more to the point, one representative of each- contrasted with each other.

That's because you can see how history progresses. To someone looking to exonerate those who set the stage, history is something that happened all at once, with nothing leading to it.

"TWI circa 1971-1982 was vastly different, and free of the Corps elitism that took over when Craig took over in 1982. Oddly, there is much testimony here from Ralph D about this good phase of unsupervised witnessing of Jesus AND the class that happened on Long Island. " You can't get the differences because you refuse to look at them. twi circa 1971 was vpw reeling in all the House of Acts Jesus People, and sending them out on the road. People saw legit Christians- the Jesus People- and were told (by naive Jesus People who didn't MEAN to lie but were genuinely mistaken) that there was a connection between what people saw and twi, vpw, pfal. There was not. The twi growth all stems from THOSE people. What was vpw's "contribution" to this? Mostly the labels of twi, pfal, himself, and the Corps elitism he slowly dropped on them. The Corps elitism didn't suddenly arrive in 1982. vpw set it up, inflicted it on lcm, and inflicted it on Jesus People and on people they recruited. twi circa 1982 was the result of twi 1971-1981, and THAT was the result of what vpw had made it. Anyone who can't see that isn't looking. History doesn't drop out of the sky, it happens every day.

" I think this is a side-effect of all the building and maintaining an anti-idol, that eclipses objective and accurately detailed essays on the history of TWI. Few here even try to emulate the objective standards that still exist in professional journalism. I often try to UN-BLUR the differences." Mike, I think you're the only one you're successfully conning that you have anything in common with professional journalists. Your standards are anything BUT objective, and you're rather PROUD you have one standard for vpw and one standard for everyone else. That's NOT objective. Also, making up terms just to hang them on people who disagree with you isn't journalism.

It's like a fish extolling the virtues of the line because of how delicious the BAIT was. False dilemna. Nobody expected that. Nobody expects it now. Nobody complains vpw wasn't perfect. We complain he was a plagiarizing rapist whose "ministry" was built on genuine Christians upon whose work a fraud propped himself. HE was a fake, and that's not what we wanted, nor what we were told at the time. For those of us able to distinguish the bait from the hook, the appeal of "come back to pfal" just isn't going to snag us. If there were any "great truths", it wasn't because vpw was legit, it was because vpw needed the legit to bait the hook. My God is not that small that I have to fall for that con to receive truths or blessings. In an absolute sense, sin is sin. From the view on the ground, it's very insulting to compare the types of sin you might encounter here- flashes of anger, moments of bad judgement, seeking God through false idols presented as preachers- and serial rapists using God's Word as their cover, and God's People as their merchandise. If I ever sin at the level the plagiarizing rapist did, may the villagers hang me or burn me at the stake before I make as many victims as he did.

Next movie. Cesar Romero Norman Fell Red Skelton

I don't think the clues are pointing this way, but I have to ask- "CARRIE?"

From the fifth and final link on the first post.... https://truthwatchers.com/the-word-of-faith-heresy/ The Word of Faith Heresy After studying the Word-Faith movement, Hank Hanegraaff, determined the Faith movement was considerably a cult, saying, “Given these definition of a cult, it is completely justified to characterize particular groups within the Faith movement as cults – either theologically or sociologically or, in some cases, both….Copeland Ministries, headed by Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, for example bears all the marks of a cult.”1) But because of the diversity of teachers and teachings within the Faith movement, Hanegraaff concludes, “Thus, while certain groups within the Faith movement can be properly classified as cults, the word cultic more aptly describes the movement as a whole.”2) There have been various opinions about the Word-Faith movement over the years. Judith Matta considers “the Word-Faith teaching is perhaps the most subtle, heretical system to emerge in our own times.”3) Rod Rosenbladt, wrote, “Virtually all of the leading American TV ministers have drunk at the trough of the esoteric, Swedenborgian, theosophical speculations of the late E. W. Kenyon.”4) Many other who have researched this movement would agree with Rosenbladt considering Word-Faith occultism. For example, Hanegraaff’s predecessor Walter Martin added quotations from a leading proponent of Word-Faith doctrines, Kenneth Copeland, in his last published book before his death entitled The New Age Cult.5) Evidently, Dr. Walter Martin considered Copeland and the Faith movement part of the New Age movement. Albert Dagger compares Copeland’s doctrines with “theosophists,”6) and equates positive confession as “a tenet of witchcraft.”7) After quoting Yonggi Cho, another Word-Faith teacher, Mark Haville asks, “Is this a model for prayer or casting a spell?”8) John MacArthur wrote, “Word Faith theology has turned Christianity into a system no different from the lowest human religions – a form of voodoo where God can be coerced, cajoled, manipulated, controlled, and exploited for the Christian’s own end.”9) Robert Bowman proposed, “Of all the critics of the Word-Faith teaching who regard it as heretical, John MacArthur seemed to labor the hardest at striking a balance… issuing his judgment…”10) In McArthur’s more recent book Strange Fire, he wrote of the Word-Faith movement: “They are promoting crass superstition blended with false doctrines purloined from assorted Gnostic and metaphysical cults, cloaked in Christian terms and symbols.”11) The core teaching of Faith theology is properly identified in the following assessment. “Faith as an external force and human ability to manipulate the supernatural by words are beliefs common in pagan magic, but are entirely foreign to biblical faith.”12) Johanna Michaelsen, a former occultist, explains the history behind this thought. “In ancient Egypt, the followers of the Egyptian god Thot (the master of all knowledge and originator of alchemy) believed that thoughts were real things, with vibrational and energy levels of their own which could be manipulated to produce physical effects. In other words, what you think is what you get.”13) She further asserts, “Put aside all critical faculties, enter an altered state of consciousness, have faith in your faith, and allow the Force to work through you. Nothing shall be withheld from you if only you believe! Herein lies the basis of all occult power. This is how channelers become channelers, how occultists develop occult powers, and how millions of our school children become open to demonic beings.”14) John Ankerberg and John Weldon, acknowledged in Facts On False Teaching In The Church: Some of those stressing the power of the mind, “faith” or Positive Thinking include: Robert Schuller – “Possibility Thinking”; Clement Stone – “Positive Mental Attitude”; Norman Vincent Peale, the modern “founder” of positive thinking; Oral Roberts’ “Seed-Faith” principles; the teachings of Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland, also known as “Word-Faith” teaching; Paul Yonggi Cho, who stresses a health and prosperity gospel; and Charles Capps and many others who stress “Positive Confession.” The terms Positive Confession, Prosperity Thinking, Theology of Success Movement, or “name it and claim it” are all terms used to describe those stressing the power of faith as a force to influence the environment of God.15) Word-Faith preacher Pat Robertson admits his principles are the same used by occultists such as Napoleon Hill. “I began to realize… the Bible is not an impractical book of theology, but rather a practical book of life containing a system of thought and conduct that will guarantee success [with] principles so universal they might better be considered as laws…such people as Napoleon Hill, who wrote Think and Grow Rich, have gleaned only a few of the truths of the kingdom of God…. Some of the metaphysical principles of the kingdom, taken by themselves, can produce fantastic temporal benefits.”16) Commenting on this statement from Pat Robertson, Dave Hunt distinguishes that, Napoleon Hill was an occultist who learned his “metaphysical principle” from demons who came to him from the spirit world posing as masters of a “temple of wisdom.” Peale, Schuller, Robertson, Hagin, Copeland, and others, have brought into the church ancient occultism as part of the “signs and wonders” and “prosperity” movement foretold for the last days.17) Constance Cumbey criticizes Pat Robertson‘s book, observing: There are disturbingly strong parallels in them with Rosicrucianism, Theosophy, including the Alice Bailey teachings, and even Russian occultist George Gurdjieff. Robertson’s Law of Reciprocity sounds amazingly like Gurdjieff’s “Law of Reciprocal Maintenance.”18) Further alerting the influence of Robertson‘s television show, Cumbey mentioned, “While he has denied Biblical inerrancy, he has at the same time given important New Agers such as Jeremy Rifkin and Alvin Toffler access to his 30 million plus Christian viewing audience. He has done likewise for promoters of questionable, even blatantly New Age oriented – theologies, including Richard Foster, Bruce Larson, Robert Schuller, and Dennis Waitley.”19) And, “Rifkin has boasted to interviewers that Robertson’s program has been one of his chief entry points to the Evangelicals.”20) Leaders of the Word-Faith movement have admitted the similarities of their teachings with metaphysics, but try to deny it. E. W. Kenyon, the forefather of Faith theology wrote, “We are not dealing with mysticism, philosophy or metaphysics. We are dealing with realities. …we are dealing with the basic laws of man’s being, the great spiritual laws that govern the unseen forces of life.”21) Assessing this statement, D. R. McConnell explains: Kenyon claims that his teaching is not metaphysical and then immediately follows his disclaimer with a central dogma of metaphysics. For example, when he speaks of “the great spiritual laws that govern the unseen forces of life,” he is espousing deism, the metaphysical world view that the universe is governed by impersonal, spiritual laws rather [sic] that a personal, sovereign God.22) Kenyon again applies this method of disclaiming his metaphysic doctrine prior to teaching it. “This is not a new metaphysics of philosophy. This is reality. This is God breaking into the sense realm.”23) And again, McConnell points out the obvious. When Kenyon refers to “God breaking into the sense realm,” he is espousing dualism, which is the metaphysical view of reality that the spiritual realm and the physical realm are mutually exclusive and even opposed to one another.24) Kenyon‘s frequent disclaimers, such as: “This is not psychological or metaphysics,”25) have been repeated by Kenneth Hagin who wrote: “When I preach on the mind, it frightens some congregations. They immediately think of Christian Science.”26) Vinson Synan reported: Hagin insists “Kenyon’s influence on my ministry has been minute. Only his teachings on the name of Jesus have much to do with my theology. I absolutely deny any metaphysical influence from Kenyon. I teach not Christian Science, but Christian sense.”27) Here we find an interesting admission from Hagin; he considers Kenyon’s teachings in line with Christian Science and metaphysics, yet, D. R. McConnell documented extensive plagiarism of E. W. Kenyon by Kenneth Hagin.28) While Hagin has always attempted to separate himself from anything to do with metaphysics, he has now placed himself in that very camp as he has endorsed Kenyon’s writings, even calling it revelation from God. “I began to look around to see what I could find written on the subject. For others, you see, have revelations from God. I was amazed how little material there is in print on this subject. The only good book devoted entirely to it that I have found is E. W. Kenyon’s The Wonderful Name of Jesus. I encourage you to get a copy. It is a marvelous book. It is revelation knowledge. It is the Word of God.”29) When accused of plagiarizing Kenyon, Vinson Synan related Hagin response: “the Holy Spirit gave him the same words as Kenyon without his having prior knowledge of the sources.”30) If we allow Hagin the benefit of the doubt, consider how the Mormons and Irvingites had no contact but they received revelations with correlating doctrines. Hank Hanegraaff also documents a number of Kenneth Copeland’s teachings with “striking similarities” of Mormon theology.31) P. Atkinson’s doctorate thesis on the “Jesus died spiritually” doctrine of the Word Faith movement stated, “Copeland can now be regarded as the unofficial leader of the wole Word-faith movement.”32) …………..

Nice suit.

How about "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind????"

That was Rush's "the Spirit of Radio." FREE POST!

No dang? I'd vaguely heard of the third movie as a story where they play ghosts, but that was a long time ago.

"Abbott and Costello???????????"

Was this the remake of "Total Recall"? They sound like things that MIGHT have been said in TR but weren't. at least not in the version with AS.

Jack Palance Batman Jack Nicholson

I'll give it a few more hours.

It's hardly impossible to show how fake Pikes Peak/Burton was.

So, ONE poster from dozens agrees with Mike on one thing, and it's a great victory. Furthermore, the ONE person MUST be correct, and the DOZENS of people MUST be wrong- because otherwise, Mike is wrong as usual.