WordWolf

This isn't difficult to understand.

False dilemma. Somewhere between "lives a clean life totally above reproach" and "he's a cannibal who rapes children" is where we expect most people, including most leaders. It's one thing to say he sins and is "weak", it's another to say he's leveling with people about raping and drugging his congregation, embezzling their money, deceiving them on his sources, committing simony..... It's ridiculous to reduce things to this foolish level, but everyone ELSE can see it easily, and it hardly qualifies as news. This is what happens when one tries to defend vpw and his rapes and druggings, etc.

"All You Need is Love."

Research Geek didn't address the Pike's Peak Seminary "doctorate." The place was unaccredited. That means they have as much authority to issue a "doctorate" as Schlotski's Deli. Princeton Theological Seminary is a real seminary that has no connection to Princeton UNIVERSITY other than both being in Princeton NJ. However, conflating the 2 when discussing vpw is almost de rigeur for some people- lcm did it long before you. AFAIK, vpw had a real Masters, but after that, went to a degree mill for his "doctorate."

Yes, that was Pete Best. I used to hear he was the drummer for the Quarrymen, the pre-Beatles band. However, he really did start for the Beatles, the Silver Beetles, and their other names before that. It sounds like local drummers had a lyrical feel for the music, but didn't keep technical time well, so professionals all thought they were awful. Ringo, on the other hand, had both skills.

Listen to the beginning of this song, then listen to the beginning of "La Marseillaise." The opening notes are the same. IIRC, they share the same 16 notes at the beginning, and diverge at the 17th note.

John Laroquette Stripes John Candy

When George posts lots of famous people, and NOTHING springs to mind, the answer is often "AMAZON WOMEN ON THE MOON." (Is it now? And George, it's your turn on several threads.)

"La Marseillaise"!

Mark Wedloe Roo John Dexter Slinky Lloyd Davis Michael Thorpe Johnny Stransel Billy Taft Robby Fielding Jody Larson Tim Oliver Willie Sharpe Randy Grainger Ralakili Conrad Wilhelm Gordon Eldridge Sgt Rex Spanner

"Good teacher, he really seems to care....about WHAT, I have no idea." "What's your favorite subject?" "Poetry." "Really? Well, maybe you can help me straighten out my Longfellow." "Actually, I'd like to join you, but I have class tonight." "Oh. How 'bout tomorrow night?" "I have class then, too." "I'll tell you what, then. Why don't you call me some time when you have no class?" "Alright. Maybe I will."

To be specific, his name is not "DAVE" anything.

Mike, for someone who tries so hard to convince us he understands pfal better than everyone else, for someone who claims that none of us understood pfal like we were supposed to...... surely you could avoid such an elementary mistake as to get "to whom" wrong. As you quoted, this was specifically for country coordinators, you said so TWICE. So it is addressed to whom? To the country coordinators. What about the "every born-again believer"? Well, any pfal grad should be able to explain that part, also. According to vpw himself, if there's a letter addressed specifically to me, there might be something you can learn from it as well, even though it wasn't addressed to you. According to vpw, that's how he explained "for our learning." [BTW, he was wrong, once again, on something there, but for someone who insists pfal is inerrant, that's not the point.] This was a closed meeting for the country coordinators, as I'm sure everyone else can see.

You believe incorrectly.

The thing Mike just can't get is that nobody CARES what vpw's final words were to insiders and the rank-and-file were. As for the commercial, it doesn't matter who it was aimed at, it was still a commercial. BTW, Mike's awfully ungrateful. If this really is THAT important, Mike should be THANKFUL I pulled it up and posted it. Why does Mike like to keep these things mentioned but never actually posted? Is it because the reality is inferior to the imagined value, and that's hidden as long as the original is hidden?

WordWolf: "Sometimes, Mike (and only Mike) insists this particular teaching has some amazing significance, because he says it's the last public teaching vpw did before he died, and, as such, is singularly important. ... Mike insists this was vpw's last public teaching (there's reason to dispute that), and that it's important (and most of us don't take that seriously at all.)" Mike: "WordWolf, you hinted a few times that you have information that this was NOT his last teaching ????" You quoted me above, and STILL managed to get it wrong. You removed a word. When you remove a word from the word of WordWolf, you no longer have the word of WordWolf. Last PUBLIC teaching. Others pointed out that the last PUBLIC teaching he did was on "The Hope." ======================================= Mike: "The significance of this being last is simple: it has VPW's most important message to us. Twice he taught us that he would want his last words to us to be his most important. Those notices are in the Green Book and in Living Victoriously. I have posted both texts here several times. */*/*/*/*/*/* ANOTHER point you missed, WW, is that this is addressed to TOP leadership." ========================================== Mike, you just proved their point. This was NOT addressed to the public, by your admission. It was "addressed to TOP leadership." How you can say that and contradict it in the preceding paragraph is really more of a Mike thing.

In case that's not official, "The Sound of Silence", by Art Garfunkel and Paul Simon. Next song. "Nobody knows what it's like to be the bad man"

I was posting the sound of silence.

He did, so we're looking for who Ringo REPLACED.

"Good teacher, he really seems to care....about WHAT, I have no idea."

Samuel L. Jackson Black Snake Moan Christina Ricci

BTW, anyone who wants a quick summary of the main points of that entire transcript, it's simple. I said it before: "Serving people is important for Christians. Therefore, master all three levels of PFAL and serve them that. There are no answers outside the Way Ministry." (The end,) My initial response to it was that this was the closing remarks of a man with an overinflated sense of his organization, and an underinflated sense of all Christians outside that organization. "The Joy of Serving" was a commercial for pfal. "You have to serve people something-so serve them the 3 levels of the class, and outside of twi, there's no real answers for people. (The End.)" Since it was hard to find, I thought I'd repost it. Mike insists this was vpw's last public teaching (there's reason to dispute that), and that it's important (and most of us don't take that seriously at all.) It was called "The Joy of Serving."

Sometimes, Mike (and only Mike) insists this particular teaching has some amazing significance, because he says it's the last public teaching vpw did before he died, and, as such, is singularly important. I say that it's a teaching-long advertisement for pfal, and is interesting to show that vpw's frame of mind at his alleged last public teaching was the same as for the decade before- get out there and sell my class! ============================================================= Since it was hard to find, I thought I'd repost it. Mike insists this was vpw's last public teaching (there's reason to dispute that), and that it's important (and most of us don't take that seriously at all.) It was called "The Joy of Serving." Here's the transcript of "The Joy of Serving", aka "The Joy of Serving Transcript." (Yes, it took me a while to find it, so I'm reposting it off of "OK, Once and For All", page 7, from dmiller.) ====================================================================== The Joy of Serving Transcript ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Joy of Serving" Dr. V.P. Wierwille May 12, 1985 [song ends "I Am Resolved"]". . . will come to thee." Thank-ya very much. Please be seated. Well it's wonderful seeing you all again on a Sunday night. Really I appreciate your coming in from all over the area -- and I'm sure that Reverend Chris Geer and everybody else does. Most of you know, at least the Corps knows, that Chris and Barbara were my aids for about five years. So, through the years we have been very closely knit together. And, real thankful for their ministry and their dedication. Phil it's [Phylis?] good to see you. (laughter) You got married on me. 's nice. (laughter) Got anything to show for it? (heavy laughter) [pause] Mrs. Wierwille and I will be returning to the s-- United States tomorrow. And so I just wanna, again, thank Chris and Barbara and all the -- st- Corps here and staff and everybody, for -- the exquisite way they took care of us. And how blessed I been just ta be in their presence. [Article from The Way Magazine begins near here.] Since this is the meeting here at this time of country coordinators -- and of course, what I'm going to say should be applicable to every born again believer, but especially to -- our coordinators. I wanted to just share a little bit tonight on the joy of serving. The joy of serving. Number one, you can't serve unless you've got something to serve. So if you are going to serve a dinner, you have to have a dinner to serve, right? Good. If you master the foundational class on Power for Abundant Living, and the intermediate class plus the collateral readings that accompany them, you have really something wonderful to serve people -- with. That twig and twig area leader, and the country coordinators, leadership of the Corps, of the WOWs, have to all have this joy of serving. If you haven't got the joy of serving you missed something in the Word of God you oughta ah-put on. Heh, heh. So, number one, you gotta have something to serve. Number two is love. In Ephesians, chapter five -- verse one: Be ye therefore followers [imitators] of God, as [beloved, or] dear children; Number two: And walk in love, as Christ also [loved you, is the text], and [gave up] himself for [you] an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour. I'll bet most of ya thought I was going ta read ya first Corinthians thirteen. (laughter) Wouldn't hurt ya to read it sometime again -- and believe what it says. Ha-ha-ha. Then I want you to look at first John, the epistle of first John. Chapter three -- verse sixteen: Hereby perceive we the love of God [and this word "love" is always agapao, or agape], because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. Verse seventeen: But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? Go back to Peter. Flip back a book, first Peter. Chapter two - no, chapter one. Verse twenty two. Seeing ye have purified your souls . . . That's renewed mind, 'cause your soul is not purified when you're born again. It becomes purified as you renew your mind -- according to the Word. purified your souls in obeying the truth [there it is,] through the Spirit unto unfeigned ["unfeigned" is genuine] love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently: So first, in the joy of serving, you've gotta have something that's joyfully to be served, heh heh, secondly love, and then thirdly service. That's the joy and the order of it. I'll give you the four basic scriptural things relative to service as I know it from the greatness of the Word. Not gonna read these, just going give 'em to ya. I'm gonna read one of 'em with ya. Luke twenty, twenty-two and following; Luke twenty-three, sixteen and following; John thirteen, one and following. [ Luke 20:22ff, Luke 23:16ff, John 13:1ff ] But the one I want to read with you is from the Gospel of Mark. Mark, chapter ten. Verse thirty-five: And James and John [two of the apostles], Sons of Zebedee, [came] unto him [unto Jesus], saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire. (heh, heh, heh) Sounds sort of selfish, doesn't it? (heh, heh) And [Jesus] said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you? They said unto him, Grant us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory. [And] Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can you drink of the cup that I drink of ? baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? It's referring to his death. Thirty-nine: And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized with shall ye be baptized: But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared. Verse forty-one: And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John. [And] Jesus called them to him [all twelve], and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. See the world is just opposite of the teaching of the Scriptures. They exercise lordship over them; and then the great -eh - when he gets higher up on the ladder, then he exercises authority over the top of them too. That's why, so many times, we have heard that money is power. Because money buys people, and then people become the slaves of those who have the money. That's the world. Verse forty-three: But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, [shall be minister -- be your minister -- means minister to you]. See, every twig coordinator ought to know what's happening in his twig, among his people. He ought to know his people very well so he can minister to them. You can't help somebody if you don't know there's a need there. So a twig coordinator really has to get close to his people -- to know. And people are usually hesitant to really tell ya what they need until -- you have earned their respect. And you earn people's respect by serving them the Word of God and loving them -- and then learning to keep your mouth shut. You just -- you just never tell anything; you just help people. Forgot which verse I was -- forty-three: But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: Verse forty-four: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest [the greatest, the toppest], shall be [doulos of all] servant of all. Not just minister but a servant of all, a doulos, -- marked out for just serving people. For even [verse forty-five] the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many And after all of my years, and our years of working with people, I think the joy of service is exactly, in a synopsis form, what I've given you tonight. Number one, you have to take PFAL and master it -- Intermediate, you gotta master it; the collateral's that go with it, you gotta master. Then you've got something to serve people. And then you have to do it with the love of God in the renewed mind, -- agapao. Then your service is just not a ministering service, it is a doulos service, where you are a marked-out slave for serving. And I think this is what has made The Way Ministry so wonderful all over the world, generally speaking, is that we have a lot of the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation among our people and that we are serving our people. So every Twig coordinator, Twig Area, Country, anybody that blesses people, like anybody, even if you are not a Twig coordinator, you ought to master this so you can help somebody in the shop or factory; or wherever you are, so that you got answers for them. Outside of this ministry, people, I've seen very few answers. If we knew where there were more, we'd go get 'em! (laughter) That's right. Heh, heh. I think later on tonight you're gonna hear this old church hymn: O Master, let me walk with Thee In lowly paths of service free; Teach me the wayward feet to stay, And guide them in the homeward way. Teach me Thy patience! still with Thee In closer, dearer company, In work that keeps faith sweet and strong, In trust that triumphs over wrong; In hope that sends a shining ray, Far down the future's broad'ning way, In peace that only Thou canst give, With Thee, O Master, let me live. [The Way Magazine Article ends here.] That was my confirmation verse. Heh, heh -- hymn rather, not verse, hymn. Revelation three-twenty was the verse. Well, way back in March 17th this year we officially opened and dedicated the Word Over The World Auditorium at International Headquarters, that I'm sure a lot of your love and blessing's involved in. And since the opening, we have been making available the Sunday Night teaching fellowships -- Teaching Service, on video tape, as well as audio. But because of the differences in formats used in the United States and used here, most of you have not yet had the opportunity to see a video version of the Sunday Night Services. So Reverend Geer and I discussed this yesterday and felt that you'd be blessed tonight to see the Word Over The World Auditorium and a Sunday Night Service. So, Reverend Geer, you do what you have to do. [Tape ends here]

It's also interesting to see what happened and what did NOT happen. We all know that vpw never went to his congregation and confessed his sins against them. That would have been required after having violated their trust for so many years on so many occasions. Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that vpw SECRETLY repented- that he said NOTHING to the congregation whom he'd owed many explanations and apologies, to say the least, but that he SECRETLY tried to get right with God Almighty. If he'd done that SECRETLY, he would have changed his heart- and that means he would have changed his ACTIONS. If the heart changes, the actions proceeding from the heart change. If he'd repented SECRETLY, there would have been comments in public teachings about seeking forgiveness from God, on repenting of sins, on stopping wrong actions and replacing them with right actions, and there would have been lots of discussions with him on-grounds here and there about that sort of thing, about how God forgives us and how we should ALL seek God's forgiveness about sins we've committed, about how we should ALL repent and go to God SECRETLY. All of that would have been happening ALL THE TIME. There would be comments in ALL the sermons, and slipping out in most or all of the conversations. If he'd actually repented in his heart, that's what the changes would have been that would have happened in his actions. There was no public repenting, no public discussion of repentance- as if it was a subject much on his mind- no derailing of casual discussions. The notion of repentance hadn't occurred to him until the very end, the final hours - when he actually started obsessing about it. Otherwise, there would have been hundreds of people who heard him say this sort of thing, and there were zero. So, he did not repent in his heart and change his heart- since that would have meant his actions would have changed, and we could have observed THAT very easily. According to Mike, what was vpw talking about in his final months and weeks? Supposedly, his last public teaching was "the Joy of Serving"- which was a teaching-long advertisement for pfal. It said that the finest thing to do was to serve, and the finest service was to serve people pfal, so go do it, and how, outside twi, there were almost no answers for people. Running commercials for product is NOT the same as repenting. https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25213-power-for-abundant-living-today™/page/12/#comment-614631