SafariVista

whew.... that was some difficult reading um... don't scare the baby j/k argue away ;)

Yeah... what happened?... :( Well, the answer to that has been plastered all over the place here. Too bad too, sounds like a whole group of you were having a wonderful time... having fun, talking about God... how sweet is that :)

If the ‘repeat of history‘ is inevitable, this seemingly un-natural UNION, clearly pooh-poohed upon by TRADITIONAL groups, will at some point be accepted as a CHOICE. As the Amish continue to forsake electricity and other conveniences of MAN, there are now MANY Amish that have PAY PHONES by their BARNS... Who’d a thunk…

Maybe the 'plane flying into the Pentagon', Waco, Okalahoma City bombing and the Holocaust all have something in common ... (and many others I'm sure) :blink:

My thought is, critical thinking is necessary for safety and quality of life. It is necessary for quality friendships to begin, grow and survive, and for an individual's peace of mind to be accquired and maintained. The KEY working component of this process for me, at this time is being QUIET. Questioning and Learning about myself, and how it became the norm for me to blindly accept what TWI dished out. NOT allowing the knee-jerk responses to FLY. Observation in the beginning was painful, realizing HOW my robotic thought patterns were CUTTING out some of the most wonderful things in LIFE!

Seems silly to argue about 'what that letter says' since we have SEEN what the men actually did. Both Weirwille & O'l Loy taught that someone could become 'SPIRITUAL' enough to 'HANDLE' things that were immoral and illegal. They EXPECTED their committed CORPS to STAND with them. Both these men were experts at twisting WORDS... and it's being exposed! There are probably PLENTY of letters out there that make these two look good to the unknowing... but we've seen the FACTS & REALITY OF IT ALL. :( Evidently what they wrote and what it meant were two different things~

Dang outofdafog! What non-sense! Telling our children who they can and can't date? (I do remember that thinking... oh, that's right, I married a 'believer'... someone said it can ALWAYS work between two BELIEVERS) Now, talking, teaching, and most importantly, being a good example... it seems 'the wrong' person wouldn't be very appealing to young people. Controlling our children as TWI directs, breeds immature young people who may gladly rush off in the wrong direction. They will lack confidence in decision making, and fall prey to someone who's willing to tell them what to do! Maybe that's why parents in TWI are told NOT to allow their college kids to MOVE too FAR AWAY... so parents can keep dictating! OMG! I just remembered Donna teaching that as kids get older THEY NEED MORE SUPERVISION! It's all coming back to me :( A young person is looking forward to their FREEDOM! Freedom from parents and being told what to do... freedom to make their own choices... My daughter has a boyfriend. Several other boys have had their 'eye' on her, and many have asked her out. She's sticking with this one guy. The 'friends' were getting together for a bon-fire, and one of the girls invited a boy that had been 'turned down' recently. I said, 'that doesn't sound like a very good idea' Well... she came home with a big story. When the 'turned down' guy showed up... it was a stare down between him & the 'boyfriend', for at least 3 HOURS! She said she's never been so uncomfortable in her life... That learning couldn't have come JUST from my words OR any Bible verse! Mature adults realize there is only so much they can do for their children. The more experiences they have, the more they'll learn, and the stronger they'll be. Always be ready to help and comfort... Unfortunately, what we've seen in TWI, the kids that stray, get CUT OFF until they decide to COME BACK TO THE HOUSEHOLD (again… my way or the Highway… immaturity, pettiness, irresponsibility?)

Hey sogwap51 I didn't get what you're saying here...? and I wanted to understand...

I am guilty of asking the Modishwasher to remove something I said about John L. It offended someone, they PM'd me, were very upset.... :( which upset me... yup, I'm a wuss~ Now, it's not that my opinion has changed at all, I saw what I saw, heard what I heard... and maybe it will be told in a more fitting place another time. The fact is, THERE WERE MANY ROBOTS functioning within the walls of TWI. Maybe these people visit the Cafe now, I don't know. But, the robotic/idiotic things I've done with the teachings I believed from TWI have caused pain to some people. So, if it were exposed here, it would seem fitting to at least acknowledge my idiotic-ness... since I don't ever recall DOING anything to purposely hurt anyone~ Shellon explains nicely the workings of the Cafe... she has a keen sense of what to do or what to avoid... and has helped me realize we're here to expose crap, not please everyone.

Interesting Justloafing... the example for a Christian was suppose to be Jesus Christ. And the 'example' TWI used over & over to justify the rantings, was Jesus in the Temple, overturning the moneychangers' tables. (as in, if something is wrong, get in there, be bold and take care of it) Were these 'moneychangers' his close disciples, or part of any household fellowship?... Also the example of Jesus 'forsaking' his family... Mar 3:35 "For whosoever, shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother." Does it say to turn you back on your natural family if they don't agree with your doctrine? Perhaps he was letting people know a BIGGER PICTURE… beginning to show the massiveness of the One Body~ It's immature to insist on ONLY MY WAY or NOTHING... and the more I stand back and look at the whole picture of TWI, the more comical it seems... Adults having a tantrum (well, it's very sad too)

These great questions and answers are from the days when game show responses were spontaneous and clever, not scripted and (often) dull as they are now. Of course, Peter Marshall was the host asking the questions. Q. Which of your five senses tends to diminish as you get older? A. Charley Weaver: My sense of decency. Q. In Hawaiian, does it take more than three words to say "I Love You"? A. Vincent Price: No, you can say it with a pineapple and a twenty. Q. What are "Do It," "I Can Help," and "I Can't Get Enough"? A. George Gobel: I don't know, but it's coming from the next apartment. Q. As you grow older, do you tend to gesture more or less with your hands while talking? A. Rose Marie: You ask me one more growing old question Peter, and I'll give you a gesture you'll never forget. Q. Paul, why do Hell's Angels wear leather? A. Paul Lynde: Because chiffon wrinkles too easily. Author Unknown

Oh my!

So, that's the reason guys aren't good babysitters... Huh... trying to think of the 'males' in my life doing several things at once... Does eat and watch TV at the same time count Seems there is some truth to this 'uni-tasking' explanation

What the ... and here I thought I was suppose to be nice Maybe it's a personal issue... for me, I'd rather not offend at this point, but maybe next week I'll change my mind. There are those that avoid conflict at all cost... mainly for their health~ mental & physical

And for me... this was the first time... thought it was clever... mean, but cleaver ;)

Sickening isn't it... Dear, dear Abigail... specific details may be gone forever. I do recall sitting 'around the table' at these pompous meetings... my thinking going in different directions. Who the heck did these people think they were? Were their lives so perfect they earned some right to discuss and direct the lives of others. (I believe I even put in a 'good work' for some folks, since I knew them better ... ... I was ignored!) Each of these leaders had their own problems... they had secrets... they greased palms... they told lies... and they put on a good show :unsure: Oh, my husband... yes, he HATED for a child to cry without being comforted. He insisted with our own, that I stay on it... until 'it was fixed' They never cried themselves to sleep... His reasoning was, since God would never leave us or forsake us, and He loved us and had mercy on us, we should treat our children with the same care and respect He had been REPROVED so many times, for so many years, I thought at one point I'd lose him. He was just a shell of a man not too long ago... regaining confidence was a struggle for him, and at times would go off in a dangerous direction. The tension, anger, frustration, bewilderment was so intense… I must say, all the work to get out of TWI and it's twisted, mind/life controlling teachings and techniques, have been worth all the effort... and yet, we're still working on it :(

The Curtain Rods She spent the first day packing her belongings into boxes, crates and suitcases. On the second day, she had the movers come and collect her things. One the third day, she sat down for the last time at their beautiful dining room table by candlelight, put on some soft background music and feasted on a pound of shrimp, a jar of caviar and a bottle of chardonnay. When she had finished, she went into each and every room and stuffed half-eaten shrimp shells dipped in caviar into the hollow of all of the curtain rods. She then cleaned up the kitchen and left. When the husband returned with his new girlfriend, all was bliss for the first few days. Then, slowly, the house began to smell. They tried everything: cleaning, mopping and airing the place out. Vents were checked for dead rodents, carpets were steam cleaned and air fresheners were hung everywhere. Exterminators were brought in to set off gas canisters, during which they had to move out for a few days, and in the end they even paid to replace the expensive wool carpeting. Nothing worked. People stopped coming over to visit. Repairmen refused to work in the house. The maid quit. Finally, they could not take the stench any longer and decided to move. A month later, even though they had cut their price in half, they could not find a buyer for their stinky house. Word got out and eventually, even the local realtors refused to return their calls. Finally, they had to borrow a huge sum of money from the bank to purchase a new place. The ex-wife called the man and asked how things were going. He told her the sage of the rotting hour. She listened politely and said that she missed her old home terribly and would be willing to reduce her divorce settlement in exchange for getting the house back. Knowing his ex-wife had no idea how bad the smell was, he agreed on a price that was about 1/10th of what the house had been worth, but only if she were to sign the papers that very day. She agreed, and, within the hour his lawyers delivered the paperwork. A week later, the man and his girlfriend stood smiling as they watched the moving company pack everything to take to their new home, including the curtain rods. I just love a happy ending, don't you???

The RACE I'm referring to, is the RACE of those who have proved themselves worthy to LIVE WITHIN THE WALLS OF ZION... Not from a physical region or color~ Those OUTSIDE these walls were referred to as dogs. They could even have been INSIDE the walls at one time, but due to their BELIEVING/ACTIONS, have found themselves AS DOGS RETURNING TO THEIR OWN VOMIT, no longer welcome. (some worthy of death) Most of life in TWI became some sort of analogy/example of the OLD TESTAMENT… Being a Homo meant NO WORTH TO GOD AT ALL... (Jews & others had no worth to Hitler) Disobedient children... well, I do recall hearing on several occasions the record of this 'type' of child being stoned to DEATH. And for those who could NOT keep their minds closed to devil spirits should be put to death, so the spirit would no longer have a HOME. There is a teaching from TWI, stating that it was better to have an abortion, than to give birth to a retarded or deformed baby. Because life was difficult enough without having a child like THAT. (again, similar to Hitler's views) I remember discussing this while pregnant with our 4th child. My daughter remembers hearing those conversations, and asked me a couple of years ago (3 YEARS had past, and she was a Sophomore in High School)… "Mom, if there would have been something wrong with me when I was inside you, would you have killed me?” I see similarities…... and I also think there could have been MORE than 6 million!

I had asked God to help me forget all of this foolishness, in hopes that I could be on my way to mature into a functioning, sane Adult~ enjoying many of the wonderful people and activities surrounding me... BUT this statement brought back a FLOOD of memories! Yes... living in MICHIGAN, we were THERE... and we supported the whole thing too! Couldn't WAIT to get to HEADQUARTERS , see the people... be in the BEAUTIFUL auditorium, sing, eat, drive, fellowship... I LOVED it :) Even got close to some New Knoxville locals... I won't mention who... they might get in trouble for showing me some extra attention What an idiot I was~

How very sad Wish I would have known Sandi... sounds like she's left behind some beautiful people & memories~ How old would she have been today? Was she suffering physically? You don't have to answer if it's too painful... and sorry if it is :(

Many of these leaders gathered 'their faithful' men and woman, and started their own group... we personally know some of these people... practicing THE SAME stuff TWI taught ... some are even worse in the yelling/pressure catagory. They speak LOVE & GRACE... but are vicious! Leaving TWI for these people didn't seem as difficult, they just changed LOCATIONS/NAMES... continuing pretty much with the same patterns. Some I heard are okay <_<

Ah Groucho :) I was no ordinary FOOL, and what was plain to those dogs OUTSIDE the WALLS OF ZION, well, they didn't have a clue when it came to SPIRITUAL MATTERS ;) J/K of course... but for those still in, thoughts of LEAVING can be terrifying~ and that is VERY REAL :( Some people figure there just too OLD to lose the only life they've really known...

ding, ding, ding, ding, ding..... buzzzz, buzzzz... whoowhooo! Oh Patriot, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Each of your examples, we've seen, experienced most of them and MORE... (think I could type on for weeks about this) After leaving TWI in 2002, Hubby & I were in a stupor . For over 20 years we had some leadership directing us. Maybe not so noticeable in the beginning, for all of us SPIRITUALLY IGNORANT, LOST, DOG LIKE men and women of only BODY & SOUL.... the COUNCIL was a constant. My first Twig experience, I didn't care for much. An evening with some wild (corps) women, (men were off doing something else). This group of gals seemed more interested in SEX, jokes about SEX, their cayenne pepper consumption and the effects it had for their husbands during SEX... There was included the short ritual of prayer & bible reading... Everything told me to RUN!!! BUT there was a young man checking up on me, almost daily, letting me know my discomfort was due to all the wrong practices and thoughts in my life, and as more of the 'rightly divided word' was exposed to me, all the negative things would fade away, and I'd feel right at home, under the direct protection of God. He let me know that 'quitting' would be dangerous, since the devil only wanted to keep me from the TRUTH. This was my chance, he would swear, if I wanted POWER in my life I needed to... do this, take this class...blah, blah, blah, blah-blah.... and thus the DIRECTION/COUNCEL BEGAN! At first it was mostly about classes. I don't ever remember being totally left to make my own decisions about them, there was ALWAYS direction given, and usually with pressure. After a couple of classes, came the ONLY other choice to GROW... going WOW. If I wanted to grow 10 years in 1, this was my only choice. There was DIRECTION/COUNCEL given for every week of each of those 21 years. The grip became tighter with each passing year. Our focus was being controlled, and we became like children, which we believed was a GOOD QUALITY SINCE TWI TAUGHT, THE MORE CONTROLLED YOUR LIFE IS, THE MORE FREEDOM YOU REALLY HAVE (drive heave...gag, gag, wipe) We were being GROOMED to be LEADERS We KNEW HOW TO OBEY! (VOMIT) We became HFC's... and were told what to teach, when to teach, communicated almost daily w/ the BC's, and encouraged to GET INTO THE BUSINESS of our people… this was strange for us, but we were shown HOW TO DO IT! All the 'coordinators' would get together for meetings at least once a month... Write down in our calendars the ‘events’ coming up, getting like-minded, and talk about people discuss and condemn their actions... ummm, I even remember discussing Abigail & her ex frequently. So, after 21 years in TWI, we stood in a STUPOR... in our 40's, not ONLY UNSURE of what we wanted out of life, but clueless as to what was out there. We DID NOT know which way to go, or even where to begin. Like young kids lost in a Mall, with an unsure feeling of new High School Graduate~ THE MOST UNSETTELING ASPECT OF THIS, our FOUR children had always thought we knew most EVERYTHING about life, and we thought we did too.

I found it... www.bizymoms.com Right there on the Home Page under the Poem on the Right. Thanks, Safari