CoolWaters

Well dang, White Dove, at least I know how to get you to come over to my house now. :D--> >-} Just be warned...me, my hubs and my son do these kinds of things as family entertainment. I can see it now...the 4 of us (or 5 if there's a Ms White Dove) sitting around the game table on a Saturday night..."I'll see your 4 web puzzles and raise you 3 Singing Ladies of the Way tapes." BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! ************** D! Got that screwdriver on the first try! I'm so proud of you! Makes a mamma cry. :D--> **************** Impressive, Zix...exceptin' I did it in 7 mins...once I had as many clues as are on this thread. ;)--> Now I can zip through it in under 2 minutes. It takes me that long because I try to trick myself. Sigh. :D-->

Insidious is the word that comes to mind: Speaking with somebody earlier today, it was recalled just how well planned the defamation of character that was/is practiced by twi. TWI had every "expert" available in their ranks...psychologists/psychiatrists, police officers, medical doctors, social workers, political figures, attorneys and others with standing in the courts, financial planners/advisors, etc. It was nothing to twi to bring together a team of "experts" and defame anyone's character when needed. Add this to the fact that twi preyed/preys on young people without enough life experience to understand that a restraining order and/or a cease and desist order would have at least had twi leadership a$$e$ in court answering for their practices. I can think of some children who would have not had to suffer as terribly as they did if anybody realized what DISCOVERY would have brought to light. So aside from inflicting emotional damage or exacting revenge, I say that twi held to/holds to their insidious practices for the purpose of covering a$$ in a courtroom.

The memo in the top right hand dresser drawer has a url on it. Go to the url (in a different window, of course...or you'll have to start all over again) and the safe code is right there. You get out of the room by opening the door. That's what the screwdriver is for. :D--> Remember this is also about patience...so there are things you have to do more than once or twice...and things that can be grabbed or used only in a certain spot.

CW -- sounds like twi!!! :D--> Are THEY behind this room? I dunno...well, I do know, but if I tell you then you won't play the game. >-} ;)-->

Tom, you need a flash player. http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/downlo...=ShockwaveFlash

LOL Raf!!!!!!!!! The point is to get out...and to learn from your mistakes...and to value patience...and to be thorough. Either that or it's a good way to pass a boring afternoon. Want a hint? You need 3 items to open the box...and those 3 items are not found by a quick click-through.

I dunno! Who is King Crimson? You have to get out of the room. Click around and see what you can see...find what you can find. This one is very, very hard, btw. It took me over 3 hours and 2 very good hints (well, the last "hint" was really instructions...sigh). Good luck! ;)--> :D--> Also, I dunno what kind of dance it is...just had the animation hanging around for awhile and finally figured out what to do with it. :D--> TYVM.

http://www.zone.ee/crimsonroom/

Test OK! TYVM Paw! :D-->

{{{{{Roy}}}}}

Well, OM, you win. You got something out of twi that thousands didn't. I guess I'm just a dumb b*tch that couldn't pull water from a well...because I'd blame the hole in the bucket or refuse to drink it after I found out that there were dead, rabies infested rats floating around in the water. I gotta tell ya, though... I know a man just like you. He got of twi with his wife and children intact. He says, "I never left twi...twi left me." He has his own church. He has a thriving business. He's gone on to get his doctorate degree in theology. He's a well-respected member of his community. His two oldest children are award-winning college kids. His wife walks around saying, "I can honestly say I'm the happiest woman alive." He has set aside for their old age. They stick to the "pure" twi doctrines. They are very, very happy. I just can't figure out why his wife and children (all 4 of them) struggle with anorexia. Or why he spits just like lcm when he gets mad at people who disagree with him. Or why he has to rent out his church building to other congregations that are starting up because nobody but extwi people go to his church...and only 2 families abs to his church...his and the family of the other board members. Or why the new congregations grow out of the space in his church within a year while his church loses attendees every year. I dunno. Maybe anorexia, slinging spit wads in fits of rage, and never "moving the word" beyond your board of directors is living the more than abundant life. After all, that's worked for twi all of these years.

Touche, OM, touche! I tend to forget about the offshoots. Sigh. :(--> You could have gotten these things anywhere else...and you would have if you were looking for them. But those are not tangible benefits. How did being involved in twi benefit you in, say, your family life? Or your business life? Or in your interpersonal relationships? Or your educational life? Or, now that we're all beginning to get there, your preparation for old age?

Now if you think TWI was evil from the start, nothing but a stupid cult, I guess you think the above is stupid, ungodly and self-serving. It's your choice how to look at it. For too many years I looked at it all as "godly". Figured there was something wrong with me. Then it began to dawn on me that the whole structure of twi...the "way tree"...the classes...the mlm structure...the unending seminars, branch and limb meetings...the unending publications from books and records to pamphlets, videos and study programs...the whole structure was designed to create a closed system... A system in which one's exposure to anything besides what the "leader" wanted one exposed to did not exist because if it did, one would hear about it and one's life would be made a living hell. That's a cult.

One sees this in corporate america every day. One company I worked for awhile back would bring in the "bad boys" to give us all bad news. We'd all get up in arms and ready to quit. The company would let us grouse around for a few hours...even let us not perform our work. Then the company would send in the "good guys" to "help" us do our jobs. Usually what would happen is the top producing team would be singled out and brought together to "discuss" how the news would have been better received. This gave a feeling of ownership to us worker bees. We'd give ideas of how to soften the blow and what would encourage us to continue producing even in the face of bad news. (Like one year it took 6 months before our raises were reflected in our paychecks.) What happened is that the company took that information and turned it against our co-workers. People would be taken aside and instead of being given a reward for their work, they were chastised for not measuring up in "times of stress". It was always the "good guys" who delivered such "counsel". It was done to make people feel guilty for "thinking evil" about the person who was delivering the "counsel". Yep, use the "good guys" to do the dirty work...that way people's feelings will be confused...then all you have to do is cash in on the confusion.

Thousands of others? Come up with those thousands, OM. Do what you say none of us can do...prove it. Also, prove the benefits you received from twi. From your posts here, the only "benefit" you received was how to raise the state of denial to an obscene level.

I surmised nothing, OM. For anyone (lcm or anyone else) to compare his/her actions to those of Moses, one must consider oneself on the par of Moses. And what is this crap you're always doing about, "Did anyone go to Don? You point fingers at people and say, "Did anybody take their concerns to lcm or other leadership?" People tell you, "Yes we went to lcm and other leadership", there are copies of letters on the 'net people have written to lcm and other leadership, you cannot deny that people, hundreds and hundreds of people, did in fact do their utmost best to stop lcm's greasing of the skids on that slippery slope to hell. Then you turn around and say, "Yes, but did anybody go to Don about it all?" If Don W missed hundreds and hundreds of letters...missed a state senator (or two or so), a DA's office (or two or so) and several newspapers and other media attempting to get statements from the bod...missed that good people were being ousted for nothing more than disagreeing...missed this whole boat you say he missed... Then Don was either dumber than a pile of rocks or was closing his eyes. Either way, it would not have helped to go to Don. Why can't you just admit to yourself that you were in an ungodly cult and start to grow up and heal a little bit?

LCM and Moses are or ever were comparable? Wow. I guess when one was deep into the cult-think, that would be the expected mindset. But now that one is out and knows what was going on and just how far from "godly" lcm got...wow, I cannot even imagine comparing lcm to Moses anymore. As for how other churches operate... Most non-cultish denominations do not allow the lead pastors to have ultimate authority. Most pastors are accepted into a church body via vote by that body. Most denominations expect the pastor to be a servant. His/her wages and quality of life are totally dependent upon tithes and offerings...and he/she is often the one who doesn't get paid if there is a shortfall somewhere. Health insurance coverage is often far short of what even state medicaid plans could offer. His/her children often wear hand-me-downs...and those are often obtained not by direct gift, but from leftovers from the church bazaar. There are many differences between cult leadership and honest pastors. Many.

OK, make sure you click on the "Porn Star..." story. When the new windows opens, do not select a subject, just choose which player you want to use and then click on "watch". If you click on a "related video" you won't see the one I'm talking about.

I saw this on Oprah yesterday. It's a town that is almost totally populated by members of a cult...a polygamist cult. What these women and girls had pounded in their heads...it was just too close to what twi teaches about the "place" of women and children in the "body" and the "home". You can watch parts of "After the Show". Go here: http://www.oprah.com/tows/after/200310/tow..._20031009.jhtml and then click on the "Watch Now" button. When they are talking about child molestation...oh man...it sounds just like twi. :(-->

I'd have to agree. But the letter didn't come out as a "corporate" letter...a letter from a CEO to board members and/or stockholders. It came out as MOG to followers. Mixing up "godly" with corporate survival is, well, cultish.

What is godly about that?

OM, please define "godly" and "word". I mean, seriously, how can anyone define men as MOGs when they used the bible to defend obviously unbiblical stances? I Corinthians 3 addresses the undefendable action of putting people in a "with me or agin me?" position. Let's not forget I Corinthians 12...and Jesus...who chastised his disciples for having the same concerns. So please, OM, define "godly" and "word".

Let me get this straight... LCM sent a loyalty letter. That letter demanded people make a choice between LCM and anybody else. Basically it boiled down to: Are you of Paul (VPW), or Apollos (LCM) or Cephas (Geer)? And this is somehow OK in the "movement of the word"? Even "the word" that LCM supposedly wanted to move speaks of this mentality "carnal" if nothing else. Why would a MOG--even a pretend MOG--ever be justified in putting people in such a position? Why would anyone want to justify the MOG putting people in such an "off the word" position?

I tried to change my signature to <P> <CENTER><a href="http://www.ravenblack.net/random/surreal.html><img src="http://feyaurora.com/images/sigs/surreal.jpg"></a><P></CENTER> It didn't work. I tried and tried. Then I read the little not in my profile window next to the signature box that said, "HTML allowed if given permission". I had permission once upon a time. What'd I do?

Hmmmm! What a question! Immediately after leaving twi I chose Apostolic churches because they operate the "gifts" in a fairly orderly fashion. Then I found out they were trinitarian. Then followed several years of running loosely organized home fellowships. That became mundane and without much fruit. For a few years after that, we didn't go anywhere for church and/or fellowship. That got lonely. One day we were convinced to attend a Vineyard church. We stayed there for several months while we learned more about how deeply twi had imprinted our brains and our understanding. That church was too far out of town for us (nearly 2 hours away). We hosted home fellowships here and there again. By then, however, I was in real doubt about the validity of home fellowships. Then we began attending a new church some family friends opened. It took us nearly 4 years before we realized that they were nothing more than a twi offshoot...even involved in a bigger offshoot. I was M&A from that church. Part of the reason for M&A was that I had begun to embrace mainstream church doctrines. Particularly the idea that Jesus is present and is with us always. Also, I embraced the need for ritual. So I got baptized in and joined a United Methodist Church. I got too deeply involved with the church to appreciate it as a house of worship any longer. By then I was thoroughly disillusioned with christianity. This was followed by some dreams and some visions. Now I am happy to praise, worship, serve and practice all by own self. It clears the lines of communication between me and the Universe.