CoolWaters

Which is why the way you beat people over the head with bible verses is very telling. One at me...four back at yourself. What did you do about it? Did you contact the authorities? Did you try to stop it? Did you do anything, lift one single sanctimonious finger to protect the children? Yep. No, mj, we are not talking about that. You are talking about that...you brought that thought pattern into the conversation as a way to browbeat parents.

How does what you say here fit with what you say in your paragraph I quoted above...about the pediatricians in your community? It doesn't.

The bible says to beat a child. You use the bible as a baseball bat against people...but then turn around and make exceptions. Do the parents of your community know that you think they are stupid and have lazy parenting techniques? If they don't, someone oughta let them in on the secret.

Tee hee...this made me think of a line from a rap song... Baby's got back. Tee hee.

I have spoken one-on-one with JAL. He acknowledged that what twi "taught" was far different that twi practiced. I have spoken one-on-one with 3 other folks who were limb leaders I had to deal with while in twi. Each of them acknowledged that there was a "public" face of twi...and a "private" face of twi...and that private face was all too often scandalous to say the least. I have spoken one-on-one with our dear Mike. Even he acknowledges that there was a huge difference between "official" twi positions and "behind-the-scenes" twi positions. The majority of extwi people I have come in contact with on the 'net agree that what twi put out in public was often far different from what twi practiced with the "initiated". Anybody can go to twi's current website and see what would appear to be a stereotypical aging church group. Hell, even MSNBC was taken in by twi's schtick...and would have never known they had been hoodwinked unless folks from GSC had given them the 411. Those people who refuse to acknowledge that twi as an organization knew about and winked at "behind-the-scenes" activities that either bordered on the criminal or were actually criminal, these people who refuse to hear the truth... They are either current twi participants in deep denial or... They refuse to admit to their own dirty hands... Or both.

IMO, everybody ever involved in twi...because twi was born upon, grew upon, thrived upon and still lives upon the fact that they have convinced people with real problems that the only solution to those problems is twi.

The lady doth protest too much.

Baseball is the best because a grandpa can explain it to his granddaughter with no inappropriate language at all...and let her watch/listen to games without first checking for R or X ratings. :)-->

The fact that a Branch Leader not only perpetrated the crimes but was tried, convicted and imprisoned...this doesn't make you think that leaders openly allowed children to be molested? Hmmm...then what exactly do the words Branch Leader mean? OK, so I kept my daughter away from the man. Beyond that I was supposed to keep my mouth shut and let him continue to run a children's fellowship? That I was not supposed to take it to the highest authorities? That it was too bad, so sad if the other parents weren't as bright as I was? Hmmmm...so exactly how are parents supposed to know somebody is a known child molester if the victim's parents keep their mouths shut? Yep...you've got that one right. Here you are dead wrong. Not only did twi people steal evidence from my home, twi people sat in front of my home for several nights after telling me that I would die for going outside of "the body". Hey, selective reader...I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT TEENAGERS. (Yeah...I'm yelling...because you obviously can't hear very well.) The children I've been talking about were from the ages of 3yo to 7yo. Then why not just say that and leave it at that? Why go to all the effort to discredit anybody who knows better....except that old dogs can't be taught new tricks. Yeah..."young girls"...7 year olds? 3 year olds? This is just plain sickness of the brain. Hey, selective reader...I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT TEENAGERS. (Yeah...I'm yelling...because you obviously can't hear very well.) Basically, this post of yours...like nearly all of the other posts of yours...sums up to say... "You were stupid parents. Your little girls wanted the attention of those men. Even if you did go to the authorities, even if the guy did get arrested, even if you kept your children safe from it ever happening again, you should keep your mouth shut and not tell other parents whose children are exposed to the perpetrator. And whatever you do, it's stupid to expect a pedophile's boss to stop placing that pedophile in a position of authority over children. Shut up about all of this or I'm going call you stupid and immature and tell everybody what lousy parents you are." WTG, mj. Your example of exactly how twi dealt with leadership who were also pedophiles is better than others trying to explain how it all went down. Gawd I gotta love you! You just make communicating twi's mentality so much easier sometimes! Thank you, {{{{{mj}}}}}. :)-->

Danged good job there, Shaz! TYVM! :)--> Just a couple of things for clarification's sake... Until WayDale, I never knew that one of the perps had a before and after AK history of pedophilia in twi. Others have provided this information. There were at least 3 perps in AK...a BC who coordinated a children's fellowships in the area, an assitant BC who co-cooridinated that same children's fellowship, and a "babe in the word" who attended twig at the BC's home. All 3 were tried, convicted and imprisoned. The "babe in the word" was a state licensed daycare provider who was highly recommended as a daycare provider by several of the non-twi ministers and congregants in Anchorage. It was not only twi children. TWI housed and generally took care of the BC's wife while the BC was in prison. I have actual direct knowledge only of how/where the "babe in the word" was caught. The State of Alaska took custody of some of the children.

:(--> Dang, dmiller...just when I was nearly all ready for your coronation...had a ball gown picked out and all...sigh...

{{{{{mj}}}}} All it took was for you to keep posting...keep "talking"....until I understood you. Now that I understand you, no big deal...to each his/her own. {{{{{ExC}}}}}...yeah....I have black and white thinking about this issue...and I'm not sure I'm ready to blur any of those lines into gray areas...or if I ever will...because, imo, there has to be a point where wrong is wrong and right is right. ********************* Hindsight is 20/20. Every answer to every problem is easy to see when it's not your problem.

These words...familiar...and recognizable... Near exactly the same words of the twi leadership in AK...Gar* Ki*g...Ri*h U*k*h*rt...S*e*v* *i**e*...*o* and *a**y *a*e...S*e*e *r*s**o*g... Now I know...now it all makes sense... Thanks, mj, for clearing all your words up for me.

Absolutely! In a direct reply to specific things that have been said here, I directed a simple question to the posters of those specific things. Neither have bothered to even attempt an answer, but have, instead, continued an attempt to deceive people into blaming children for what happened to them at the hands of twi. That simple question is: "What is wrong with child abuse in the first place?" The answer to this question seems obvious, doesn't it? Why won't they answer it, then? Because they know that in the honest answering of the question, they will have no place to hide themselves and who/what they are/have become. So I'm going to answer the question...because it's important to know the depth of harm done when a child is abused. Before I get into what I'm going to say, I'm providing some links to internet pages with more information. If you are at all interested in this subject, these links will provide you with enough information to get more information. If all you want to do is make stupid and abusive arguments to support your mentality, then nothing I do or say can help you. So here are the links...some of them are to .pdf files, so you will need to be able to read .pdf documents...have at it: http://www.cyc-net.org/cyc-online/cycol-0302-mcpherson.html http://psych.wisc.edu/childemotion/pubs.html http://www.childreninc.org/CCW6RegFinal.pdf http://www.du.edu/~adeprinc/dtsyllabus.pdf http://psych.unn.ac.uk/users/nick/hormonespp12/tsld021.htm http://www.jimhopper.com/services/#topics http://www.krispin.com/BioOne.html http://wso.williams.edu/~hngo/health/ref.htm (there are links to other sites at the bottom of this page) http://www.snahec.org/pcanv/info/info.html http://www.nap.edu/books/0309048893/html/index.html There are hundreds, if not thousands, of pages of information on the internet concerning this subject....and I cannot and will not post all of the results here. If you want to do your own search and want to know how I did mine, I did 3 searches on Yahoo. The first search was for "Effects of Child Abuse". The second search was for "Biochemical Effects of Child Abuse". The third search was for "Developmental Effects of Child Abuse". I put each phrase in " " marks to narrow the results. Now to my post... It is generally agreed among professionals that child abuse in and of itself need not affect a person's whole life for as long that person lives. But mind you, this is a loose generalization with many qualifiers that need to be remembered. Generally, there are five major areas considered when determining how an abused child will fare as an adult. First, how long the abuse continued in a child's life. Second, how the abuse was perceived by authority figures in the child's life. Third, what and how many types of abuse the child suffered. Fourth, the child's perception of what happened. And fifth, the child's perception of him/herself. Long term effects of child abuse are myriad. For many years the long term mental effects of child abuse have been known. More recently, however, it has been proven that an abused child's brain does not develop normally, and that the biochemical exchanges in the body do not function properly. The more the abuse is chronic, compounded, minimalized and ignored, the more damage is done to the child's developing brain, hormonal systems and other biochemical processes. In other words, child abuse inflicts not only mental damage to a child, but also inflicts brain damage and stunts development. The longer a child is abused, the worse the damage.....in severe cases, the damage is done to the point it is irreversible. What has all of this got to do with "Child Abuse in TWI"? Oh, my friends, it is so plain to see that it is often missed. TWI, as with all cults/gangs, found its most sumptuous prey in the disillusioned, disheartened, disenfranchised, disowned, disdained...folks looking for answers to their problems...who responded to a hug, a smile, attention, a promise of POWER for ABUNDANT living from....ta da!...a "father in the word". Who the hell would need such things except those who didn't have any of them in the first place? --> --> So now it's been found out that twi housed more than its fair share of pedophiles, other sex offenders, child abusers, thieves, etc...and that twi as an organization winked at those in leadership positions who were perpetrating such things...and turned a blind eye, a deaf ear and a hardened heart against those who let loose the warning sirens and blew the whistles to the proper authorities. Yeah...we should have known...but I, for one, came to twi a broken teenager with nowhere else to go except back to a home where I grew up raped and beaten bloody...and twi, with feigned words, made merchandise of me and my family. Yeah...I was stupid. Shame on me.

How does this virtual spittle spewing from an apoplectic rage answer my question? What is wrong with child abuse in the first place?

This thread is titled, "Child Abuse in TWI". How is it that it's been derailed so treacherously (by those who I get the feeling were probably the biggest culprits) into blaming the victims?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Someone says, "TWI has no power over you except that which your actions allow." What place does that kind of mentality (which is common among perpetrators) have in a thread about children who were abused?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Someone else says, "Im asking those who claim to be victims to consider their own place in the decision making process of "what happened". many more folks where able to maintain healthy boundaries and say no to those they felt pressure from...these stories of extreme do indeed tell alot about those who allowed them to happen and bottom line each person is responsible for only him or herself before the Lord." Children fall into this sanctamonious blathering?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Y'all are showing some colors I don't think you are meaning to show... But since y'all are putting all your stuff out here to be discussed... What's wrong with child abuse in the first place? After all, as someone above said, "...children are not idols to be worshipped anymore than a organization like twi is ,life within the spirt goes beyond having children..." It's hard to argue with this kind of thinking. My mother always said, "I don't argue with crazy." I've changed that to, "Can't argue with crazy...the foundation is cracked." So, please, OM and mj (and anybody who shares their mentality), please tell us what is wrong with child abuse in the first place?

Doesn't this just say it all, {{{{{SongDude}}}}}? :D--> There's nothing for you to apologize for...because when I went back and looked at my post, I saw exactly your point...so I am sorry...and you forgive me...and we are kewl. :D--> Also...we've "known" each other here on the 'net for awhile...and I've never seen anything that you've written that would indicate you to be anything like some folks in AK....ya know? Emotions overrun brains a whole lot when talking about twi...which is good imo...because we weren't allowed to express them when we first experienced them...so they all come out at the oddest of moments...then we can apply brains to them and figure them out...:D--> And somehow I think that this thread is actually exemplifying Abi's original point...we are all one...feeling, thinking, growing together...

Oh yeah? 1984? Then you must be good buddies with R*** U******...the guy who was BC in Alaska and ran the Children's Fellowship pedophilia ring...who, btw, is STILL "in good standing" after not once, not twice, not thrice, but at least 4 times heading up such a ring in other states...and...oh yeah...going to prison once for the same thing. Guess that's the key to having a good experience in twi...do what you damned well please and suck (up to) vpw. But of course, since YOU didn't experience R*** U****** raping you, then it MUST have been completely the will of the children... That e-book is looking better and better the more you post, OM.

Yep, Raf, that's the movie...and I agree. To me, the most disturbing thing about the movie is that the main character (can't call her name right now) had just finished praying...telling God that if he didn't want her to kill herself, he'd better do something to change her life before her last 5 bucks was spent. Yeah...her life changed all right... But the end result was the same. That's disturbing.

Laughing My A$$ Off

Tee hee, White Dove! :D-->

LMAO Trefor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, we had a twig leader in Salinas, CA...Ge**** Pul***** by name...who was teaching that the "original sin" was that Eve, after giving Adam a bj, did not spit or swallow, but french-kissed Adam and made him swallow his own seed. I guess if somebody was teaching that, then somebody could teach this... All of it grown from the same poisoned seed... But I tell you one thing... IF I ever get to a place called "heaven" and there's a dude there named Jesus...and if that dude EVER expects me or anybody else to put out...well I'm taking the first pony out of Dodge.

If the Way Corps volunteer considered it as interference with their duty and commitment, they willingly signed the consent form, for what they thought was a greater purpose. Some considered it interference; some didn't. But it was always the individual's decision to make. Unless there were abortions at gunpoint? OM, You know, I could get mad at you for such stupidity...but that's just it...you know you're being stupid and you keep doing it...what's there to get mad at? If it wouldn't be considered flaming or something else against the rules here, I'd collect all your posts, along with the posts of some others with your mentality, put them together in an e-book, post a sticky post on this "About The Way" forum, say "For those of you who think The Way International is so terrific, take a look at the collected thoughts of some of its most loyal supporters", and then post a link to the e-book. If, after reading the e-book, anybody would consider twi anything but a destructive cult, I'd send them your email address so you all could start an offshoot of your own.

Goey....you're teasing...right?