CoolWaters

Yeah, Steve...yeah...I know... Sigh... It's very hard to let go of something...especially when it felt so good...and it's all that one has to hold onto sometimes. TWI trained us to have knee-jerk reactions to anything twi disagreed with...via the "steel your mind and guard your heart" mentality...and it's still hard for me not to have those knee-jerk reactions and be open-minded enough to consider that what sounds outlandish might not be so outlandish after all. So if it's so difficult for me, then I suppose it's as difficult for anyone else. One of my desires of participating here at GSC is to connect with people as human beings to human beings...not just as belief system to belief system...and not just as point/counterpoint. And, yeah... I have a hard time letting go of people in real life, too. I just remember all of the people who did not let go of me in life...and how very much it helped my life...

Wow! TYVM! It's good to know you're considering our words. Now I'll quit getting my panties in a knot and let you get on with you're considerations. I'm sorry to have jumped to wrong conclusions.

TY, ahat. :)--> ****************** OM, Did you really want a discussion? If so, were you really open to any biblical and/or logical viewpoints? I think I've been pretty doggoned open, honest and understanding with you...especially since you've made it known so very often that you really don't think much of me. Your responses on this thread (that you started) indicate that you started the thread just to start an argument. I want you to know one thing: I am not out to argue you into changing your mind. I took your initial post on this thread at face value...and, disregarding all previous interactions with you, gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were really seeking answers to the question(s) you posed. It takes courage, many years of hard work, a willingness to face death, and deep honesty to relinquish one's beliefs and let the spirit teach what the spirit will teach. It's no picnic. It's no easy way out. It's not the same as walking away from an organization. One must dig deep within oneself and be ready to honestly look at what comes up. Do you think that I put anything less than my whole life on the line when I let go of all that I had known? If you do, you are woefully short of understanding just what my beliefs meant to me. And you are woefully short of understanding anything about me. I thought you honestly wanted to know... So I responed to you in honesty... Yet here you are returning none of that honesty...to me or to anyone else. Is it really all that hard? What do you think is going to happen to you if you consider me as a real human being with worth, with wisdom, with standing in your court?

And, johniam, FYI... It wasn't "vpw's sins" that I "found out" that caused me to shun twi and all that twi is, was or ever will be. It was the organized coverup of crimes that twi practiced. My personal experience with twi isn't just one of little boo-boos and doctrinal differences. I eye-witnessed horrific child abuse. My daughter was molested and then blamed for being molested. My son was marked as a 'child of satan' before he was born. These things were done by the hands of twi members and twi leadership. TWI leadership, including vpw, mrs vpw, lcm, dm and every limb coordinator in the US, were made fully aware of these things via letters I hand wrote and mailed out certified mail at my own expense. Instead of doing what anybody with half a mind and less 'understanding of the word' would have done by removing the culprits from any authority over children, twi instead chose to hide the problem by moving around limb leaders and victims so that nobody could be found when it came time for court. If you think that an organized crime ring isn't to be shunned forever and ever, then have a blast with your life...'cause somebody else will if you don't. Sheesh! You'd think we were talking about an organization that was just a little odd.

johniam, I'm not calling OM a "cop out". I am advocating that people steer far clear of twi. OM asked for a discussion on this, so he's getting one. If you don't think that's fair, oh well...I don't know how to help you.

Wasn't Nights in White Satin the Topeka Branch Anthem...? ;)--> :P--> :D-->

Tee hee ExC!!!!!! LMAO!!!!! rascal, have you tried some Solarcaine (or any other benzocaine OTC product) to help stop the pain and itching? Also, oatmeal lightly wetted and caked over the rash will help it dry out and heal. Here's a site that you may find helpful. I'm praying for you, your children and your mare.

OM, don't you see that vpw, lcm, dm, et al, their teachings and their doctrines were/are the leaven? Maybe you don't get that point by reading just the first few verses of I Corinthians 5. But dang, dude! Practice what you preach and read the whole context! Then you will know that the head of the body of twi is leaven...and can only make a leavened lump. Not only were/are twi "leaders" leaven, they were/are false prophets, false teachers, liars, and manifested/manifest at least 15 of the 16 works of the flesh recorded in Galatians! TWI was, is and always will be an organization built upon the workings of the flesh as defined in Galatians. Therefore, if one wants to consider the whole context, then twi, its teachings and its doctrines can be seen only as "a little leaven". To think anything else about twi, its teachings and its doctrines is to ignore a vast majority of the bible itself. But that's what twi taught you...all of us...to do...so it should not come as a surprise to me that there are extwi folks who still practice this willfull ignorance. Sigh.

Cowgirl, I love the one with the chair so much that I made this little thingy from it:

TYVM danteh! :)-->

I don't mind who uses these images...with four basic rules... No commercial use whatsoever. Do not use for pornographic sites or for linking to pornographic sites. Save the images to your own hosting so that I do not exceed my hosting limits. Get permission from the people whose names are on the awards. And one request... If anybody wants to know who made the images, I would like the credit.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sure do, Raf! I made them for the folks who deserve them. Have fun! :D-->

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Oh, no doubt and too true! But had twi been honest about anything, there would have been no twi... IMO.

PS to Steve! I'm really not following you around...honest! :D-->

OM, Your interpretation of OH's parable would be acceptable... If you hadn't so often equated the water to the man...and tried to make others feel stupid for not doing so.

There is a big difference between selling something to cover costs and making lots of money off of something. Also, there's a big difference between services and products. In twi, everything except going to twig carried a price tag. Whether that price tag was direct by way of actual charges for services, or whether that price tag was indirect via demands to attend certain functions, there was always a price tag associated with everything twi did. And not just any old "if you want this, pay for it" price tag, either. TWI made sure that one was "humbled" properly so that one would "gladly" buy twi services... Because buying twi services was made akin to being right with God. That's pretty filthy lucre.

Exactly, Grizz. For both sides. **************** Long Gone, Please do not take what I have said in response to your posts personally. I have a whole lot of anger towards twi. Often when I post about twi, I am posting to those twi innies who are skulking around here seeking opportunity...behaving in the manner in which they are described to behave in Jude 1... And I am not particularly responding to the person who posted.

Is it wrong to make a lot of money selling "god's word"? I almost want to yell DUH!!!! But I know that many extwi people have no real clue about how the OT works with the NT...so I don't expect that there is an understanding that what was not good for the OT prophets is not good for the NT saints. Has anybody read Micah lately? In Micah 3:11 the hebrew word for "money" (Keceph) has its roots in the hebrew word Kacaph, meaning to long for, yearn for, long after. The meaning for all uses of "filthy lucre" in the NT is "eager for base gain, greedy for money". And which prophet was it that got into so much trouble for accepting payment for his services? Any "ministry" that charges fees for its services comes under suspicion with me. All throughout the bible that is something "that the heathens do". Looking to Jesus for an example, there was never a charge. In contrast, however, the example of Jesus was to feed the people...something Jesus told Peter at least 3 times as the way for Peter to show that he loved Jesus.