CoolWaters

Just what I was thinking, Catcup... Particularly with the suit in the works that will be coming up in early Autumn... And on that note... This makes it perfectly clear that vpw, at least, was to twi'ts what the Pope is to Catholics. No wonder twi cursed Catholics to hell and back all the time...vpw had competition! This isn't funny, either. I am crying from a broken heart towards God. How dare vpw...and the rest of us all?

Then why oh why oh why did he allow the lie of an Absent Jesus to dominate all twi's teachings?

David, I don't know exactly how I missed things in twi (well...I do know...but that's not the point, exactly, just this second), but there seems to be a major difference between the rhema and the logos... And the whole "magnified thy word above all thy name" comes into play here, too. From what I have come to understand, it is widely understood that in Ephesians 6:17 the "word of God" being spoken of is the Revealed Word: i.e., Jesus. Also, in Psalms 138:2, it is clear that "thy word" is the Spoken Word: the same root as used in Genesis 1.

This just blows my mind, WD. Did you listen to the teaching? I'd love to hear it.

You like Ephesians, huh? A few of weeks ago I learned something at church about a verse in Ephesians that I never learned in twi... We were talking about this whole "absent Jesus" thing and I blurted out, "I've been taught it's right in the Bible...right there in Ephesians 6:17." Everybody's (it was a small group of about 12) jaw dropped and they all stared at me, mouths agape and eyes bulging, in shock. Anybody know why?

Just a simple question here... If my mind is not renewed to any degree, and if I'm screwing up all over the place, and if it's looking like it's all she wrote for me, and I don't even care enough to pray... Where does that leave me?

Yeah! What you just said! :D-->

This thread took a turn I didn't expect...but that's what's so great about the open dialogue of this board! :D--> Mike, I am impressed that you recognize the difference between a trinity/no trinity discussion and an absent Jesus discussion. Good job! :)--> However, you are missing the point of what I and others are saying here. Have you ever heard of the parable of the Sower and the Seed? Even if what you are saying about veep is true, veep allowed, nay, RETAINED AND DEFENDED everybody below him to pluck up the seed of truth and plant the seeds of lies. The only way anybody could know the difference of what veep ALLOWED and what veep thought would be to do as you have done: study veep night and day. Quite frankly, Mike, Jesus is who I prefer to follow... After all, Jesus is who is rightfully Lord... Right? ****************** Hiya def! Very interesting point! One I was too cowardly to make...thinking I was asking for enough garbage as was. LOL But it's true...that's what it says. Know something else? It says the same thing repeatedly all over the gospels! Whodda thunk? ************** Darlene Thelma Belle! It's soooooooooo good to read you with your fresh-out perspective! ****************** WW, Good points! ***************** Sunesis, Excellent! Once I understood that there is nothing that can be done for my flesh...that there is a huge difference between broken Man and God... Well, God was then able to begin healing my mind by straightening out the crooked places. He's a much more AWESOME and LOVING God than I could have EVER imagined because twi twisted the bible to the point that anybody following twi teachings could possibly never find the truth. But twi forgot that "renewed mind" is NOT the key to power... That God is a sovereign, omnipotent God! So guess what? God knew the way through my wilderness...aka twi brain...and was able to send Jesus after me, a lost sheep. So... Nah nah nah nah boo boo on twi! :P-->

And that teaching is a lie of the nth degree for two reasons. First because it leads a person to understand that God's power is accessable via the flesh. Second because it does demand fleshly perfection. TWI teaches "perfectly renewed mind". Yeah...OM...me too...hint hint...

What's the difference? Believing=Receiving is Works based. It is based upon me doing something to make things happen. Grace is Faith based. It is based upon God doing what I cannot do. TWI teaches Believing=Receiving. TWI spends thousands of hours "teaching" how to "believe to receive". Nobody ever gets the same results. Nobody ever gets results every time. Because of this twi blames people's lack of "believing". If this happens often enough, twi uses people as bad examples...to keep other people in the group in line. The Bible teaches Grace. Purely and simply, there is nothing I can do for or by myself to bring anything to pass. I never really quite understood all of this until a few days ago when chatting with a couple of ladies at church. We were talking about how to pray. It was said that the best way to learn to pray is to pray the scriptures out loud. This, it was said, is the best type of praying because it is speaking scriptures into being. After a little more conversation along this line, the question was asked, "How come I don't see answers every time? Where was God when I wasn't getting answers?" The response was, "Did you invite God into the situtaion and tell Him exactly what you were asking? You have to do that because God gave us free will...and He will not overstep free will by imposing Himself where He was not invited." Wow. All those years of "believing" by "naming it and claiming it" with varied and most unsatisfying results... And all I had to do was invite God in to do His work and His will. So it's true, huh? His Grace is sufficient!

The REALLY BIG road to possession was always... Have a relationship with Jesus.

Tranquilize me, huh? I don't think so, buddy....

The bible does not support this in any shape or form...and the only way it supports this is veep's "way". Read John 17 carefully. Jesus states very clearly that He is present. Dividing things into 3 pieces to make his doctrine fit is exactly what veep did...and he was wrong...and he led people away from Jesus by teaching this.

OM... I learned that song correctly when I was 2 or 3 years old...in the Nazarene church. See? You missed the whole point of what I was saying because you wanted to defend something that was so wrong it couldn't even get that song correct. TWI taught you to think like this... And you're being robbed.

This thread brought to my mind one of Jesus' prayers. The Prayer of the High Priest

I'm posting this in "About the Way" to illustrate just what twi robbed us of by teaching us an "absent Jesus" and directing us away from the gospels. After reading this, I saw THE difference between what twi teaches as "the word" and what is actually "The Word". Can anybody imagine for one second either veep or loy or the BOD praying such a prayer? I can't...because for all the nearly 30 years I was in twi and/or twi offshoots, I never ever ever even read this chapter...much less had any idea the Christianity called this chapter The Prayer of the High Priest. John 17 1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee, 2 since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. 4 I glorified thee on earth, having accomplished the work which thou gavest me to do; 5 and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made. 6 I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them to me, and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they know that everything that thou hast given me is from thee; 8 for I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine; 10 all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I am coming to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. 18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. 20 I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, the world has not known thee, but I have known thee; and these know that thou hast sent me. 26 I made known to them thy name, and I will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."

OMG!!!!! Yer right!!!! Please don't tell my husband that I'm getting so old that I'm confusing Beatles' lyrics!!!! Sigh. :o--> ;)-->

Last October I was hospitalized with sepsis. Sepsis is a nasty thing and frequently kills folks like me. (35% death rate in Severe Sepsis...50% death rate in Septic Shock.) Sepsis is very painful. Sepsis induces hallucinations. The hallucinations I had for 3 days of my hospital stay were conversations with Jesus while he was on the cross. When I asked him how endured the cross, he said, "Prayer". Anyone who spends time praying knows the joy of being in the presence of the Father. I'm not saying this is "right". I am saying it's something to think about.

After what we went through with the BSA when my son was involved, I wish that the BSA were this concerned with pedophiles. First, the BSA is not going to allow a "ga?roup. To be called a "boy scout group", the group must adhere to the BSA policies. Second...oh...yeah...right...then people wouldn't think it was about getting dates. Sigh. To quote the lyrics of Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds... "Living is easy with eyes closed." They can. But just like with their rights, others have the right to say, "Not here." Said a mouthful with that one, fer shure...

Oooops! Those are the electric ones! Eeek! Sorry. I've gotta run to a meeting...but if you can't find some propane ones at the Coleman website, I'll try to find you some later on tonight.

Dear Thelma Belle Darlene, There are such things as propane ACs. We get them here in KS at Dick's Sporting Goods. They're kinda pricey, but they work GREAT!!!! Here's a link (hope it works) http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/searchHa...=priceAscending Now if you shop around your town, you can probably find them quite a bit cheaper. Maybe even the Coleman website (use keyword search "air conditioners")? I know I've seen them for $150-$250.

Yes...I've heard from many women that it IS a guy thing. Sigh. Well, I was in a cult longer than I've been married, so I guess it's the lesser of two evils to be married...my hubs would never EVER even consider keeping financial records away from me! LMAO!!!! ;)-->

And where can I click on the financial report that proves this? TYVM.

And just to prove how shady twi is... Do a search on any church denomination to go to their general site. Once there, click around and find their financial information. I did this for the: Nazarene Church and came up with this link http://www.nazarene.org/stewardship.html United Methodist Church and come up with this link http://www.umc.org/frames.asp?url=http%3A//www.gcfa.org Presbyterian Church, USA and came up with this link http://www.pcusa.org/financials/ Clicking around in those pages, I was able to access actual financial reports!!!! Hmmmmmmm! TWI stinks worse and worse every day, imo.

Thank ya dear Thelma Belle Louise! :D-->