CoolWaters

Ah. Now the 'what ifs'. cc, I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that I would not shoot anybody. That is NOT the same as saying I would not take action. How does not shooting suddenly equate to not taking action? Well, then you're not reading Dot's posts. She made racial slurs.

You honestly believe that welfare budgets are because of ethnicity???????????????????? That's just ignorant! (Ignorant means unlearned...I didn't call you stupid.) Where have I attacked Dot? This is the 3rd time I've asked you to specify what I've actually said...and the 3rd time you've played it off as a given without any need to point out what I said. To the cat litter...as a former GSCer used to say.

rascal, maybe I'm not getting what you're saying. I don't view "people" as being intolerant racists...I view the person who made intolerant and racist statements as being intolerant and racist. I said only to Dot "So you practiced White Flight.." because she said that's what she did. She didn't out-and-out call it White Flight. What she did say was: From Wikipedia:

I asked you this once and now I ask you this again: Do you actually read my posts or just fly off when you're told to fly off? WHERE have I ever stated or even intimated that I do not respect another's desire to avoid gang activity or another's desire to draw the line when crime and violence start to creep in???????

And that is how it should have been handled, imo. That is very much like what I've explained many times on this thread how things were/are handled in my neighborhoods. I notice that you didn't mention any use of guns and didn't bring up race. It is easy for me to 'hear' this type of communication and get that what you were doing was protecting your neighborhood. It didn't seem like that was difficult to post, but seemed like you were just telling me what happened. What part of what I have said shocked you?

My experience in your neighborhood was very good, I have to say. But didn't it take a while for me to settle down and want to stay? I felt it did. I had other experiences that weren't so good during that time, though. At no point in time did I even remotely consider that I should have been armed to go into such neighborhoods. Afterwards, though, I realized that there was at least one point I should have ran to the nearest bus station and never looked back. Still, I never once even thought about 'defending' myself with violence. In fact, I was too terrified to even consider that I could defend myself. Look, I said it in my last post to you but maybe not so clearly, so I will say it again here: I didn't bring race into this and I did not refer to race until it was brought into this. I did not coerce anyone to make racial comments. I simply responded to the race issue once it was introduced. Those trying to make me out to be a bigoted, lying, twisted sicko at this point are simply doing the same thing a cat does when it takes a crap...trying to cover its own stench. ********************** WW, do you read my posts or just fly off when you're told to fly off? Being called a good person by someone who would shoot an 8 year old is not something I like too much...with or without meds.

I would take this seriously if you would point out exactly what I'm saying that is wayish. Otherwise, I have to conclude that you're in this for the mud slinging. You say "as soon as these predators moved in to my neck of the wood". How would you know they had moved in? What is your criteria for discerning a 'predator'? How would you who to shoot? If you determined an 8 year old to be a predator, would you shoot the 8 year olds as readily as you shot the adults?

Please tell me you're not saying that perpetrating sex crimes on children is the lesser of evils...???? This fellowship was armed...by the military, btw...because aside from my family, it was a military twig.

For gawd's sake, people!!!! I have said over and over again right here on this thread that I have worked diligently and successfully to REMOVE gangs, wannabe gangs, gang activity, etc. from my neighborhoods. How in the he11 does anybody conclude that I support crime in any way, shape or form????? Good grief. Am I bigoted? Ya know, I probably am. The worst experiences in my life have all been perpetrated by whites. When I go into a middle class white neighborhood these days, I lock my doors and literally shake with fear until I am out of those neighborhoods. rascal can testify to this about me! BUT WHEN WHITES COME TO MY NEIGHBORHOOD, I DON'T RESPOND WITH BEING ARMED, WILLING TO SHOOT TO KILL, AND WANTING TO CALL IN A MILITARY EXTERMINATION TEAM. Lord have mercy!

No, rascal, I was not assigning racial motives to all...just to those who have expressed their motives to be at least in some part racially based. And I know you meant no insult...and I got the line you were drawing for me. I hope I addressed these things to your satisfaction. If not, ask again...and I'll try again. I mean no insult, either...to you or anyone else.

rascal, Of all people in the world I know, I know for certain that there is respect between you and I...and that we both think a lot about one another. And I thank you very much for this! Maybe it's not about race. I wasn't thinking it was until I went to the link posted...where I found comments like this: "Spreading from El Salvador to L.A. and across the United States, Mara Salvatrucha 13 is increasingly well organized and deadly." and, "Mara Salvatrucha 13 (MS-13) is unfortunately becoming everybody’s problem. This plague that came to Long Island from El Salvador by way of the streets of Los Angeles follows the same migratory patterns as the Salvadoran immigrant community that it preys upon, fanning out across the United States from ethnic enclaves in California." Yeah...that got me disjointed. Unfairly? I dunno...most of what I've seen posted here at GSC concerning the problems in this particular poster's life usually boils down to race...and sometimes other things that make people 'undesirable' in some way...like being poor, being gay, being something not acceptable to that person's world...that isn't crime. And the race issue came up again in this person's posts on this very thread. Along with the gay issue. A couple of other non-criminal issues, too. That seemingly innocent mixing up of issues just sux, imo. It reveals to me that a person is NOT looking for a solution, but is really looking for a way to sterilize their world of anything non-WASPy. IMO. And the person has said as much on this thread. I care for this person, so I took the time to try and offer alternatives that have worked in many, many neighborhoods across the country...and that I have personally seen work quite well in my neighborhoods. In return, I got scathing accusations, revealing of private information, called names, etc. Not by this particular person straight up (meaning that it was insinuated, not said straight out), but by those who think they're doing good to defend this person from horrible, horrible me. My gawd, rascal, if people can't deal with the likes of me without breaking down into name calling and other provocative behavior, what do you think they're like in 3D? Can you imagine such behavior in 3D? Especially when interacting with those one openly disdains? I don't have all the answers, thankfully. I don't know all the solutions, thankfully. I do, however, have some answers...and those answers have proven repeatedly to work. And I do, however, have some solutions...and those solutions have proven repeatedly to actually solve the problems instead of provoking worse problems. I learned these things the hard way, too. I grew up in white suburbia with privilege I never knew I had until I lived outside of white suburbia. Part of the attraction to twi for me was the very concept that believing=receiving...that people get what they deserve in life, so if one is getting a bum's rap, one deserves a bum's rap...or to be sick, or poor, or treated like a leper, or whatever. Having gawd on my side while I went around telling people what they needed to fix themselves just made it all the better for me, too...or so I thought until I had to deal with reality and got my a$$ kicked (literally and figuratively) over and over again until it finally dawned on me that maybe what I was doing wasn't working so well. How would I feel if this topic were about pedophiles and the sentiments expressed were directed at pedophiles? I am surprised that you have to ask, rascal. What surprises me is that if you're asking, then somewhere along the line I've expressed that I want to arm myself and shoot to kill and call in a military extermination team to deal with pedophiles. If I have ever stated such a thing, it was outside of my nature and I am ashamed of saying such things. How to deal with pedophiles is one of the answers and one of the solutions that I don't have. I do know that violence is a 'solution' I've chosen in my adult life not more than five times...and none of those times was it against a pedophile...not even the perpetrator who hurt my daughter...and none of those times involved any weapon of any kind. Each and every time I chose violence, I only escalated the situation nearly to the point of no return. Violence begets violence. If both sides are armed and willing to shoot to kill, the line between 'criminal' and 'concerned citizen' gets blurred all too quickly...and the reasons to shoot to kill become more and more about personal prejudices and less and less about 'right' and 'wrong'. In the beginning, it sounds all nice and upright to want to kill those who are willing to kill. But wait a minute...if the 'good guys' are willing to kill, then who is going to shoot to kill them? The 'bad guys'? Then are more 'good guys' going to come along to shoot to kill those 'bad guys'? And then who is going to come along to shoot to kill those who shot to kill those who shot to kill those who shot to kill? "Ah," one might say, "I know where to draw the line." Nobody has yet to answer me about just where is that line drawn. And as far as Dot taking proactive action, she's not. All she's doing is complaining. Not once has she even considered organizing a group of off-duty cops to clean up the tag graffiti. That's a very telling thing, imo.

What I hate, Rick, is people who complain about everybody else's crap stinking while saying they themselves don't crap at all. Big, HUGE difference between hating white people and hating that mentality...which, in my life's experience, is uniquely white. Yes, I'm white...partly. I'm more a mutt. Like my daughter, my son, my granddaughter, my husband and probably more people than want to admit it.

Oh lawd...if I can't be cawed and bullied by saying you don't trust or respect me, call me a liar. What did I lie about? That you've never expressed that you want the Navy Seals to explode in upon a twig meeting and shoot to kill the twig leader because he's a pedophile? Well, you haven't. It's too easy to let things break down into a battle. It's the ease of the lazy...criminal or otherwise.

Jonny, I was not accusing you. I wasn't even referring to that actual time period. I said, "I sure didn't hear this sentiment out of you concerning Rich U. and those who protected/protect him..." Referring to things you have said on these treads. That's all. MY POINT was what I said, "Jonny, at what point do you draw the line?" And that's STILL my point. What do you think makes a person turn to gangs? The reality of things is that one cannot separate the cause from the effect. Pedophilia is such an insidious crime that some statistics say 1 out of every 2 homes in America must deal with this problem. But that's not the only thing that can lead a person to gangs. Do you know what gang members have said led them to gangs? Again I ask you: At what point do you draw the line? As for you respecting me or not... I never assumed you did in the first place. I have learned that if someone actually respects me in the first place, then it's not so easily lost.

So you pulled White Flight and it didn't work. ::shrug:: It never does. Dot, there is no way on God's green earth that you can seriously say that when you went WOW you were offering people anything more than another con that they saw right through. Well, you can say it, but if you believe it, then that explains a whole lot about why they ripped you off. "Here you pathetic ragamuffin devil spirit in the form of a criminal, I've got ALL THE ANSWERS TO FIX YOU! Just drink this koolaid-like drink and follow the yellow brick road I'm gonna take you down...Glawry!" "Sure, sis, anything you say. Just make sure you show me the layout of your house because while you're being holier than me and drinking poisoned koolaid-like drinks, I'm gonna show you what the real world is like." Lessee...you were in a cult, they were in a gang....you were pushing mind/soul/spirit poison, they were pushing to get your belongings away from you... Don't you think that people KNOW when you're condescending, arrogant and holier-than-thou towards them? In the end, you've got a choice: become a gang unto yourself or learn a better way. If you choose the former, don't beetch when they come for you. (This is referring to a Martin Niemoller quote.)

Jonny, at what point do you draw the line? Are you gonna go after the 'upstanding pillar of the community' who rapes the neighborhood kids? I sure didn't hear this sentiment out of you concerning Rich U. and those who protected/protect him...

rhino, It's hard, no doubt. We still live in a pretty active 'gang' type area...nothing quite as bad as Topeka, though. But you know what was harder for me? Living in white suburbia where there was no crime on the streets...it was all kept inside the homes, behind closed doors, secret and deadly.

The neighborhood we lived in in Topeka was the worst in town when we first moved in. The widows who lived on our block had nailed shut all their windows and all doors except one that was used for coming and going. They would not come out of their homes after dark. Nor would they participate in neighborhood activities of any kind. When we moved to Topeka in '93, we were pulling up to our rented house at the same time that employees at the Federal Courthouse had been taken hostage. That evening, there were 4 arson fires on our block alone. When we finally bought a home, it took only 2 days to realize that we were living in what we called, "Little Beirut". '94 was the year of the murders in Topeka...an average of more than 8 per month...in a town of 130,000. Per capita, Topeka ranked one of the highest cities for crime in the nation. And we lived right smack dab in the middle of it all. 3 blocks from the hospital and between the busiest north/south route in Topeka, sirens were going 24/7. Police helicopters circled most of the night looking for criminals. Neighbors had shootouts with each other and with the cops...the neighbors having semi-automatic military type weapons...the tracers going up and down Washburn Ave were pretty...if you didn't know what they were. The house we had in Topeka still has several .45 rounds in the front of it...and many more .38 and .22 rounds in other walls. Not once did we own a gun. We worked closely with the PD, the city council and the neighbors. Our neighborhood hosted a gang summit. We worked diligently to make the gangs unnecessary by meeting the physical, emotional, economical, and other needs of living life. It's a long and detailed story that spanned 7 years before we won back our neighborhood completely. It would be hard to put it all here in a post. I will say, though, that it took only about a year before the widows started coming out at night again and not only participating in neighborhood activities but hosting many at their own homes. The most important step (after the violence has been settled down) you said in your post: "Once you know them I'd guess you are accepted and not a threat."

Oooo La La! The place looks pro fesh ee null! :) Awesome job {{{{{all you who worked so hard}}}}}!

M13 spreads from El Salvador to LA...????? My next door neighbors are straight from El Salvador. They bought the house next door the same week we bought our house. They are tree men...which means they do tree trimming, tree removal, tree doctoring and all things tree. They did over $5000.00 worth of tree work for us at no charge just to be neighborly. We didn't even ask...and didn't know it was being done until we got home after an out of town trip and it was all done. I know they have guns, too. When the American and white crack heads come down to our little paradise and want to turn tricks and blow crack and steal, our neighbors cap a few rounds in the dirt and chase them off. I also know they run in big groups of 10 or more. In fact, sometimes there are 30 or more. And they're all carrying sharpened sticks and black 33 gallon garbage bags and spray paint cans. Oh, did I forget to say that these gang-like groups of El Salvadorans are cleaning up the neighborhood with those black sticks and garbage bags? In fact, I would have to credit those gang-like El Salvadorans with getting rid of the real crime in our little neck of the woods. We help them, too. Maybe I'm an M13 and don't know it...????????

Although I do try to live in the real world most of the time...hehehe, wink, wink...I am still amazed when I hear that people had no etiquette training when growing up. Not because I judge, but because it was such a big deal in my life not only at home, but at school, church and all social functions. What I didn't get at home, I got in Brownies/Girl Scouts, Caravans (my church's equivalent to Girl Scouts), 4 years of Home Ec., and from friends who were shamed, just shamed, if someone's etiquette lacked (yep...snotty teen girls). Yes, the point of etiquette is to feel comfortable and to make others feel comfortable. It's not to be better than, or to prove anything. Too often in twi, that's what happened, though. I do know one point of etiquette in which twi failed miserably: graciousness towards others, and especially those perceived to be 'different'. ANY etiquette teacher would be appalled at the way twi trashed the poor, the sick, the afflicted, the different. I never took Dorothy's etiquette classes, but I have to wonder if she ever touched on this form of etiquette?

4:30 this morning was like getting up in the bush in Alaska...cold, dark and running for the stove to get warm after coming out from under three comforters on the bed. Somebody had turned down the stove!!!!! (We don't use conventional central heat in our house...we use an old fashioned gas stove...one of those sitting in the middle of the room and can cook on the top type of things.) Glad we didn't have to go out to the woodpile or outhouse! Our street was nicely sanded, though. :) I wish we'd get that big snowflake snow. These little things aren't as fluffy and are not as good to eat. When we lived in Alaska we learned how to make snow shakes...a big cup of fresh snow, packed pretty good into the cup, add chocolate syrup and milk. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Just got a whole bunch of sleet that glazed the streets pretty well. Our neighbor just tried to get off our block...wasn't successful. Well, along about 10pm those street crews will be down here turning around and/or resting a spell. :) Guess I could take them some hot cocoa...? In the meantime, I'm crocheting, reading/posting here, watching an odd movie, and staying warm with my hot cocoa. :) I LOVE winter!

I guess I've lived too many years on the wrong side of the tracks to comprehend this thread and the responses.

I think this needs repeating...often. God takes care of us. He is personal. He never promised to prevent trouble, but to stay with us and give us peace and guidance through trouble. To label this as 'personal prophecy' is kinda weird...ya know? Why does one need 'prophecy' when one has holy spirit and His constant, permanent presence? What we have with the Father is called a walk...we are upon a path...one on which He has lit our feet... If one is walking along a path in a public park and one sees a sign that says, "Bridge out ahead", is that personal prophecy? No! It's simply information that can be helpful, it's there for all to see, it's simple guidance. So God puts up guideposts and we need to put a name on them other than what they are? IMO, that's how we get lost in dogma and trip over karma.