CoolWaters

Mike...just had to say that Angel (the main character in the vampire series by the same name) has red drapes at his windows... :D

Approval Addiction is a book by Joyce Meyer. The Disease to Please is a book by Dr. Harriet B. Braiker. Several days ago I was flipping through the TV channels and stopped at Joyce Meyer...which is something I NEVER do because listening to her reminds me of going to twig...but that day I got interested in her topic: Approval Addiction. It was like lifting a veil from my eyes. But I was leery of it...after all, it was coming from the mouth of a woman I don't really trust...so I did a web search... And came up with over 23,000 results on "Approval Addiction" and over 5,000 results on "The Disease to Please". The whole concept is changing my life for the better...in ways I would have never thought...and in areas I have struggled with all of my life.

Frickin' pieces of crap these electronic doo-dads. Ya know? Why the hell does life have to up and change just when I got used to things the way the were? That's what I'd really like to know, ya know? I mean, seriously, crap can't just keep happening and the universe expect me to stay sane. Frick the universe, I'm going insane for awhile. Yep...I'm ranting...but I'm not making fun...because the above rant goes through my mind several times a week...and I just get good and p*ssed off. Then I feel better. I always tell my kids and hubs that it's better to be p*ssed off than p*ssed on...and if you get good and p*ssed off about getting p*ssed on...well, at least that shows you're no victim. I think. ;) OK, Hopefull, I'm trying to get you to laugh. If it's not working, I'm sorry...because laughter really is the best medicine...since nothing else works. :D {{{{{Hopefull}}}}}

Here's the thing... He left her during a mid-life crisis, evidently got over it, and now expects it all to be OK. Typical no-balls-for-reality guy. I voted she should move on. She's happening, he happened.

For me, it's a simple answer that was beyond even conceiving...but when it first happened, it became THE MOST SASTIFYING... Being a part of and watching the whole thing while we all grow up and out of those places we've been...and forward and onward to the places we are going... Where we were before twi... Where we were while in twi... Where we were when leaving twi... Where we were way back in the day of trancechat... Where we are now... Where we are going... It's just SO SATISFYING to participate and watch it all happen. :D Kewl thread. :D

Well...yes...I knew that... :D ...so I guess I didn't make myself very clear...maybe my question should be... What does separation from God mean?

Too kewl! I just archived my PMs and got an email with them in html form. I like!!!!! :D

OK, this seems quite simple. But something just hit me the other day and now I'm cornfoosed. If Adam and Eve were separated from God because of their sin in the garden, then who is talking with Cain in Genesis 4?

{{{{{ExC}}}}} This aging crap sucks, doesn't it? At least coming here where others have many of the same or similar problems provides emotional relief. I have no suggestion for what you 'should' or 'should not' do concerning the meds...because I'm not your doctor. I do, however, have a suggestion for something to think about while wading through this health stuff... Remember the 'mindset' twi taught to us concerning health issues. Remember that so many of us are in this health situation because of the crapoloa twi taught to us concerning 'believing' to the point of ignoring sound medical advice. IMO, any suggestion of taking medicine, having surgery, doing something besides 'believing' triggers an automatic fear reaction. Just something to think about...to possibly help you sort through what you're feeling.

For me, this discussion has not been about anybody being 'sleazy', but has been about the wisdom, or lack of wisdom, with which children are approached.If one were driving one's car down a neighborhood street and stopped to invite children to, let's say, the matinee showing of Polar Express, how would one be viewed? The movie is good and could quite possibly introduce the children to values they may never have instilled in their lives otherwise. The vehicle may be a pink Caddy with Mary Kay identification all over it. The driver may be up for sainthood. The driver may even be carrying a permission slip for the parent(s) to sign after the child has accepted the invitation. Would the scenario presented by Morgan be acceptable in any other situation besides that of being a church bus? If so, why bother to teach children about strangers in the first place? Nobody has even remotely suggested that these groups be pulled out of the communities. My very first volunteer position that was working with children was teaching Sunday School. I was not a member of the church. I did not attend the church. The position was advertised in the local newspaper because the church felt that they would try bringing in outside volunteers for the children's services so that their members could attend adult services. The church did a background check on me. I was not fingerprinted, but that was in 1976. The church found out about my involvement with twi. I was questioned extensively about the views of twi towards children...as was my limb leader's wife who ran the limb's children's programs. Because of doctrinal issues, I was given a specific set parameters within which I must stay when teaching the children...and I was not allowed to introduce the wooden spoon in any way, shape or form. In 1979 both my husband and I began volunteering in shelters and soup kitchens. Extensive background checks were done. Not until 1990 was fingerprinting introduced as part of the background check. Since 1990, when I first became a tutor for the Upward Bound program, whenever I have volunteered to work with children, I was fingerprinted as well. Never has it bothered me. Why? Because if it were my children involved in these programs, I would be very happy to know such precautions had been taken. No more than it bothers me to obey reduced speed limits in school zones does it bother me to subject myself to 'layers of regulations and distrust' from the community. IMO, any volunteer 'run off by layers of regulations and the distrust they feel from the community' is not honest.

Oh fer gawd's sake. You're making a point by leaving out obvious information...like the difference between no adult supervision and no adult present in their lives at all...which would make them orphans...which would then require the Boys and Girls Club to report the situation to the state...which would mean that, all of a sudden, there's an adult present...unless, of course, you can personally exemplify a situation where you found orphans living in a project building and personally brought them to programs you volunteered at and had nobody question you and monitored yourself...and it goes on and on my friend, some people started it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue saying it just because it's the argument that never ends, yes it goes on and on... It's 2006...people have awakened and smelled the wisdom.

An interesting link concerning Fresh Air Fund... http://www.vachss.com/guest_dispatches/excerpt_battle_3.html

Just spoke with the directors of the Children's programs at both the YMCA and the Boys and Girls Clubs of Greater Kansas City. In both organizations all people involved with children at any level have extensive background checks done, are finger-printed, and are monitored. Also in both organizations, there is no such thing as going into neighborhoods willy-nilly, parents must be involved beforehand, and schools are involved. These organizations are heavily monitored and must meet staunch requirements before even working with children, much less getting any funding to do the work. As for the Fresh Air Fund, the toll free number is 800.367.0003. The staff is not in today and I was asked to call back tomorrow.

The schools get away with this stuff??????? Do they receive government (fed) monies? I'd seriously look into this on a funding level if not a legal level...because there is money in the funding to pay for background checks...unless size or some other loophole lets them off the hook. I'm just shocked. Churches and cost doesn't fly with me...'cause churches can obtain funding as well...no strings attached funding...from sources other than the government...and all it takes is someone computer literate to do a web search for the sources...and a willingness on the church's part to actually be concerned enough to protect themselves legally...if not concerned enough to protect the children. Reactive logic v proactive logic... As long as nothing happened, then nothing should be expected to happen... 'Cause it's a good thing... Unless something happens...

Just FYI... ANY organization...church, school, social agency, whatever...are usually REQUIRED to get background checks on people working with children...even volunteers. If none are done, it is not wise to allow children to be involved.

1.What time is it: 4:30pm 2.Name: Vicky 3.Nickname: CoolWaters 4.Piercings: Ears 5.Recent Movie you've seen: Crash, Hellboy, Monster-In-Law, Bewitched, Batman Begins 6.Eye color: brown 7.Place of birth: Kansas 8.Favorite food: my own cooking 9.Ever been toilet papering? yes 10.Love someone so much it made you cry? yes ever hate sumone so much it made you cry? yes 11.Been in a car accident: Ummm...OK...accident...yeah...that's the ticket... 12.Favorite day of the week: Sunday 13.Favorite restaurants: Cis's, Downtowner 14.Favorite Flower: Rose and Tulip 15.Favorite sport to watch: baseball 16.Favorite Drink: non liquour: water liquour: Tequila 17.Favorite ice cream: Anything from Russell Stover's 18.Disney or Warner Brothers: Warner Brothers 19.Favorite fast food restaurant: all street vendors 20.What color is your bedroom carpet: Although thick as carpet, it's just dust. ;) 21.How many times you failed your driver's test? 1 22.Winter, summer, spring or fall: Spring and Fall 23.Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: Home Depot 24.What do you like to do when you are most bored: Talk on the phone 25.Bedtime: When I'm exhausted. 26.Favorite TV shows: The ones I have scheduled for recording: Commander in Chief, Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, American Idol, Ghost Whisperer, Medium, House, Bones, Angel, Divine Design, Wifeswap, Trading Spouses, Trading Spaces, Dr. G ME. 27.Last person you went to dinner with: Bill 28.Ford or Chevy: Chevy 29.What are you listening to right now? Silence! 30.How many tattoos do you have: none 31.How many pets do you own: dog, cat, rabbits (wild), 'possum (wild) 32.Which came first the chicken or the chicken egg? Ugh.

No, Linda, that's not what I meant...and I don't think you or anybody else who regularly participates here thinks that's I meant that...BUT...there are many others who read this board who wouldn't know otherwise since I wasn't clear. As for the whole bus thing... IF I know the names, addresses and positions of the people participating... IF I've spoken with the pastor and have been assured that ALL participants working with children have had background checks... IF I'm comfortable with the program after I've done all to protect my children... Then great! It's a wonderful thing to have available.

So put my kids on a bus with a bunch of people I've never met, have no clue as to their names or anything, but because it's a church thing, then just dump my wisdom out the window and be excited? Been there, done that...learned my lesson. Freaks me out that others didn't learn theirs.

The correct way for a church to handle a bus ministry is to FIRST do 'knock and talks' throughout the neighborhoods where the bus will be passing through on Sunday. This way the parents KNOW what's coming and can EXPECT a bus to pull up out front. If a church is not doing this FIRST, then call the cops IMMEDIATELY. After the whole twi experience with children's fellowship being nothing but a front for a pedophile ring...and after reading here just how that happened... Well, it's just plain stupid to justify such activity.

Kids have dads because dads cherish moms. Kiwi has decidedly better duties curing mania.

un·wor·thy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-wûrth) adj. un·wor·thi·er, un·wor·thi·est Insufficient in worth; undeserving: a bad plan unworthy of our consideration. Lacking value or merit; worthless. Not suiting or befitting: “The acquaintances she had already formed were unworthy of her” (Jane Austen). Vile; despicable. People are not unworthy. Sin is unworthy. If the two cannot be separated in one's mind, then one will never be able to relate to another in the manner exemplified by Jesus.

Something like this has been going through my head too, dear {{{{{ExC}}}}}. And you know me...I'll think and think and think about something...and keep on thinking and talking and listening until I find something that makes sense out of the whole thing. Ya know? Well, what is the unworthy stuff about anyway? It seems to be a no-brainer...but that's the problem, isn't...no brains in the whole concept as it is typically perceived. I dunno 'the answer' about it all, but here are some thoughts coming out of my cognitive state...(and I won't be offended one bit if you really aren't interested...in fact, I get that! lol)... A child brings something to his/her parents and says, "See what I made/did/can do!" The child is expecting acceptance, approval, praise and love. The child wants to make his/her parents proud of him/her. The child is not really thinking about his/her parents, but him/herself. Well, I think that too often this is how people approach God. But sooner or later a child grows up...hopefully. What he/she does for or gives to his/her parents is done out of love for the parents, not out of needing to fulfill him/herself in some way. When this now grown child looks at his/her parents, he/she sees and understands all the parents have done for him/her and, although greatly appreciative, knows that the parents do not expect anything in return, any repayment, and certainly do not expect a lifetime of groveling at their feet feeling unworthy of what the did for him/her. The happiest moment for a parent is when a child takes all that has been done for him/her and goes on to live well, be well, do well, and treat others well. A parent never wants a child to grow up to be forever feeling a heavy burden to 'live up to' or repay in any way what was given while being raised. (OK, a vast majority of parents these days do seem to want this, but that's just selfish and poor parenting, imo. But for the sake of discussion, let's pretend that parents are decent. ;) ) Anyway, I've been thinking that perhaps God is like this...that perhaps God gets really sick and tired of our neediness and self-loathing and all the stuff that we make of ourselves when all we seek in life is approval, acceptance and praise. I think at some point God expects us to grow up and live life well, think of ourselves in a good light, realize that we are capable and competent and that what we do can be done only by ourself, and if the world was without us, the world would be missing a piece of the big picture. Nobody can ever be 'worthy' of what a parent does for a child to raise him/her safely to adulthood. Nobody can ever be 'worthy' of what God has done and does do for us. I think that the whole premise of the question of 'unworthy' is false and leads down a slippery slope of sorrow, dashed hopes and expectations, and a whole lot of nastiness that is just not necessary! It's just a stupid question at its root. IMO OK, off rant now. Luv ya.

{{{{{Everybody}}}}} I've been sitting back 'listening' to the posts...thinking about them...letting them grow in my mind. What has come of this is something I certainly did not expect...but something I certainly needed. Don't really have the words to explain right now...just enjoying the input. Thank you all very much.

Standing with twi I could deny my sins by claiming false 'sonship rights'. Standing before God my sins are painfully obvious. Standing with twi my sins were justified. Standing before God my sins are inexcusable. Standing with twi my sins became a tool to use at my leisure because I couldn't 'offend a dead man'. Standing before God my sins are so heavy that an innocent man had to die. Standing with twi fear was "false evidence appearing real". Standing before God I know the evidence against me is real. Standing with twi the forgiveness I wanted was mine as long as I used the magic words "in the name of Jesus Christ". Standing before God I know the vanity and the shame of taking such a precious name for my own gain. Standing with twi the Work of the Cross was shameful to me because forgiveness was my inherited right. Standing before God I am unworthy of the Work of the Cross. Standing with twi I could flaunt myself before God. Standing before God I know I would die if not for Jesus standing in front of me still shedding His blood over me. ©2006vlnicholson

OK...we've got a great discussion going! :) It's kinda like the chicken and the egg thing: which came first, the works of the flesh or the devil? Of course it seems pretty obvious that, biblically speaking, the devil came first and caused the works of the flesh. So what's my point? Well, the bible also speaks of 'the spirit of man'... So, in the bible, we have at least 3 different types of 'spirit' in play: holy spirit; evil sprit; man's spirit (and I say "at least 3" because there are obscure references to animal spirit and plant life spirit). How do these things interact? What influences what? What cannot be influenced? Can Man dump all responsibility of 'evil' onto 'the Devil'? Just exactly how many 'devil spirits' are at work at one time? Where's holy spirit when ya need it? As already pointed out, the pneumatology of twi is wrong...and, specifically, imo, twi demonology is wrong. How do we get beyond twi-think? The churches don't have much to offer beyond what twi offers. How does one learn about these things?