CoolWaters

Was in Live Chat last nite. It sucked big time for me! Java kept telling me I didn't have the new version (but the java homepage said I was all up-to-date..which was the truth because I uninstalled/installed everything twice...rebooted at least 4 times), I couldn't get all the sounds to play, I didn't have all the neat little bells and whistles others seemed to have. It was lots faster, though. But I'm not so much into speed as I am into bells, whistles, decorating etc. :)

T-bone...very interesting. If you could find something on that I'd like to see it. :) Mark...you have some patience! :) Thank you for the links to the Catechism sections. My granddaughter is very into Catholicism and she just recently was baptized (she's 11yo). I've been reading, watching TV and looking on the internet for any information that will help me relate to her. What I've found is that I'm more Catholic than I realized. :) Allan...outside of twi the 'devil' isn't so powerful or important. :)

And to get an even better picture of what is going on in the world today and why it really cannot be stopped... How many generations has mankind been around? Multiply that out with the statistics provided and the formula used. There's no stopping it. There's only protection of our children if we can.

OK...I'm breathing better now...can talk some more... Yeah...many of us identify. Which is why I posted it...not to complain or draw attention to myself...but to talk about what it's done to me...to maybe help others understand themselves...and maybe help people who have never been in such situations to understand how permanent the damage is...and understand how people can and do get trapped in situations that seem to have an obvious 'cure'. And each one who is a mother brings that into her ability to be a mother. If she hasn't overcome the petrifying guilt, shame and fear at least a little bit, then she is petrified as a mother...she can't help her children...she won't let anybody else close enough to help her or her children. Gawd and the inner rage over it all!!! But we don't know how to express that rage in a healthy manner. How could we? We were never allowed to even talk about what happened, much less allowed the luxury to be mad about it. How could we suddenly turn 18 and know how to express it in a healthy manner? So we turn that rage on one another. Woman against woman. And then the perps have the exact scenario they need to go on without fear of being stopped. IMO.

Funny you bring this up. Me and hubs were talking about this just yesterday. Neither one of us recall any other church experience where standing and clapping when 'leadership' walked into a room was either expected or even normal. Now on the other hand, in the corporate world it's done all the time. Interesting!

I've chickened out on posting what I've written on this thread sooooooooo many times. It's very scary. For me...I learned too young that giving in gets along...speaking up gets trouble...bad trouble...dangerous trouble. Kathy, rascal, bowtwi...all of you who are speaking up...you do it so well and so boldly! I can't hardly get a whole sentence out. I think "why bother?". It costs sooooooo much to say anything. 'Damaged goods'. Yeah, I'm damaged. When it comes to sex, I barely function 'normally'. Either I go totally overboard or totally into abstinence. Sure it drives my husband insane. I don't care. He has been no saint to me sexually. And protecting my daughter? I failed miserably. I let 'ministers' talk me into thinking I was crazy...talk me into believing that I had devil spirits whispering lies in my ears about 'the body of believers'. My husband echoing the 'advice'. So I shut up my inner voice in favor of 'thinking no evil'. In this I am ashamed beyond comprehension. I was able to protect my son, though. After turning in 'leadership' to the authorities, I felt so free that even the slightest hint of something untoward with my son and I was on the phone to the cops. I have given into giving up any hope of ever having a normal life of my own, though. How can I ever have normalcy? I've been having sex since I was 4yo. It's never been sex that I actually wanted...because I never thought about what did I want...just what did I have to do to get along. Did I ever enjoy sex? I really don't know. The body is made to work a certain way. If the body responds and gets turned on, that could be called enjoyment I guess. For me, though, it's more like addiction. But I've never had sex I didn't feel required to have...for one reason or another. I'm not talking rape...not talking forced...which was what happened from age 4 to age 12...and 3 times after that. I'm talking letting myself be used sexually because I could see no other choice if I were to get along in life. Do I use sex to get what I want? I used to. All the time. But I thought marriage would cure that. It did. Now I give in to sex because I don't want to fight or pay some other way for not giving in. It's become either I give it up or somebody else will...or all hell will break lose if the urge is allowed to go unfulfilled for too long. Sure everybody wants me to get out of such a situation. That'd be nice. But the problem here is in my head. I'd just repeat the behavior over and over again. Because I don't know any other way. I've thought about becoming a nun. But would that really stop my behavior? I seriously doubt it. Because my behavior stems from feeling as though the only thing I have to offer that anybody really wants is sex. Gonna post this now because I'm beginning to chicken out.

Hey! How'd this discussion keep going and me not know about it????? Oh...I see...somewhere along the line I turned off notifications of replies to this topic. Sheesh! Sometimes I'm such a dunce. :D Anyway... The whole concept of genetic makeup...and what triggers one person's makeup one way and another person's another way...is very interesting in this discussion. Because imo although 'the devil' may not actually be present, he/she/it had to have made the initial mark, the initial blot on the perfect. Ya know? I do believe that spirit teaches mind. I believed that long before twi. What I don't believe is that an active spirit has to be present to perpetuate the teaching. In other words, if my great-great-great grandmother was an alcoholic then it is more than likely that alcoholism will be passed onto me. Why? Because not only the genetic predisposition is there, but the habit patterns of alcoholism are there...and both are passed on from generation to generation...in the physical realm. The demonic influence did its job in Great-great-great Grandma. The rest was just passing it all on. Does that make sense?

{{{{{Ron}}}}} I love bad boys! :D Open discussion is the best thing there is...especially when it comes to things one might be blind to. Ya know? My very first reaction to these folks was 'sounds like a new cult to me'. I even emailed the pastor and said as much! My reaction was based mainly upon knowing that most of what their website said about them came right from the United Methodist Church...and I was suspicious of rhetoric that encouraged people to break away from the 'norm' of church. Isn't that exactly what was so attractive about twi? Well, it was for me. It was several weeks before I even considered giving this church another look. Then I listened to some of the sermons and sharings...and started an email relationship with pastor. Once I attended the church and learned even more of their heart, well, I was excited. So you're right... When something jumps out at you like that, bring it up and talk about it! It's the only way to check out the reality of the situation. IMO. Thanks! And PS: If you feel the need to do so again, please do! I have a tendency to allow myself to be blind if I'm excited about something. :)

I think you're onto something here, Mo. TWI went to great extremes (from what I knew/understood) to take care of Sharon while Rich was in prison. From what you've told me concerning your enforced relationship with her...well, then the concept of a caretaker for her makes more sense than anything else. And the question of why she was accepted into the corps program begs the question of why twi took on the responsibility of her caretaking...which is something that was certainly outside of twi's known behavior patterns. Was there a lawsuit threat? Hmmmm! THIS is the sad truth of twi...that something so horrendous, so unimaginable, so outside the realm of sanity was 'just one more brush fire in the over all picture' of twi.

Dove! You're looking waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day through some very rosey glasses! LOL But I guess that is one of the benefits of being our ages. Tee hee.

Dove, Objectively...yes...it was all there to see right from the beginning. But what teenager or what 20-something ever sees anything objectively? And the ONLY time twi is ever objective about anything is when twi is defending its manipulations of the subjective.

Belle said: Jardinero said: Gawd you've hit that nail squarely on the head!!!! And Belle sums it up with: I can't even begin to put into words how being in twi changed me from a human being into bag of bones rattling around in a quagmire of absolute insanity. You two...and everybody else...are giving me the words I've never been able to find. Thank you!

Dear dear Dove, I wish you had bolded this part of my post: I've been thinking all night about what made me so 'bright' at 16 to see what was being demanded if one went corpse. Finally figured out that it was my rebelliousness...not any wisdom or understanding of what was being presented. I saw how going corpse turned decent people into mean, cowardly little automatons. I rebelled and said, "Not me!" (Little did I realize that staying around for all those years was going to do the same thing to me...only slowly and much more insidiously.) Had anybody who had graduated from corpse been even a little bit nice to me...well...I would have fallen for going corpse, too. Because what twi was putting out in front about corpse was very attractive...and very, very misleading. I didn't see through twi's BS. I just didn't want to spend a lifetime with mean, cowardly little automatons.

Welcome, kierkegaard! Thank you for this post. It makes me cry because I raised my daughter in twi...and she says nearly the same things. In fact, until a couple of weeks ago she never knew that I'd sacrifice my own life for hers. I'm so sad to have raised a child in such an emotional environment. So sad to have ever made any child feel worthless and confused like this.

Wow! Thanks for bringing up that article Allan...and for posting the link OM...and for assistance in digesting it diazbro. It explains a whole lot that I never quite grasped but felt in my heart. Ya know? Allan...to post a link go to the bar across the top of the area where you type your repiles. There is a picture of a globe with a link (looks like a sideways 8). Click on that. A new window will open that asks for the url of the link. Put the url in there...and make sure you include the whole thing with www and everything. Click OK and then you will be provided a space to type in some description or something that tells people that it's a link and to what. Click OK and the all the code will appear in your reply. Or you could just type the whole url in your reply and it automatically becomes a link. Use "Preview Post" to make sure you've done it right and/or the code translates correctly.

I've never been accused of being too bright concerning twi's bait and switch techniques. Fell for nearly every single one of them. However there is one I saw coming even at 16yo... And that is the one that had a few little qualifying clauses that left the definition of 'Lifetime' and 'Christian Service' up to twi. Something in me told me that twi was going to expect complete, willfully blinded loyalty and servitude if one went corpse. Don't know what that something was exactly, but I do know how people went into corpse as free-thinking, God-loving servants with hearts of gold...and came out of corpse as arrogant, argumentative, anal Pharisees. Saw it in every single person I ever knew before and after corpse. Still see it in people I still know. That kind of change doesn't happen because of true Christian Service.

Belle, I'm sorry your thread took this turn, but I don't think it's really off topic because seeing the thought processes in their own words shows how easily the transition from hard-heartedness to criminal intent was made. IMO.

From http://medicolegal.tripod.com/definitions.htm#intent OM, I do attach intent to what twi did concerning RU. Why? Because my daughter was victimized (not by RU, but by one of RU's 'students') and, therefore, I was forced into the behind-the-scenes dealings. I experienced first-hand the intent of what twi was doing. I'm going to say this boldly: TWI knowingly put a pedophile in charge of children's fellowships and then took whatever legal/semi-legal actions they could find to stop any prosecution from happening to the pedophile when caught. These actions included, but were not limited to, sending 'reports' to the DA about the 'bad character' twi felt was exhibitied all along by the parents of the victims. TWI was so gung-ho about preventing the pedophile from being prosecuted and, therefore, gung-ho about not protecting children, that twi moved the pedophile around to keep the authorities from catching up with him. This kind of organized activity to protect criminals and prevent prosecution is exactly what the RICO Act was designed to target. Too bad 'freedom of religion' is equal to 'criminals run amuk' in this country. Anyway, I have no first-hand experience of what happens in the RC to state one way or another if the RC had/has intent. Do you?

I voted Flash Chat because between the two options available now, I prefer the Flash Chat. Being able to decorate in my taste, choose icons, easily join/start different rooms, and other fun stuff makes the chat experience addictive to me. LOL I didn't see that many options in the Live Chat. What about IRC?

Thank you T-bone! A poll is useless if nobody responds. :) Well, Shell, of course you need to pick 3 of them. So maybe pick one and explain the rest?

Thanks Linda! Ron! You being bad boy! That 'quote' was taken so out of context (literally...you actually left out the context) that I couldn't find where you may have gotten it from. Part of this church's outreach ministries is Neighbor 2 Neighbor whose outreach mission statement is, "Our Outreach Mission: Neighbor to Neighbor is devoted to empowering homeless and near homeless persons toward recovery through initiatives that offer basic support and promote human dignity." Human dignity clearly does not imply parasitic living off of others.

Galen...if that had been all there was to it, I'd probably still be around. Sigh. TheHighWay...you're onto something there...and I'm thinking about what you've said and some other stuff that has come up lately. GSG...yeah, I knew some of us would find more than one choice to be apropos, but I also figured the poll was lengthy enough without adding 3 or 4 more questions with 20 options each. :D Mark...insidious is the word! Every single day my hubs and I catch ourselves in one or another of the twi thinking patterns. Sigh. likeaneagle...I show that I was mostly a vpw era twit in my options...but I hoped that folks would substitute whatever class/structure they experienced and then explain. :) I chose 'average pfal grad/feel it was a waste of time and money' because the whole twi experience made me, my hubs and my children into people we are not...and it has taken lo these many years to cauterize the bleeding...and it's going to take many more years to heal.

Mo! You've said this a million times and I'm just now getting it! I've always heard, 'since he hurt little boys, he was a homosexual'. What you're saying is that not only did he hurt little boys, he also hurt men. (I say he hurt men because he was first and foremost a rapist.) Sheesh what a dunce I've been! NOW I see your point about how long it took lcm to 'smoke out the homos'. The character aspect of twi's 'homo purges' always presented a dichotomy in thinking (can anybody say 'double-minded'?) that 'allowed' predators such as RU to run twigs, branches and children's fellowships (RU was doing all 3 when I was there) while good, innocent people's lives were ruined all in the 'holy' name of twi. And twi sold it all as 'god's word' to the 'elite'. Well. If by 'elite' twi meant 'a private club of leaders that knowingly protected predators and eschewed the evil victims', well, then, twi was certainly the 'elite'. And if by 'god's word' twi meant 'whatever any maniacal, unmedicated leader in full-blown psychotic/neurotic/schizo/whatever episodes tells you is god's word', well, then, twi was certainly promoting 'god's word'. Frankly I think that what twi really meant was, 'You're either for us or against us. If you're against us, we'll do whatever it takes to discredit you, smear your name, ruin your family life, cost you your job, and leave you more broken than you could ever imagine.' Oh...yeah... Isn't that what these letters are implying? If not out-and-out stating? It still blows my mind that anybody could possibly think for one minute that what twi taught, what twi stood for, what twi has done to this world was ever godly or profitable or worth the price of what twi did to the most innocent, the most helpless of all by protecting pedophiles from being prosecuted or even trying to keep pedophiles away from children.

Speaking for what I know of the situation and of templelady...yeah, outofdafog, you got it right. I don't think templelady was implying lcm to be pedophile...but did get her strongly implying lcm to be a closet queen... edited to add... I agree that homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing.

My hubs LOVED it!!!! He doesn't particularly care for the message boards (ctws and csws...makes him feel intimidated trying to keep up lol), but he LOVED listening to the interview. LOVED the music, too. He's still commenting on both! I really enjoyed hearing the story instead of just reading about it...because there's so much said in the pauses, the tone of voices, the inflections, etc...so much that isn't communicated in writing. And you both have GREAT radio personalities!!!! (Yep...I'd have to agree...Prairie Home Companion quality/feel.) GIMME MORE!!!!