CoolWaters

OE...I wuv you. TYVM. Sigh.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A RIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! rascal, girl, you have the BEST story-telling voice and attitude and ways about you!!!! Shell...even without being told I woulda known that was YOU egging rascal on and yucking it up!!!!! I LOVE THIS STUFF!!!! GIMME MORE!!!!!!!!!

Well, Dot, obviously 'this kind of thing' is not specific to anything except men...all over the world. LOL OK you men, I KNOW women do this too. I just had to bring some GSC chat room sentiment into this discussion. Carry on.

Um...I wanted to edit my last post here because I addressed it to Mark instead of Galen...but I can't edit it. Anyway...Mark...Galen...one of you two is gonna have to shave so I can tell ya apart!!! LOL (Just joking. If I would pay more attention I'd do fine. LOL)

Oh wow OE!! I'm jealous! Yeah...that cat was something else, huh? Most people love Garfield. I love Fat Freddy's Cat and Bill the Cat.

That was my point in asking the question at all, Belle. :D Trying to understand, explain or teach the truth about something from the pov of a lie is, well, ya know, not going to get anybody any closer to the truth. Robin bases her article on propounded lies without, interestingly enough, studying what the bible actually says.

OMG!!!!! Somebody else who remembers the "Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers"!!!!! Fat Freddy's cat always killed me! LMAO!!!! I have no idea what the rest of y'all are talking about.... Hehehehe.

Maybe I'm not understanding here... But who says we're made righteous automatically? Any righteousness we may have is associated with what we do and what we will be given...not with just because we're born again. 'Sonship Rights'...a terribly misleading, misguided, self-serving and unbiblical concept dreamed up by a man who needed to cover his a$$.

I'm looking into what, if any, other information/studies are around and whatever else I can find out about this. It's just too important not to see about it...and see if there's anything I can do to help things move along if it's all that it's cracked up to be.

Wow, Dot. It's been rough for you, hasn't it? Wow. I'm sorry! {{{{{Dot}}}}} What blows me away is that I've had the exact opposite experience with Latino men. Oh, sure, there were a couple of them who acted the way you've described...but that doesn't fly long with me...from ANY man. Hehehe. We lived on the CA coast for 12 years. Most of the time the jobs I had were waitressing either in restaurants or bars/dance clubs or working in fish processing plants. Either way I was surrounded by Latino men and women. As I said above, my experience has been the exact opposite of yours. What I experienced was deep kindness and caring for one another and for the community at large. Children were seen as priceless gifts...mine included. Family was all important. Any 'machismo' was expressed by who could give the most. Our son's first language was Spanish...and at the age of 9 months he was made into a 'pepper belly'...to this day he LOVES 'real' Spanish rice. LOL His sitter was a Mexican woman and her children. They loved our son! She took him wherever she went...showed him off to all her friends as if he were her own child. Right now my next-door neighbors are Mexican cousins (both young men). They work for a tree service and are trying to get their own business going. They have done over $5,000.00 worth of work on our trees...for free. Every time they see me they say, "Missus do you need anything? Can we help you with anything? You just call us if you ever need anything." They love to work on cars with my husband and they love to share food with us and love it when I send over some 'real American food'. We're even planning to have several block bar-b-que parties (the block consists of us and them...the other houses all around us have been torn down and the streets have been blocked off permanently...so it's very private down here) with lots of family and friends and dancing and singing...and hopefully even have Mariachi sometime. Our most favorite thing to do on an evening out is go around to the Latino clubs and bars and 'graze' on the foods offered by the street vendors. Most often there are Mariachi playing out in the parking lots and we have a good time listening and sometimes even dancing. They all get a real kick out of seeing the 'gringos' eating hot food. LOL As for what you're experiencing... Jerks like that come in all colors, races, ethnic backgrounds, etc. How would you deal with it if it were a white man or woman? Any differently? (I'm not trying to insult you...just trying to understand you.) I guess all I can say concerning 'machismo' is that I don't think what you've experienced is the 'norm'...imo.

This may be too technical for folks to get through, but it's very, very interesting to this discussion, imo: http://www.macalester.edu/psychology/whath...AO/Dutch%20Guys

Interesting stuff, T-Bone!! I did some more looking around and came up with this information: http://www.macalester.edu/psychology/whath...AO/Dutch%20Guys http://www.macalester.edu/psychology/whath.../MAO/tg8%20mice These two articles are very interesting in and of themselves. In fact, I'm going to post the one about the Dutch family over on the kiddypic kiddyvid (or however she titled that thread) thread. I'm going to look around some later on, too. Thanks!

Yeah...what Belle and rascal just said. :)

Scifi Friday rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Candace is my fave. I also like Trading Spaces, Design On A Dime, Designer's Challenge, While You Were Out and Surprise By Design. Right now I'm designing a kitchen sink/work area loosely based on one of Candace's bathroom sink designs. I'm taking a kidney-shaped pond/fountain liner and going to line the bottom with river rock and cover that about 1.5" deep in resin. This will give me the counter top. Then I'm going to get 2 huge glass mixing bowls (hopefully I can find bowls 16" in diameter...if not I will have to have them special made) to use for sinks. I'll set one on each 'end' of the kidney. All the plumbing will be done in clear PVC and stainless...the idea being to make the plumbing part of the artistic design. I'll use rope lighting under the counter for both artistic and lighting effects. Most of what I can't find pre-made I can make myself. It's going to be lots of fun! :) We buy old crack houses that have been torn up and pretty much left for demolition. It's a whole lot of fun to rehab/remodel these homes...when things actually get done...hehehehe...but time and money limit us quite often.

That's Katharine McPhee. Simon compares her to Kelly Clarkson...which is why I think Simon may have jinxed her. Once that comparison stuff gets started it's hard to stop...and being compared to an earlier winner seems to be the death kiss for contestants. Kevin Covais is 'Chicken Little'. The thing I love best about AI is that nobody walks away a 'loser'. The worst of the worst have walked away with fame and some have even obtained fortune (can anybody say 'She Bang'!?!?). I don't think that there's been one person in any of AI's top 12 groups who would have ever come anywhere near to such opportunity if it hadn't been for AI. Which is the 2nd thing I love best about AI.

That would be Taylor Hicks. :)

My picks: Chris, Mandisa, Taylor, Paris. I started off thinking Paris was my idol. I don't know what happened to her, but she's not bringing her game any longer. Katharine McPhee is coming up the ranks impressively...I can say I certainly have McPhever! LOL Lisa was impressive until something happened and she became mechanical...or something. Chris is serious! I didn't see last night, but what I have seen of Chris is that he gets better and better...and that he can ROCK OUT!!! :D Mandisa is just divine! AI is not going to make or break her. She's just all that and then some. Taylor is just plain fun, imo. A little goofy sometimes, but it's fun. And he can sing! Elliot has talent but there's something missing for me. Dunno what, but something. Ace? Kevin is just too cute, can sing a little bit, but what is up with that lisp????? Does he refuse to work on it because he thinks it's cute or something? Overboard, imo. Bucky is Bucky. Not much else I have to say there. Kellie? <_< She turned out to be far less than what she seemed in her audition. Her story touched me and I was hooked on her at first. Now her story is wearing a little thin. I've missed only 3 or 4 shows of all the years of AI. I predicted the first three idols at the audition stage. (How Carrie Underwood won, I'll never understand.) Fantasia is my favorite, Ruben comes in 2nd, Kelly Clarkson 3rd...and Carrie doesn't even rank with me. Welcome to being an AI addict my dear exC!!!! :D

Mark, I used to feel the same way. But over the years I have learned that the information was twisted when presented in pfal...and was so subtle and damning that to get any real good out of the information I had to dump it all and re-study it from the original researcher's information. More than anything, though, the 'believing=receiving' that is the cornerstone of vpw's presentation in pfal is very, very damaging stuff.

Answering for me and me alone. :) Did anyone try to control you? I think that really depended on how old a person was when they got involved, whether they were male or female, what kind of leadership they had in their area, etc. The term 'mind control' around here is a hotly debated term. LOL For me, it was more like 'strongly encouraged to follow directions...and with grave consequences if you didn't'. Others, in later years, were subject to more actual control. If any of you were pregnant or significant other was pregnant, did you have any difficulties with twi? if so what were they? Oh man! I can't directly address this, but if you look around there are many, many stories about what happened when someone in corps or some other program became pregnant without permission. I think there's even a link to information on the main page of GreaseSpot. Were you scared at any point and why? In Alaska there was a pedophile ring being operated under the guise of 'Children's Fellowship'. Our family happened to be one of the families caught in that trap. I turned over all information I had to the Alaska authorities. Afterwards I was very afraid of one of the perps because he would sit out in front of our apartment building, night after night...and he was a VERY violent person. The fear I experienced in twi was more about individuals rather than the whole group. What drew you to this group? I was 16 when I got involved...and I was 'in love'...and he was involved. Do you think you were brainwashed or doing things by your own will? See my answer to your first question. What were the known rules inside the group that they don't talk or write about outside of the group? Since twi touted that there was no such thing as 'membership' in the group, the 'rules' were fluid and depended upon who you were, where you were, what leadership you had, etc. This is a very slippery organization. But I never went corps or anything...so I really can't address this too much. What beliefs did/do they follow? The biggies, imo, are: Jesus Christ is Not God; the dead are not alive now (no immediate trip to 'heaven' or 'hell' upon death); absent Jesus (Jesus went to heaven and now there's only us believers who have 'christ in us' and replace Jesus in the world today); Manifestations and Gift Ministries (speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophets, teachers etc...what most people outside of twi consider 'pentecostal'); Administrations (aka 'dispensationalism' outside of twi). What did you think was really false about the group? TWI taught 'the love of god in the renewed mind in manifestation'. TWI was NOT EVER about the love of God. Did they limit you to have certain things or not to own certain things? OMG!!! Yes!!! Uncle Hairy Day was all about burning books, records/tapes/cds, clothing, posters, knick-knacks, etc just in case they 'harbored devil spirits'. Basically anything non-twi produced was suspect as 'devilish'. Were there money issues? Whew! Another YES!!!! Beginning with tithing twi demanded at least 10%. It was 'strongly encouraged' (i.e., considered most important to prove one's worthiness to 'god') to give 15-20%. The WOW program demanded people work only 4 hours a day so that they could do their ministry work the rest of the time. I don't know much about the corps program. There was the 'no debt' policy...which I can't address as I was out of twi when that became the norm. TWI demanded attendance at every and all meetings...which so often put a financial burden on people as work was missed/jobs lost in favor of attending functions, later on people were demanded to drive as much as 200 miles to attend meetings/functions, always another class to take...and each class cost big $$, on and on twi demanded time and money that ended up costing people everything. Is there any kind of symbol or trademark that they used? EEEEEK YES!!!! Earlier it was The Way Tree, later on it became the Golden Bible. What is PFAL? PFAL=Power For Abundant Living. It was the 'foundational class' that twi used to indoctrinate people. It is mostly plagiarized material vpw 'put together' in books and then twisted beyond recognition in the class (imo). What is "twig" ("twig" cordinator)? Originally The Way was structured like a 'tree'. The 'roots' being international headquarters in New Knoxville, OH; each country being a 'trunk'; each state being a 'limb'; each city/location being a 'branch'; each fellowship being a 'twig'; each person being a 'leaf'. It took 7 leaves to make a twig, 7 twigs to make a branch. From there I don't know how they determined anything. A 'twig coordinator' was a person who ran the twig. Do a search here. There are threads that discuss everything you've asked. :) And tell your Mama "hi! I miss you!" for me, too. How is she?

No derail...it's an open discussion! LOL Of course I enjoy it!!!!

OM...you seem to be an insightful person most of the time...how is it you are so willfully blind to the point of the ridiculous when it comes to the reality of twi?

OM..that's not the point... The point is... Did twi bless or curse the 'brethren'? The answer is woefully obvious that twi was all about curses.

That's the problem in a nutshell, imo. VPW called himself 'the teacher' and made a really big deal about it...as did most who took piffle or hung around twi for any length of time...and vpw was too often referred to and took the role of 'our father in the word'. Look at the different perspective Jesus has about 'the teacher' and 'the father': "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. The greatest among you will be your servant. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." Matthew 23:8-12 (NIV) "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet." John 13:13, 14 (NIV) VPW exalted himself above all. VPW tried to take the place of Jesus and God in our lives. If anybody wants to pass that on to anybody else...especially in the face of all the evidence of the evil that this brings into people's lives...well, then that anybody is willfully blind at best...willfully passing on evil at worst.

LMAO mstar, Belle, Tom, rhino! Well, Belle, if a subject is going to change, you sure have a way of making it fun! LMAO!!!