CoolWaters

1+1=2. Except when 1+1=3 or more. Think about it.

Oh yeah...don't trust your experiences...doubt everything about your life...believe what I tell you to believe...especially when I tell you that your experiences in the motorcoach were a figment of your drugged imagination...or when I tell you that your children will be blessed by gawd for obeying 'leadership' when led by 'leadership' into making child pornos for said 'leadership'. Ya think there was a personal agenda behind teaching people to shrug off their personal experiences? Nah. Couldn't have been. All this said with tongue firmly in cheek.

This is the post that started this thread. I bristled when I read, "The people who attend will be new and will not know anything about twi, all they will get is a real Bible study." Why? Because these people who will be taking this class will be kept in the dark about what is really going to happen to them. Freelady later says: Already the badmouthing of churches...and the reiteration of keeping her 'students' in the dark about what they are really being introduced to. A little later is this exchange: Come to my class it will be free......... Out-and-out bait a la twi style. Then, later on, this post: Now it's 'her' class. She still doesn't care about 4 cruicified or belly buttons. And in this post she admits that what she saw in twi was so bad that she didn't stick around. And later even: She calls twi a "dictatorship" and says "it was short of being a cult". Then she says "I guess I was lucky and took the good and ran with it, although I wish I had ran harder." And even later on: Wow. She says, "I hate to say this, but I left twi early because I knew something wasn't right to begin with in the way it was being ran." And follows that with, "I liked the drs teachings. But everyone put him up on a pedestal and there was something weird to me about that. I was not going to be in any group that I had to separate myself from my family because they didn't believe like I did," Jevoah Witness" came to mind." She still doesn't care about 4 crucified or belly buttons. After that, nothing from her. My problem with this whole thread is that it was started by somebody who has nothing but praise for pfal, but who then also has nothing but criticism for the monster that was spawned by pfal...and who is going to do the same thing with an unsuspecting group of people who she is purposely going to keep in the dark. It's twi all over again.

I get you, Mo. Have all along. And whole-heartedly agree. Have all along. I think the muddying of the waters comes in with the nit-picking and ripping to shreds the spirit of the message...not with the stating of one's position/understanding/beliefs/thoughts. Which is basically what this experiment was about... That when one picks nits, when one must shred the spirit of the message, one never gets the message and one's 'logic' cannot stand up to the whole of the message. (I hope that makes sense instead of muddying the waters. LOL!) Has anyone heard of the terms 'letter of the law' and 'spirit of the law'? These terms are used quite a bit in discussions about legal matters and issues. For example, it is the 'letter of the law' to issue a speeding citation regardless of any extenuating circumstances. However, if the officer who stops the car finds a woman giving birth in the backseat of that car...and realizes her husband was speeding in an effort to get her to the hospital, the officer can use his/her discretion to not issue a citation and even provide a 'lights and siren' escort. The officer has this option because 'the spirit of the law' was to make the highways and byways safe, not to punish those with a legitimate reason for speeding. OK, I've made up a couple of other terms to describe what I saw happen in twi...and see happen here in discussions quite a bit. They are 'letter of the bible' and 'spirit of the bible'. As relates to this particular subject of righteousness, the 'letter of the bible' says once made righteous, always righteous. However, the 'spirit of the bible' unquestionably refutes the 'letter of the bible'. (Again, I hope that makes sense instead of muddying the waters. LOL!)

OK...kewl. And again, TYVM. I was drained mentally and emotionally when I started this thread...which showed up rather quickly, didn't it? Maybe a 2nd try in a better state of mind/emotions would be just the thing to do. Good idea! TYVM. :)

Chas! It's so nice to see you here! :D And bringing such lovely gifts and input! :D Well, the point of this particular thread was/is to show the mindset of pfal/twi. All I did was post some scripture and ask if anybody could find any exceptions to what that scripture put forth. The 'experiment' was to see if pfal/twi proponents would do anything so simple as to either find the exceptions and post them...or if they would argue the topic to death and, therefore, avoid having to answer the question. Now, to be honest, I chose that particular scripture because of the conversation (if you could call it that) on Belle's thread about the way rag article addressing righteousness. (Gawd I hope that's thread I borrowed it from...sometimes I get lost as to which thread is talking about what...LOL!) And I did so because nobody could get a straight answer from pfal/twi proponents in that thread. Again, my point was/is to show the mindset of those who adhere to pfal/twi 'teachings'...and that the mindset leads to strife and division...or maybe not even leads to strife and division, but is probably rooted in strife and division. I think the experiment was a success....in an odd sort of definition of success.

Falstaff! What a walk down memory lane!

OIC! TYVM! What was in my head was to look at questionable things we believe...either of the bible or of twi or of anything else that we may mix up with either of those two. Hmmmm. Any suggestions about how to word a thread title to reflect that? Again, TYVM!

Linda, I understand what you are saying. If I found out my children's pediatrician was a pedophile, would I quit taking my children to him/her? Absolutely! But I'd find another pediatrician. If I found out that my American Government teacher was a dyed-in-wool Nazi (which actually happened, btw), would I dump everything she taught me? Maybe not, but I did question everything she taught me and had to unlearn many things...stuff like the holocaust never happened. But I still went on to study American Government. I'm not advocating anyone to dump what they learned in pfal, but to dump the mindset learned in pfal. I've learned that handling holy scripture requires one to live according to holy scripture to the best of their understanding. I've learned that the reason for this requirement is so that one does not become a wolf in sheep's clothing that ends up devouring the flock instead of tending the flock.

So you were planning an attack... You didn't ask the question to find an answer, but to tell me off. As I said before, a person with such moral character as vpw cannot lead to Jesus.

rickyg, That's a whole thread unto itself...a lifetime of threads! The short answer is get to know Jesus. But there's sooooo much more to it all.

A post I just put up on the pfal thread is aprpos here:

My problem with pfal is that the focus was turned from 'the Word' to 'the rightly divided word', and from Jesus to 'the teacher'. Why do I have a problem with these things? The bible clearly and repeatedly states that Jesus is the Word. PFAL leads one away from the Word and into worshiping the bible itself as a false idol. The bible clearly and repeatedly states that Jesus is the Teacher. PFAL leads one away from Jesus and into following a false teacher. I fully believe that the moral character of the teacher of pfal is the root of this leading away unto a false idol and a false teacher. Did vpw mean to do that? I dunno. I do know that, having his moral character, he could not have led people to anything else...could not possibly have led people to the Word and the Teacher...because that was not in his moral makeup...as is evidenced by his fruit. Does anybody's moral character make the truth a lie? I can only answer that with what the bible says:

Well, you may not consider it valid, but in this post I've stated my purpose in starting this thread.

Hmmm...ambush...from me? Please explain. If you think I did this to ambush, I'd like to know that I'm doing such a thing...because I really don't know that I am doing such a thing. My purpose for starting this thread is clearly stated in my first post. I specifically and clearly said, "Without getting into long, sideways arguments like buzz saws about moats and beams n things..." And I have not gotten into such arguments and things in this thread.

Yeah...pretty much...until we get used to ya or you say something else. Hehehehe. I think maybe it's because we didn't get to do such a thing in twi...

I know it's your first day...that's why I was nice about it. Anybody around here can tell you that I'm not too worried about my threads getting off topic...I just like to mess with people about it. (Yes...I have a different sense of humor.) And I do try to herd people back on topic if the off topic subject/feel of posts gets too far gone. Anyway... The one thing I always hope whenever I start a topic is that we can think outside of our regular box. Open discussion is one of the best ways to accomplish that...so you're not really off topic with me...unless, of course, well...I can't think of anything right now...but those who know me will tell you I'll think of something sooner or later. LOL And oh... You are doing pretty good! See you tonight in chat? (I tend to prefer Flash Chat...but if most people are in Live Chat I'll pop in there awhile until more people are in Flash Chat...and I forget I have to log out of Live Chat...so I may appear to be there but not really be there...)

OK...my guess is that you learned this one via twi, not via the bible. (As a side note...it would be helpful if you would pay attention to what people post concerning topics/purposes of threads...and look around to see if there are threads with discussions already going concerning what you want to talk about. Not chewing you out...just noticed that a couple of times or so it seems like your posts were for another thread.)

Dang...I was trying to c&p...not reply...or quote...or anything...dang....can a moderator erase this by any chance?

pond, Forget it... I've known forever not to even try a decent conversation with you... So I'm stopping now... Blather on without me... TYVM...

I knew somebody was gonna make me go first... Sigh... OK... Lemme think a minute (I'm kinda brain dead right now...having spent the better part of today running my head through buzz saws...hehehehe)... If you don't work, you don't eat. Taking care of one another is second only to loving God. Fulfilling the Law is the same thing as doing away with the Law. If you really believe something, it will happen. SIT is the proof of being born again. OK...these are probably too easy...but that's my list. Now, can you guess if I learned each one from the bible or from twi? Just do a list (by going up to the upper right hand corner over where you type in your reply and click on the thing that has 1___ 2___ 3___ and the program will guide you through doing a list) and put your guess for each item next to its corresponding number. This isn't a debate. This is a game...for fun...tyvm...

Yes Mz Belle...I saw your advice and took heed. LOL Now that I know how rascal sounds and how she tells a story...OMG...I think I'll get a straight jacket, too...just in case...

Without getting into long, sideways arguments like buzz saws about moats and beams n things... Make a list of things you learned in the bible and things you learned in twi (either in 'approved' classes or by word-of-mouth or however you learned them). Post that list but don't tell anybody which is which....just let people guess. It will be an interesting exercise in finding out what we've learned and, maybe, what we haven't unlearned. After 2 or 3 or so people guess, please have the decency to let us know the 'answers', OK? And please duly cite biblical passages and where/how/from whom you learned twi stuff. Thank you! :) And if this gets moved to Doctrinal or Just Plain Silly...I'm gonna throw a fit! :P

Again...I shoulda listened to my mother...

Hiya mckeanj and welcome. Yeah...live chat and Flash chat are usually hopping about 8pm Central time.