CoolWaters

You all on the west coast are not going to BELIEVE who is in the bottom 3!!!!! I'll keep my keyboard silent until you've had a chance to watch. Sigh.

Sigh. We're having fun already, aren't we? OK, so now we've added PFD...but she's not going to stay in the suite...unless she shouldn't drive for some reason...hehehe. Those of you who are planning to fly in please let me know your ETAs so that transportation to the hotel can be arranged, OK? TYVM! Also, there was talk of renting a vehicle. Let's keep each other informed so this doesn't end up happening at the airport...or we'll just have to don our robes and, since Belle is wearing bells, do a little dance, make a little noise, get down tonight...hehehe...I'll be you all thought I was gonna actually put in the right lyrics...hehehehe...then White Dove would just have to inform a certain 'hate church' of GGGW. (Hint...they lyrics are from a song by K C and the Sunshine Band. Get it? LOL)

TYVM {{{{all}}}} for your comments here. I really don't know what to say...I kinda get freaky after I do something like this...so I tend to kinda keep quiet afterwards about it all... I'm going to go ahead and send this via snail mail to as many places as I can...hoping it will get to him. I'll be sending it certified, return receipt requested so that I can chart the progress or lack of progress with each address...and kinda keep the whole situation in front of me so it doesn't bite me on the rear...if ya know what I mean.

I really, really, really tried to avoid this thread...'cause I'm such a sucker for this kind of stuff...sigh. Time travel has been my pet 'project' ever since I can remember. But I usually keep that to myself or speak very little about it....ya know? There're already too many reasons to put me in a white restrictive jacket.... Someday I'll keep some of the conversations me and +odd (and others around the globe) have about such subjects...and maybe I'll even post some stuff. Danggit Tom!!!!

{{{{{Roy}}}}} You are one very special man. I am humbled. *************** Just a bit of information that I thought was well known but evidently isn't... I no longer live in Topeka. I live in Kansas City...about 60 miles NE of Topeka. But your prayers are always welcome anyway! :D White Dove's pretty tough...I think the Phelps' would never even dream of messing with him...but I know prayers for him are greatly appreciated, too. :D **************** Still blowing my mind, Roy.

I'm being forced to do this...! 1. What time do you get up? 4:30am weekdays, Whenever week-ends 2. If you could eat lunch with one person, who would it be? Billy Graham 3. Gold or silver? Silver 4. What is the last film you saw at the cinema? What the Bleep 5. What is/are your favorite TV show(s)? American Idol, Bones, House, Medium, Ghost Whisperer, Stargate SG-1, Stargate: Atlantis, Commander in Chief 6. What did you have for breakfast? Roast beef sandwich 7. Who would you hate to be stuck in a room with? Shellon...she burps juicy ones in chat...hehehe 8. What is your middle name? Lynn 9. Beach, City or Country? Beach 10. Favorite ice cream? Anything Russell Stover's 11. Butter, plain or salted popcorn? Butter and salted 13. What kind of car do you drive? Caddy Sedan Deville 14. Favorite sandwich?Mr. Goodcent's Roast Beef sub 15. Favorite flower? Carnation 16. If you could go anywhere in the world on vacation, where would you go? CA coast 17. What color is your bathroom? gray and white 18. Favorite kind of clothing? tank top w/broom skirt and flip flops 19. Where would you retire to? Santa Barbara, CA 20. Favorite day of the week? Why? Right now it's Tuesday...because of American Idol. 21. What did you do for your last birthday? Cried 22. Where were you born? KCKS 23. Favorite sport to watch? BASEBALL!!!! 24. Who do you least expect to respond? Me...but I was forced into it...sigh... 25. Person you expect to respond first? I'm not the type to force people into these things...like somebody I know is...! 26. What fabric detergent do you use? Why? Tide Free...because Tide does great! And I'm allergic to most soaps. 27. Coke or Pepsi? Coke...even if some southern gals drink it, too. 28. Are you a morning person or a night owl? Both. I take lots of little catnaps. 29. What is your shoe size? Ummm...big enough to do some damage, small enough to...well...you know...hehehe. 30. Do you have any pets? Dog, cat, some wild rabbits and 'possum. 31. Are you happy with your job? Yes...except I haven't started yet! :/ 32. What is one thing you want to do in life that you have not done yet? Be the next Oprah 33. If you had the chance to get married again- would you? Are you freakin' kidding...? 34. If you won the lotto what would you do? Get completely out of debt, buy several vacant downtown buildings and rehab them, then open the healing center I've had planned for many years. 35. If you had three wishes - what would they be? 1)That the damage to my children's lives could be undone, 2)To live long enough to help raise my great-great grandchildren, 3)Be healthy in all ways. 36. What are your hobbies? GSC, gardening, crocheting and knitting, graphic art, watching movies 37. What are some things you always hope you get for Christmas? My family all together.

Oh chit!! I forgotted about ya OM! You can come out of the corner now...if you've learned your lesson.

Oh...Roy...I in no way meant to say that they do any good at all. I'm sorry I wasn't clear. What I was trying to show was that although this clan is a hate clan, they are accepted into mainstream society...and that's just plain scarey.

I used to ask myself, "If so-and-so (usually some twi 'leadership') came to my door naked, hungry, thirsty and homeless, would I help them?" For the longest time I thought it my Christian duty to help. Then one day I had an epiphany...or something...maybe a V8? Anyway, I recognized that real help was something I could not provide. I also realized that there would be no way in he11 I'd expose myself, my husband or my children to these people again without at least one armed guard present on my behalf. So then I decided that if any so-and-so came to my door in dire straights, I'd hand a blanket through the door, leave them standing on the porch, call the police and ask that they be escorted to the local Rescue Mission. I'm still pretty happy with this decision at this point.

OM!! Now you go sit in the corner for awhile and think about how you're going to participate in this thread like a big boy! I'll let you know when to come out of the corner!

Been thinking about this thread all day... Been thinking about my anger, too...why do I jump in when I know it's often just another effort in futility...when I know that it's another thing about which I have to look within and figure out, but I write away anyway and then hit 'add reply'...anyway. "Because I can," is the only thing I can come up with...ya know? I can be angry...finally. I can talk about it...finally. I can get feedback...finally. I can choose...finally. Me and Belle disagreed for the first time either yesterday or the day before. It scared me! A few days ago ChattyCathy and I had some stuff we had to clarify and figure out. It scared me! I adore these women...and I was disagreeing with them...and I felt that old stuff come up...and it all freaked me out...that maybe these women would never talk to me again...maybe they'd start terrible rumors about me...maybe this was going to be the day I'd be locked out of GSC forever and never have a chance to figure things out and get it all back to good again. It was a total ptsd thingy for me. But none of that stuff happened...we worked through it...and I actually feel as though we have better relationships. Then there's exC...good ol' exC...who says what she thinks and lets others say what they think and doesn't hold a grudge or anything...and HOLY MOLY! have I ever needed exC since forever!!!! :D :D And Shell...you just let me say whatever I need to say. You let me rant and rave. Then, when you're pretty sure you're not going to catch a grenade, you ask me, "What's that all about?" And I can tell you...and you usually laugh. What a relief!!!!! Mo and me...we had some stuff. Stuff we had to talk about. Stuff we lived through together but never talked about...until GSC. We were 'enemies' once upon a time...but not really...that was twi's hope and 'accomplishment'...until we talked about it all...and found a place of deep, abiding friendship that has transcended the evil perpetrated in both our lives...against our children...against us. What a relief for me to know that Mo and her children were even alive! And to be kept abreast of even the tiniest hurdle overcome. Sigh. All of us GSC women folk and our children...what awesome women and children we be!!!!!!!! I value each and every one of us and hold us all in a place in my heart where I hope to keep us safe with prayer, love, and a great big wall that nobody had better cross with any evil intention!!!!!! Oh!!! Wanna get my anger showing real quick? Mess with us women and our children!!!!! The men here, though...that took me a long, long time to figure out. But you women folk helped me even in this. Now I see men as possible friends and not monsters to fear and hate and either hide from or attack vehemently. That's something that I needed to heal from that was put into my life long before twi...but twi made even worse. But here I get to heal...finally. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the arguing and contentions and stuff don't bother me so much...because it's still dialogue...it's still being real with one another...it's still a part of being human that twi denied us. It might scare me, but I'm learning that the time of fearing is over. YAY!!!! I really, really needed that.

Shell, I have come to a place in my life where I need to understand how each person...myself included...became the keepers of twi's insanity. I need to dig into and really look at the part each one of us played in making sure the box was locked, making sure that it was all kept in the household, making sure that twi be not blamed. IMO, so much of the anger that I express and see on the threads has a whole lot to do with wanting to rage against the machine that gave twi its power over people's lives. It's just not acceptable conversation at this point in time. This is all just my opinion and only from my perspective.

This is the year that I just can't say. Originally I picked Paris. Then I went with Mandisa. Then Chris. Then Taylor. But I've come to appreciate Elliot quite a bit...and I certainly have McPheever! After last night, I'd say Kat is going to give everybody else a real run for their money. But who knows at this point? Not me! That's the beauty of AI, though...all of these kids are going to walk away winners.

This family of mainly lawyers (11 children and 9 of them are lawyers...I think that's the correct count) aren't so 'out of step' as some would think. Their law firms handle quite a bit of child support cases for the state and county. These siblings practically run state activities concerning parolees. Anybody who wants to win in court when it comes to constitutional law and/or civil rights hires a Phelps. Their firms are pit bull dogs when it comes to collections activities. The Phelps clan is an active, deeply engrained and acceptable part of the fabric of local, county and state politics in Kansas. The number of "Support Our Troops" bumper stickers on cars in the parking lots of their firms is mind boggling...considering how completely non-supportive this clan is of our troops. But dang...it's one thing to show disdain for this clan's activities...and quite another to be so disdainful as to not hire them when ya need a good lawyer.

Now that just takes the cake!!!!! LMAO!!!!

From the "Did Paul Apologize??" thread: At first I thought, "Yeah...right...like Craig and/or Donna or anybody else is going to actually take any of it seriously." Then I thought, "Why not try?" So I'm posting a letter here...and maybe I'll actually mail it to HQ or something. *********************************** Dear Craig, I first met you when our twig had come from Topeka, KS to Emporia to help clean up the campus and get it ready for use by The Way International. I'm sure you don't remember me. :) You were funny, energetic, impressive (to my teen-aged brain), and seemed to be very caring. When you taught, I was moved to my very core...and I listened. I wanted to be like you. I wanted to teach like you. I wanted to serve God's Ministry just like you. So I paid a whole lot of attention to your words, your actions, your example. Being active in twigs in Kansas made it simple to be at Emporia quite a bit, so I got to spend quite a bit of time listening to you, watching you, and getting to know you here and there. Every chance I had to catch you outside and chat a bit, I took the opportunity. It took me 3 years of going to twig before I finally sat through more than the first half of the first session of PFAL. I even paid for the class twice and was charged another $25 when I finally gave in and decided to sit through it all. The deciding factor was when my twig leader asked me how I was ever going to get to the point you were at if I never took the class. When VPW chose you as the one to whom he was going to 'pass the mantle', I was reserved but ecstatic that it was YOU. I was reserved because I didn't know if you could hold up under the pressure...lots of people were not happy about it being you. I was ecstatic because if you could hold up under the pressure, I thought you'd be GREAT! In late 1985, early 1986 I wrote several letters to you, your wife, and Mrs. VPW. The letters were about the mess of things in Alaska. You and your wife individually responded to my last letter. Your response was scribbled diagonally across a small piece of notepaper. You said, "I don't know what to say." and signed it with your initials. At the time I understood that all hell was breaking lose...for you and for the whole Way Ministry. So I thought your note was about all that you had to give at the time. I held no grudge or ill will about it. I just prayed and prayed for you, your family, and the Way International. My family and I finally had to leave the Way Ministry for our own safety and sound mind. I never blamed you. In fact, I kept thinking that if I could have sat down with you for an hour, everything would be cleared up and fixed. In 1998 I found an internet message board for ex-cult people to vent. I was shocked!!!! How COULD people be so hateful of you and VPW??? My very first post was a lengthy scolding of all for such vile, evil thinking. Slowly, very slowly, the scales came off of my eyes. Then you and VPW fell from the pedestal I had placed you upon. I was very angry for several years. Now I am at a place in my life that I would like to sit with you for a long time and talk human being to human being. I'm not so gullible as I was once upon a time, so I'm no longer afraid of you. I have come to grips with realizing my own hand in my own destruction, so I don't totally blame you any longer. I don't want to yell at you. That might happen, but it would happen only because of the emotional fire that would be stirred up, not because of hatred or malice towards you. I don't want to accuse you. I will ask you pointed questions about why you did or did not do some things, but that would be for understanding and clarification, not for accusation. I do want to know where you stand in your heart now. I do want to know if you are repentant. I do want to ask you if you will do anything to help those you have harmed. I'd be happy to have a mediator involved. You can contact me via email at billandvickynicholson@yahoo.com. Vicky Nicholson

Um...well...uh...Tom...I asked that particular question because I was hoping somebody would reply with "The Shadow Knows!"....hehehehe...kind like your "sitting on a park bench" statement...hehehehe...

Do you know how to contact him? I'd certainly like a heart-to-heart with him. Honestly. I knew him long before he was a big shot...and held both he and Donna in high esteem for a long, long time. I have some very good memories of both of them. I still have both of their responses to my last letter to HQ...about the stuff going on in AK. I would love to discuss things...with hindsight and all. I want to know if either of them would ever help put those particular lives back together...help with some cash, some college funds and/or scholarships, help with some money for long-term counseling, help with setting some records straight...APOLOGIZING...you know...real, honest, human, Christian stuff. Yeah...I'd vent my anger, too. But ya know something? I've matured enough to know when venting my anger is done...and when the healing process can begin...if folks are willing and cooperative.

And there ya have it...I dunno! :D :D :D

For a long time I shrugged my shoulders when my gay friends used the 'if you hate gays so vehemently, then you're a closet queen' argument. How would I know? But I've been married to a gay man...twice...and I am married to a straight man...have been for nearly 26 years... And I gotta tell ya, being disgusted with, even loathing homosexuality isn't a tell-tale sign of being a closet queen. Yeah, it's fun to tease my hubs about it...I mean, teasing my hubs is just plain fun no matter what...hehehe. Teasing others that I know well enough to know that they know I'm teasing them is fun...in small doses at opportune times. But as a general rule of thumb? Nah. It doesn't float. What does float, however, is how often and how quickly one can go from adultery/promiscuity to multiple partners to 'curiousity' indulgences to 'anything goes'. It is a common thought among many groups that mankind in general is basically bi-sexual. I don't know if I would go that far...but I do know that when sex is mixed with drinking and/or drugs and is seen as 'just a bodily function', then it's not a far leap from 'straight' to 'bi'. Many cultures accept bi-sexuality as normal, too. Who really knows what lurks in the hearts of men, anyway?

Every time I think about pfal, I think about how vpw opened it up with the statement that it is not a class about the bible, but a class about how to read the bible. Then I think about 4 crucified, 'my god, my god, for this purpose was I spared', the church of the navelites, 'today (no comma)' v 'today, (comma)', 'became' void v 'was' void, 'manifestations' v 'gifts', 'administrations', 'tree' v 'cross', hands above Jesus' head on a tree v spread out on a cross, 'virgin birth' v 'virgin conception', and all the little 'nuances' that pfal honed in on...and drew our thinking towards...and caused us to actively divide the scriptures into nice little packages that stood by themselves instead of as a part of the whole picture... And I can't help but to realize that the purpose was just that... To keep us from seeing the whole picture. Why would anybody want to keep others from seeing the whole picture? So that others would never see the truth... Of anything. Was it done to justify vpw's behavior? I think it was done to keep us from even looking at his behavior. Why justify something that isn't even seen? Just imo...

I know I'm lost in this whole discussion. I mean, I have no 'insider's' or 'behind-the-scenes' information about ya, OM. I harbor no ill will towards you. I post what I post to you out of concern...because I don't think you honestly know how you're coming across...or how your reasoning (as posted out here in the open-to-all threads) often follows the same reasoning perpetrators use to discredit their victims...so there will be no trial...or, if there is, nothing will come of such a trial...because the 'reasonable doubt' was placed by the perpetrator into the minds of the victims themselves...so why wouldn't those who were not actual victims have 'reasonable doubt'? You see, OM, it is quite typical for a perpetrator to make the victims doubt if what happened really happened. Like lcm stating that his affairs were 'consensual sex'. Yeah. Right. LCM got 'consent' only after threats, mental/emotional/spiritual torture, beguilement, ridicule, mockery, shame, and a myriad of other forms of intense coercion and manipulation. And vpw drugged many of his victims to get 'consent'. I understand a need in many to have things 'proven' to them. Heck, if I'd been so inclined, I'd never have been involved with twi in the first place. But rape is a thing that goes beyond simple facts. The physical part of rape is all too often just the end result of a long, long time of 'preparing' the victim. (Which, btw, usually proves out to be the real 'turn on' in the rapist's mind...not the spurt at the end of it all.) Rape happens not just to the body, but all too often it first happens to the mind and the soul. How can one 'prove' that? It just usually isn't believed regardless of any proof, anyway. And that's the story of the Way International: the rape of body, soul and spirit. That you never felt raped is lucky, OM. Or, what I'm beginning to wonder, is maybe because of what you were willing to 'close your eyes' to...or something. Maybe, OM, you were as much of a victim as anybody else... But you just can't admit it to yourself...and especially not to anybody here...because then you would have to blame yourself...and be put under the same scrutiny, mockery, insinuations, etc. that you have put others through. Chit happens in life, OM. Chit that is, a)out of one's control, b)out of one's understanding, c)beyond comprehension, d)cannot be 'proven' to everybody's satisfaction, and, e)scares the daylights out of us. If such chit happens/has happened to you, it doesn't make you bad. It makes you human. Can ya imagine joining the human race and not having to be 'perfectly perfected'? It really is too much for one person to bear. That's why it was borne for us. Ya know?

OK...you've made a great point. I'll behave and go over to the new thread. (Or maybe I'll just go make a wedgie smilie...) Still love you, too!

Belle...imo I think it pretty much is still on topic. I've not been real comfortable with this 'new insight' about lcm. I've felt all along that there's something not quite right with this thread. Now... But, dear Darlene Louise Thelma, me and you are having our first disagreement! Woo hoo! :)

FACT: You defend rapists. FACT: You call rape victims liars if they don't measure up to your standard of proof for 'truth'. FACT: You use your closeness to vpw as 'evidence' that you 'know' better than the victims. FACT: You turn every conversation into a finger-pointing game against those who were victimized by vpw and lcm. FACT: You ignore all evidence of eye witnesses. FACT: When all else fails, you cast vpw's and lcm's victims into a shadow of suspicion about their character. FACT: In doing all of this, you exhibit the behavior and the 'mindset' typical of a perpetrator.