CoolWaters

We certainly did have a TERRIFIC time, toppie! Exquisite food, exquisite company, exquisite memories. Who could ask for anything better? I was looking forward to GGGW...but with some brooding nervousness about it all. Now I am completely at ease that GGGW is going to be a rip-roaring good time that we're going to be talking about and cherishing until next year's GGGW.

Well, Keith, the question implies the definition of "'readjusted' teachings" to be teachings taken from twi and revamped. If a group takes twi's teaching and builds from there, imo it is simply a different form of twi. The heart behind me asking the question was to get people thinking about whether or not the monstrous influence of twi got bigger or got smaller due to people leaving.

Ron....HS is gonna be doggin' ya now ya know.

Very nice, Wacky, very nice. TY for sharing. :D

We left twi before POP. Well, I should say we were only peripherally involved. I never heard or received the spittle flinging, ear shattering, face melting, butt reaming, potty-mouthed fits of apoplectic rage often described here on GSC. So I wasn't even considering that aspect of how some would feel about vulgarity, rudeness, etc. My apologies. That being said, I do prefer that people just say what they're thinking straightforwardly...even if that means it comes out a la an lcm fit. I listen to folks who are just up front and honest with me. Talk to me in 'sweet', 'understanding', 'polite' terms while you're dissing me...well !@^& ya. And, OH! Try coming off as one of the 'good guys/gals' when in truth you're just a sneaky, underhanded, manipulative, bigoted, arrogant, prejudiced, ignorant, controlling somethingorother...well, I'll just ignore ya. Life is too short to give such people more than the 30 seconds or so it takes to see through them. (See, David...my vocabulary really isn't all that 'limited'...I just LOVE to cuss. I'm teasing ya, dude.) What has been described here (the potty t-shirts, the persistent potty-mouth in front of children, such things) is not acceptable to me, either. Children are to be cared for, not exposed to things they don't need to be exposed to...especially if it is not acceptable to their parents. Other people have the right to general respect, too. My potty mouth usually does not show up until I am pretty sure that nobody is going to feel disrespected. I can usually tell...but if I'm being dense, I prefer somebody just ask me not to use such language around them...unless, of course, they are asking simply because they want to exert control in a situation...which is another subject...imo.

Scout...you are a she...? I'm so sorry I didn't get that! Well ignore my advice about getting with men...it's not gonna help much...except for enteratinment value. I feel so stupid now!

TYVM, toppie! :wub: But how come a penny/shilling is bad in the first place? Usually these sayings come from a very real situation. Were shillings poisonous at one time or something? And NO WAY is coolchef a bad penny!

I'll be turning 48 in October. Due to health reasons, I had a total hysterectomy less than a month after I turned 40...which abruptly threw me into menopause...which screwed with me big time...until I adjusted to it all. Anyway, being a woman has its own natural indicators of life changes. Men, I dunno how you all know what's what when. OK...maybe you don't. Just teasin'. I'm with Jard in that I seek out women who have been down a path before me...who can and will be a light unto my feet while I am upon a path. For me, the women of GSC have been the brightest, most loving, most caring, funniest, most knowledgeable, and just plain old the BEST women to bring the light to my feet. I think it's because the women of GSC get it when it comes to being a lamp instead of being a chain. All of the experiences of being in twi...and the resulting experiences...I think these things have made women of GSC far more sagacious than other women I have known. Or maybe I just prefer their company in general. What I'm saying is that finding some men who have 'been there, done that' could be a hoot and quite helpful. Pick their brains (no, no, no, no...leave their noses alone), listen to their stories, allow them to see you 'as you are'. As far as knowing what to do next or how to make life changes... This is the time in life to listen to your heart, imo. It has been my experience that the first 47 odd years of my life was a time when I lived up to expectations, let others tell me what was right for me, allowed myself to be sublimated for the sake of children, jobs, material things, marriages, whathaveyou. Now I'm looking back to the person I was before twi, before marriage, before children, before 'career goals', before I became somebody else's somethingorother. And I tell ya what... That person is the person I'm shaping myself into these days. She was self-reliant, capable, aware, talented, joyous, exuberant, and all the things that I have lost of her throughout the years. But I haven't really lost those things...they're inside me still...and bringing them out so I can play is just downright ALIVE! I've decided to spend the rest of my life playing. Everything I do is going to be for my enjoyment. The things that come along in life that I have no control over and that I don't enjoy, well, I'm going to disperse with those things immediately and get on with playing. I've been too close to death for too long to do anything else now that I'm in recovery. So, above all else, enjoy yourself!

It's sooooooooo nice to have another COOL person around... You're not a bad anything! And what is a 'bad penny' anyway? What does that mean?

When I was 19yo my boyfriend (now husband) moved me from Kansas to California...to be a fisherman's wife! The culture shock was bad enough...but living onboard a boat and having only fishermen and their families for company...well, it was eye-opening to say the least. But dang if I didn't learn to LOVE cussin' like a sailor! And telling tawdry jokes...and just fitting in quite nicely. So nothing much bugs me about words people use in their conversations, jokes they tell, subjects they talk about. Hubs and I were talking this morning about something that happened in AK in twi...when he told some off-color jokes...and the branch leader (who later became a convicted pedophile) reamed my hubs for nearly an hour about how my hubs was introducing debbil spurts. We wondered how people felt about such things after being out of twi. So... What bugs you? What are your definitions of vulgarity, rudeness, and other things that bug you? Are you ever so bothered by such things that you put people on ignore...or...GASP...even report the post?

Really? So here's a question I've been wondering about...and you don't have to respond at all...I'm just curious... How do the sentiments expressed in this thread and a couple of others come across to an HR person? I'm thinking a prayer to cover this thread against being used to the detriment of people would be in order...

Oak...you oughta run the HR depts of the world, man! :D

I can hear Jesus now... "Father, there are these certain types of people that I don't really like at all. You've got places in Your Holy Book that says these people are worthy of being french fried. Father, I know You sent me to die for ALL, but, Father, just this once, since the person asking is such a great BELIEVER, could Ya, would Ya PLEASE french fry Raul and that guy that 'swayed' past another terrific BELIEVER? I'd be forever in Your debt, Father. Thank you very much! I claim this in the name of Myself. Amen" Yeppers...good ol' Gawd LOVES a great gossip session...

Yowzah! I understood every word!!! :blink:

Back in his teen days my husband was in a very similar accident...and he was the one on the bike. Disturbing clip...but on target, imo.

I LOVE House!!!!!!!!!!! I also love Gordon Ramsey (Hell's Kitchen) and Simon Cowell (American Idol). Maybe I just have some sort of personality disorder... Anyway, hubs turned me on to House when it first came out. A co-worker of his told him about the show. We're addicts! LOL 4400...I got bored with it right off the bat. 24...intense...but more intense than necessary, imo. Joey...I got bored quickly. Out of Practice...haven't seen.

Dang! The things one can find out about another on GSC! So Jonny's gay and Mark's got two wives? And what's this about Vickles? Well, I'm telling no secrets here...at least not right now...hehehe. Anyway, married/divorced twice to the same man, then married my current hubs just over 26 years ago.

OK, OM, how much tweaking would it take to make it not twi material any longer?

Does it matter, OM, if the material gets tweaked here and there? Good to see you again, btw.

johniam, You bring up some valid points. The point about 1st grade is a good one because it separates the material from the teacher(s). I am hearing that no matter who teaches you 1st grade, you gotta learn it somehow. Exploring that line a bit more... It is common knowledge that not all children learn what they need to learn in 1st grade. Some school districts opt for certain material while others opt out of that same material. I don't know if there are national standards for what to teach in 1st grade (or any other grade for that matter). I'm more knowledgeable about college courses...what can be transferred, what can't...what expires after so many years, what doesn't. Any group can have a 'college' (like twi), but not every college is accredited. The material is very important. As is the teacher. Anybody can teach something, but not everybody is qualified to teach, oh, let's say English 101. I think it is the same with twi material and the 'teachers'. Is it good enough material to measure up to certain standards? Are the 'teachers' qualified and able to measure up to certain standards? Because twi material (or any church's material) deals with religion, most people don't even consider measuring the material against any standard...except their own emotional standards...like, "I had never before understood things so clearly", or, "I had never before met anybody so sure of themselves." And lawdy don't get me started on the 'teachers'!!!!! <_< VPW had enough actual education to be qualify as at least a substitute teacher outside of twi. LCM has enough education to qualify as a teacher outside of twi. From what I've read, RR is--or was--a teacher outside of twi. And we all learned...quite well, to boot. Then there were the other 'teachers'...those totally unqualified people put in leadership positions who took what they were taught and mostly (imo) bullied it onto the rest of us. And, more often than not, skewed what they were taught to the point that I don't think there is any group of more than 10 people on GSC who were taught the same material. Maybe we took the same classes, but how those classes were interpreted in individual fellowships...well...you've seen the arguments here. :B) In the end, twi is an abusive, narrow-minded cult...both because of the material and because of the 'teachers'. Which is probably the point that is at the root of my question. And now to this statement of yours: "There's a lot of "revisionist history" going on here. People who in TWI were genuinely delivered from bad stuff yet now they claim TWI screwed up their whole lives." For many, many years my thoughts went in this direction. In fact, this thinking has been at the back of mind all along. Until just last night...when I read something in the book, Thief of Souls by Darian North. On pages 132 and 133. The conversation is between a man (Dan), whose wife disappeared into a cult, and a deprogrammer. So I no longer see that anybody was 'delivered' in twi. I now see that people were kept too busy, too rattled, too something to be concerned with or continue in their problems. A perfect example of this is how people literally denied and ignored health problems in twi. Once they got out of twi, suddenly they were sick. They even thought that the prediction of bad things happening because they left twi was truth. Until they realized that they were sick in twi but just denied and ignored it all. And I see that those of us who simply jump on the next bandwagon that beats a similar drum as twi's don't change out of the cult mentality. I can say "us" because I went there and did that...so I'm not judging anybody.

I have often wondered if twi shrank... Or if twi simply got more spread out. Kinda like a dandelion seed head: a good wind will spread that seed far and wide. Isn't it just the same thing in different clothing if twi material is taught?

" so they just tiptoed through the tulips of Way land, all the while IGNORING Craig and just doing there own thing" You said a mouthful there! One of the most astonishing things I discovered once I was out (physically) was that not many people I knew actually followed in twi. Those of us who did, well...what happened is here on these boards. So...maybe...just maybe...the key to staying in twi is to IGNORE twi.

The Way International of course messed in my marriages...BIG TIME...but those are long stories...and not ones I'm ready to tell yet...not quite... But the very first thing that came to my mind when I read this thread was my relationship with Mo/Templelady. My family needed a place to live. Our branch leader got together with the limb leader and it was decided that since Mo's family needed help with daycare and housework, me and my daughter would move in with Mo's family of 5. Into a 2 bedroom apartment. Now this isn't the story twi told Mo, mind you. The whole time we lived together, twi (via twig leaders and branch leaders) played Mo and I against one another, creating drama if there was none, pointing fingers when the drama was at its height, shunning the both of us, putting pressure on our husbands if we got too out of line. I had no clue that was what was happening at the time. Well, let me put it another way...I did not perceive twi to be doing anything wrong. I bought into twi's take on my life, my personality, my spiritual state/standing, my husband, my daughter and basically my whole world. I was a piece of s**t and that was that...if bad things happened in my life, well, what else could be expected from the s**t pile? Why did twi do this? To cover up a pedophile ring being operated out of the branch home. And other sordid and felonious activities. How would me and Mo living together, and keeping me and Mo pitted against each other, help cover up such things? First, both of us being in the same house under the scrutiny of her husband meant that twi could keep a close eye on us. Second, as long as me and Mo did not make friends and compare notes, the sordid and felonious activities were kept swathed in smoke and mirrors. This is very hard for me to talk about. It wasn't until WayDale when me and Mo could finally compare notes that all this came together for me. The moral of this story: If twi is fiddling in any relationship you have, you can bet your sweet bippy that twi is doing so to cover up something...

I've loved this story for years. I agree...thank you for posting it. :) Have you ever read The Healing Poison? (You probably have since I've posted it here before. LOL) The Healing Poison A long time ago, a girl named Li-Li got married and went to live with her husband and mother-in-law. In a very short time, Li-Li found that she couldn't get along with her mother-in-law at all. Their personalities were very different, and Li-Li was angered by many of her mother-in-law's habits. In addition, she criticized Li-Li constantly. Days passed days, and weeks passed weeks. Li-Li and her other-in-law never stopped arguing and fighting. But what made the situation even worse was that, according to ancient Chinese tradition, Li-Li had to bow to her mother-in-law and obey her every wish. All the anger and unhappiness in the house was causing the poor husband great distress. Finally, Li-Li could not stand her mother-in-law's bad temper and dictatorship any longer, and she decided to do something about it. Li-Li went to see her father's good friend, Mr. Huang, who sold herbs. She told him the situation and asked if he would give her some poison so that she could solve the problem once and for all. Mr. Huang thought for a while, and finally said, Li-Li, I will help you solve your problem, but you must listen to me and obey what I tell you. Li-Li said, "Yes, Mr. Huang, I will do whatever you tell me to do." Mr. Huang went into the back room, and returned in a few minutes with a package of herbs. He told Li-Li, "You can't use a quick-acting poison to get rid of your mother-in-law, because that would cause people to become suspicious. Therefore, I have given you a number of herbs that will slowly build up poison in her body. Every other day prepare some pork or chicken and put a little of these herbs in her serving. Now, in order to make sure that nobody suspects you when she dies, you must be very careful to act very friendly towards her. Don't argue with her, obey her every wish, and treat her like a queen." Li-Li was so happy. She thanked Mr. Huang and hurried home to start her plot of murdering her mother-in-law. Weeks went by, and months went by, and every other day, Li-Li served the specially treated food to her mother-in-law. She remembered what Mr. Huang had said about avoiding suspicion, so she controlled her temper, obeyed her mother-in-law and treated her like her own mother. After six months had passed, the whole household had changed. Li-Li had practiced controlling her temper so much that she found that she almost never got mad or upset. She hadn't had an argument in six months with her mother-in-law, who now seemed much kinder and easier to get along with. The mother-in-law's attitude toward Li-Li has also changed, and she began to love Li-Li like her own daughter. She kept telling friends and relatives that Li-Li was the best daughter-in-law one could ever find. Li-Li and her mother-in-law were now treating each other like a real mother and daughter. Li-Li's husband was very happy to see what was happening. One day, Li-Li came to see Mr. Huang and asked for his help again. She said, "Dear Mr Huang, please help me to keep the poison from killing my mother-in-law! She has changed into such a nice woman, and I love her like my own mother. I do not want her to die because of the poison I gave her." Mr. Huang smiled and nodded his head. "Li-Li, there's nothing to worry about. I never gave you any poison. The herbs I gave you were vitamins to improve her health. The only poison was in your mind and your attitude toward her, but that has been all washed away by the love which you gave to her."

Not just any old prisoner gets to go out on work release. The prison nut nut case wouldn't, for sure. That being said, johniam...is there something you haven't told us...? (I'm teasing ya.) Part of the insanity of my childhood was to tell us kids that we'd go to jail if we didn't behave...and they'd drive us by the juvenile facilities and show us exactly what they meant...and that they'd actually do it. Once my grandmother even put me out of the car in front of the place for girls and left me standing there to 'think about' what I'd done. We had no doubt in our minds that every time we heard a siren, they were coming after us for something we thought we got away with doing. It was very frightening. I totally understand the concern here about what one might tell one's children after coming upon a chain gang. A parent or other adult in such a situation would hopefully say something like, "The people you see out there are in jail because they did things to other people like hurt them or steal from them. Some of them do things like sell drugs to children. People like you and I don't have to worry about going to jail because we would never do such things. That's why Mommy and Daddy teach you right from wrong." Children are easy, really...if you trust how you're raising them. :) And I agree with Abi...it's a good object lesson. Children do need to know these things...and they need to understand that there are consequences for certain actions even for adults...as much as they need to understand there are rewards for certain other actions even for adults. Our job as parents is to raise our children to be prepared to be adults. If children don't see and grasp how things work for adults, they tend to think, "I can't wait until I'm grown up so I can do whatever I please!" And although they may never consider robbery or murder or dope pedaling as an option, they may meet folks along their path who would or have...and if it's at a particularly vulnerable place in their lives, they may not be equipped to handle such a situation if they don't know about and at least partially grasp adult realities before they face adult situations.