GarthP2000

... the turkey's gonna be a sopping wet, and stuffing should be everywhere, ... ... but Thanksgiving should be fine. Hhmmmmmm, .... Was it GeorgeStGeorge's .... believing?? ((ducking))

Hills (long time dude :)) You're correct, I wager. I just didn't want Ron to miss it. B)

Ron, (branching off from 'Just Some Quotes') I love it when folks pull the 'they have an agenda' argument, as it's often thrown about in a desperate attempt to play down/dismiss any opposing argument that is shown to prove effective. Of course they have an 'agenda'. So do I. ... So do you, hmmmm? ;) Also keep in mind that just because someone 'has an agenda' doesn't sutomatically disqualify their point offhand, and that people who try to get as much mileage out of the 'he has an agenda' routine are usually intellectually dishonest and/or mentally bankrupt, particularly when they won't hold themselves to the same 'standard'. Actually, they have more to do with the founding of the nation, particularly the ones where the fathers _aren't_ speaking to the crowd, but are part of what they actually believe in, often (but not always) found in personal letters, letters that at the time aren't subject to public scrutiny, and would thus cost them an election or two. Looked, and haven't found it. Sorry Charlie. On the contrary, the quote was of a dubious source, and was seized upon by the likes of David Barton (Yet Another With an 'Aganda' ;)) and was used enthusiastically to show all that this country was indeed a 'Christian nation'. Upon continued scrutiny and questioning did Barton admit that the quote was undocumented. Honest as George Washington, huh? Interesting as this central point wasn't dealt with nor made an important point in the writing of the Constitution, and it was only addressed once in the Declaration of Independance ("We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men was endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights"), and that was put in there by Thomas Jefferson, and his God wasn't of the Judaeo-Christian variety. He was Deist. Ie., 'nature's God', an impersonal 'creative force' as it were who made the earth and then stepped back and let it go its way. His theology has more in common with a 'tree hugging' environmentalists than with a lot of orthodox churches. Also, there have been many back then who helped start this country who believed (and still do, me being among them) that the rights that are an intrinsic part of every human being don't have to be 'ordained' or bequeathed by some power, be it by God, or by the State; you made that distinction (and it shows in your clear demarcation as 'Socialism' being on the side of 'the State'. Believe me Ron, the Church can be (and often has been) just as statist as any Stalin hugging Socialist/Communist. Also keep in mind that Socialism deals with an economic model. ... and they are _still_ amendments to the Constitution, no more and no less than all the other amendments which are just as inviolate. :) Our country's founding has to do with many a reason, but one of the biggest and most foundational reasons is freedom of religion/conscience/opinion. And whatever our founding father's personal religious beliefs were, they (most of them anyway) realized, from having seen for themselves what the mixture of church and state resulted in Europe, and that to ensure that freedom, they made a clear distinction and demarcation between church and state, and embedded that into the Constitution. Ie., the Constitution makes NO provision to include 'God in the public square', as in Europe, God (via 'The Orthodox Church') was _already_ in the public square, and a lot of good that did, considering what/how/why human beings imparted 'God's Laws' to its citizenry, especially to those who weren't of the 'Right Church'. Then explain to me please why the whole range of people fighting for the separation of church and state go all the way from left wing Socialist to right wing Libertarian to tail feathers Green Party? :) So Ron, spare me the "It's all coming from the Big Bad Socialist Left" routine please. It gets old. One can have 'unalienable rights' w/o having a God in the mixture (Hhmmmm. Interesting that the Declaration of Independence that that phrase appears in was juxtaposed against a country that wasn't 'atheist' at all, and also acknowledged God as the source of all rights: Merry Ol' England! ). And it doesn't require a God for people to be against 'socialist economic and social mechanisms'. Plenty of Libertarian atheists around to prove that point. Thus the effect of the separation between church and state. Like how can they separate men from God in the first place, hmmmm? Also see what I said above re: the mindless coupling of atheists/socialists. Same applies to including the ACLU as well.

Ron, My post here went into an entirely new topic area, and it would've derailed this thread, so I'm starting a new thread. See ya there Ron. :)

I was watching Shrek the other day, and I found out the Shrek way of making candles that might come in handy ..... ..... by pulling wax out of his ear and making a candle out of it. :o :blink: Wooo wooo!

Ron, OK! :) Link that shows the quote to be undocumentedHere's another well known, yet erroneous quote thats bandied about by those who think that this country was founded on the Bible: Link that shows the quote to be undocumented as well Also, look at this one: The fundamental basis for Moses Law is "I am the Lord Thy God". That _alone_ disqualifies the Constitution, particularly when you consider the 1st Amendment (ie., "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion, nor shall prohibit the free exercise thereof".), from being based on the Law of Moses. Same principle applies to the bill of rights as not being based upon "teaching we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul". If anything, the entire document of the Constitution is based upon the ideals and principles of the Enlightenment period, much of which had conflict with the Bible, the church, and religion in many respects. Do an indepth study of that period to see what I mean. Snopes has a really good section dealing with this very topic. P.S., Ooopsie! I gave 3 examples instead of one. My bad. ;)

Lifted, Rather inspiring set of quotes you have there. Too bad the ones dealing with the 'Christian basis' of this country are historically flawed/inaccurate. But, to each his own.

... kinda similar to what George Carlin said. Bravo!

"In the abundance of words there lacketh not sin"? ;)

(Here we go again) 10 will get your one that he actually plants a time and day in his 'prophecy', ... THEN when that fails to occur as scheduled, comes up with some ultra-lame excuse as to why it didn't occur, or it'll occur at some other date, we just read it wrong or used the wrong calender, ... etc., etc., ad nauseum. Count on it.

Since it won't die, might as well call it the THE cone. All hail THE!

Ron, That's not heaven! Besides, that's one helluva threat right there! .... ((shudder)) The horror! The horror! :o :blink: Coolchef, I can relate. Boy, can I ever! B)

You bet your bottom dollar she'll keep it. Folks like that become 'tolerant' of new agers and other 'infidels' like you wouldn't believe when it comes to accepting ca$h from them. ... then they go back to damning the unbelievers to hell!

Mark, Based on how rabid some of the more militant anti-abortionists can be, don't count that tactic out.

I just became one. Thanks mucho, as it just might help me furnish my new apartment in Huntsville sooner than I thought, Great resource. B)

"We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto!" To which I can now say "Amen to that sister!"

like the song sez, "You may check out any time, but you may never leave!" MUWAHAhahahahahahahahhahaaha........

Just goes to show why more effort and resources are needed to combat Alzhiemer's. Robertson is a classic example of the advanced stages. :wacko:

... 3 guesses as to where that 50 lbs comes from.

(quoted from the link that Oldies provided) Just *gotta* have their widespread and yet undocumented and unverified conspiracy theories, don't they. As they *still* won't let the Kennedy assassination go. There will always be the missing 'unknown man in the grassy knoll' it seems; always a suspicious possibility (as anything can theoretically be), and yet with no conclusive evidence required to make a rational deliberation and judgement. Does make for good D-rated TV 'mockumentaries' tho'. ... Brought to you by the best seller, "None Dare Call It Conspiracy!" and by National Enquirer, the magazine that brought you 'Bat boy'.

Careful George. Some folks might take that the wrong way and add that to the "Multiculturalism is why Paris is burning" argument. ;)

No, no, no! ... You hold up the guy for his beer, not the other way around.

I imagine that we will indeed. ;)

But ONLY good quality American beer, like Moosehead. ..... Waittaminute, that's a Canadian brand. :blink: ... well, just as long as it ain't Coor's. That's known as Kansas Colored Water to the rest of the country. (P.S., I love these new smilies, Paw!)

UNDER $2.00?!?!? For real?! Finally! :D