GarthP2000

"contraindicate? :)

Frankly, I think that sexual abuses of the flock by ministers like this transcend theological 'party lines', as it were, be the theology orthodox or heretical. Basically the thing that encourages this kind of behavior is when said minister gets it inside of his slimy skull that he can use God and the 'authority' therewith to his advantage. Particularly when its often commonly held that naysaying and defying the minister is a big no-no, especially if he's a popular one, held in high esteem by society. And I know the area in Atlanta too. Been by there a few times.

"Lt. Worf, stand down from Red Alert." "But Captain, these are dishonorable Romulans! Permission to unleash photon torpedo array?" "Permission denied, Lt. Worf! Stand down, or be demoted off of the bridge!!" ((grumbling Klingon curses)) "Yes Captain." Live Long, and Prosper! Mark, I can imagine. What with certain Primitive Baptist individuals believing that Catholics are the anti-Christ, ... yup. I can feel for ya. Peace to you too.

ok thanks. Basically, it isn't just me that I refer to when talking about R/W persecution; actually, I been thru rather little, as it were. But I know of others, friends of mine, who have gone thru the aforementioned crap, and, knowing human nature as I do in my past 50+ years of life, I am sometimes apprehensive about becoming a target myself. Cripes-on-a-crutch, and here in America too! :blink: And some of the current news that is happening right now isn't too encouraging either in that regard.

Ok Mark. Very good point taken. Maureen, I withdraw how I stated my recent statements. You see it your way, and I see it mine. Peace to you and yours. ((powering down phasers and photon torpedoes, and lowering shields)) P.S., Mark, what is 'R/W'? I must admit I'm not up on my abbreviative alphabet.

So let me get this straight. God sets up rules for us to live by, moral rules, rules and principles that are moral in and of themselves; to murder or kill an innocent life is immoral in and of itself, to use one example. Yet because He is God (and don't forget, a God that is said to be *perfect*, and can do no immoral wrong that we humans often do), He can do these selfsame immoral wrongs, and they aren't regarded as immoral wrongs when He does them, and there is no contradiction with any of that, ... and you're OK with that? ... All because He's God? ... And that makes Him perfect and all? ........ ((shaking my head)) ... I'm sorry, but something just isn't quite right with this picture that I can see. For basically if I am told to worship and follow a Perfect GOD who is better and more moral than I am, I don't think that its too heinously unreasonable of me to expect that He actually lives accordingly. ... Kinda like what we would now expect out of any kind of spiritual leaders, like ministers, preachers, and cornfield 'men-of-God'. Ya think? And yes, I would say that to not see the contradiction IS less astute. Very much so. And remember, I used to believe much the same way as you do now re: this. Used to. As in past tense. ... As in, I'm free from that now. P.S., Before you go about being greatly offended by being referred to as less astute, remember that at least you aren't referred to as less than a moral human being like an atheist is often referred to, even here on this board. You don't have to get your car keyed or have angry religious people get in your face, and tell you that you are going to hell for not believing. Or worse. You try going around telling people that you don't believe in God, and see how far that gets you. Hell, Sudo is an atheist in a rather liberal church, and he keeps mum about it. Uhh, what does that tell you, hmmm? So again I say, you don't get it. Peace.

"And this continued by THE space of two years..." It's been well over 2 years, ... and THE still isn't a greasespot.

Well, I guess THE *has* to be omnipotent ... especially to have a hand that size hovering over the earth. :blink: :)

Nope, you don't. Here's why: 1) "that somehow or other, that you can't explain, something came out of nothing and here we are." Not quite, and that line is so over-simplified that it lacks any real meaning. 2) "You go on to complain that My God does not fit in your parameters as to how He should behave and demand that He must fit in your parameters in order to either a- exist or b- be worthy of worship." Note something here, folks. Note that she doesn't put it as "You go on to complain that My God kills unbelievers/innocent children/others at His whim, and that He ought to behave according to His own standards that He expects of us, in order to either a- exist or b- be worthy of worship." See, THAT would be directly addressing the specific point that I and others have brought up. No, the response is blurred and put in a way that makes the complaint sound unreasonable and insignificant, coming from a selfish individual, and not from someone who would naturally and reasonable pull away from a god who does things that, if a human being did them, he would be punished as tho' he did a capital crime. Yet God is shown to be doing these same things, and the moral standard changes. In the *real* world, that is called hypocritical. Apparently, in Templelady's world, it isn't. <_< 3) "therefore you can't accept that he a- has the right to lay down rules b- demand that His creations follow them. Much less that failure to follow said rules results in very unpleasant consequences" If it were simply a case of a Superior and Moral Being laying down rules, that is one thing, particularly if that selfsame Being has the integrity and honor to *follow His own moral rules*. But it becomes quite another when this same deity becomes 'above the law' as it were, and does those things that we aren't allowed to do. It is these things, my dear Mo, that 'goes outside of my parameters', as it were. So no, you don't get it. B)

Whatever he does, DO NOT say that the woman's legs contain more FAT than the chicken legs.

.... otherwise known as surface erosion, hmmm?

But that smiting is what this selfsame loving God of yours does. And its portrayed as an extreme form of jealousy. "I am a jealous God, visiting the afflictions to the 3rd and 4th generations" of those that do the selfsame worshipping of other gods. Or, using the parent to child scenario often used here, if your child wants to view someone else as their 'parent', you'd no doubt be quite upset and angry. But would you view it an action of a righteous parent to hurt, kill, or otherwise seriously afflict your child because of this? ... I seriously doubt it, as for one thing, that would make you an abusive parent. And yet how many times has God been shown to be an abusive parent on steroids by many of the things that he is said to do, and many whitewash/make excuses for those kinds of activities? By the way, since the worship of other gods is at the TOP of things not to do, and it makes it OK for other people to be smitten/destroyed simply because they don't worship the right God (after all, why have a God if he isn't to be worshipped), ... ... based on all the above, I wonder how is it that people can call America God's Country when it, by law (via the Constitution, that is), allows, nay legally protects, the freedom to do the aforementioned taboo, ie., worship (or not) any god you choose? :blink: But seriously, why would what you said about God smiting those who don't worship him be a spiritually and morally valid thing to do? Maybe that's but one of the big things that results in more and more of us 'infidels' going "Wait a minute! ... Something is just quite right with this picture here ....." :unsure:

... and whitewash it all by feeling that God is on your side. <_<

Is it me, or is the content factor of this L-O-N-G running thread finally coming to a halt? :blink:

Now, now Houston, don't hold back. Tell us how you truly feel!

And this is specified ... where? In what way were they doing acts contrary to the Will of God, other than occupying the same land that Isreal wanted back then? Is that it? "Move out from this land, or God will have you smitten for defying His Will? Hell, since you worship other gods than we do, we'll smite you anyway!" (What if it were your land?) And what does this example have anything to do with doing the right and moral thing as God supposedly expects of us? Except as an attempt (and a rather poor one at that) to explain away/whitewash an otherwise clearly horrific example of how to treat people in a moral way?

Sez you! Why can't others post here, whether they believe in demons or not? Why is it that when someone says that they don't believe in them, YOU say that the thread is done with? You just can't deal with dissenting statements of unbelief w/o feeling persecuted about it?

"How do you unring that bell"? Kinda like when you finally find out that there never was a Santa Claus. How do you unring that bell, indeed.

... just one example????? Chief, you have GOT to get over yourself. Who said that I was directing what I said ONLY to you? And who says that if I don't 'believe in the spiritual', then why should I post? And yet you act as if I am trying to shut YOU up?? :huh: I do no such thing. All I'm doing is responding to the question posed in itself. And that does *nothing* to stop others from posting their opinion. Nothing! You don't like me posting? Tough! By the way, a large part of your problem with my posts, is that you don't read what I wrote, you read into them. Of that, I am sure. ... I got a tip for you. Read what people *actually* write, and go from there. I stand by what I say.

hehehehe That avatar is evidently THE finally reaching his breaking point with us critters here up on earth. :o :blink: :o

Let's try this again. That's not what I said. Notice that I didn't focus exclusively on TWI, as for one thing TWI isn't the only only who rants on about 'demons', 'devils', and the like. Plus I am speaking about/from my own observations/experiences about what I see regarding this area, and have done nothing to keep anyone from 'having a chance' to break out of any shell. A mental health professional deals with the mental side of things. A clerical professional deals with the spiritual side of things. And the difference between you and I is what either one of us accepts/rejects as spiritual. I just happen to reject the spiritual in regards to demons and the like. Definitely wrong. As how does dismissing the 'demon haunted' world line up with TWI, hmmmm? Answer: it doesn't. Yeah, well you aren't the only one here who's reading these posts, and from what I see from the beginning post, it was addressed to anybody to respond. Thank you.

Face it, Ron. (Emperor Palpatine voiceover) You cannot resist. You will turn to the Dark Side. It ... is ..... inevitable MWUHAhahahahahahahahhaha ..... (Evil Star Wars Music fades into the background)

Uh ohh! Now ya gone and done it! You're feeding the Smikeol troll Yet Again. :o

Ohhh, how about: 1) chemical imbalances in the brain that effect behavior in an unhealthy way. 2) psychological imbalances/disturbances/reactions brought on by extreme and/or abusive external behaviors by others. 3) various other disturbances of the mind including the above, and including other items that bring about mental illness, or makes the mind sick. 4) but does NOT include the various 'demonic influences' that have been since disproven by the above descriptions. (Now I would trust any descriptions from the above rather than some Mickey Mouse exorcist/spiritualist/advanced class grad any day. And this is after years of listening to & believing the aforementioned *crap* that comes from the 'demon haunted' world. Especially after reading/seeing/hearing all the ridiculous results, and of course abuse that often happens to people, to where I said 'Enough!', and threw that all down the proverbial toilet.) For a more professional opinion, which goes beyond what either I OR you OR any exorcist has to offer, see a psychologist/psychiatrist/mental health professional. ... And I do say that w/o any animosity at all.

I do, and its a heckuva lot better than that Advante browser that tried to offer a multi-tabbed version of Internet Explorer. Can't wait to see what version 7 of IE amounts to though.