GarthP2000

........ Damnit!! ... Now I gotta wipe off all this coffee I got all over my computer screen!!

I understand. But you kept bringing in this concept of certain areas in public life where government participation is supposedly scripturally prohibited from getting involved in. Providing for the poor, etc. And it is that that I wanted documented.Overall, arguments from both sides of the political aisle have been given which endeavor to provide biblical backing as to why their side is more spiritual/Christian based. Arguments that exceed your debating abilities. And from people who believe 100% why theirs is true. And which provide Yet Another Reason for the need for the separation of church and state, as each group/church/religion wants their side to be represented in government policy and law, and will give no quarter to any other side, particularly those who don't believe the way they do. Interesting. V-e-r-y interesting. (And quite revealing) <_< You speak of a spiritually minded Christian looking to be under a 'Kingdom' as the preferred form of rule, and yet, how many American Christians go on and on about how our country is a Christian one, and that our representative form of government is a Christian one (or is based on Christian principles). Well, which is it? Which form of government is based on Christian/biblical principles? A democratically elected representative form of government, or a monarchy/kingdom form of government? (And no, a constitutional monarchy like the U.K. isn't what I'm referring to.) The two are distinct from each other, both in basis for authority, and in function. Maybe you prefer a kingdom as a form of government here on earth, but there are a hell of a lot of other people (including many Christians I wager, 'spiritually minded' or not) who would feel otherwise, and would prefer a democratically elected representative form of government. And you know, what you are posting here clearly illustrates Yet Another Big Reason why I walked away from the religious, 'spiritually minded' world. ... And I have no regrets at doing so either.

Greek2me, But you see, chief, it is _you_ who are making the claim of scriptural authenticity/Christian basis for your political theory, not me. My challenge was just to have you document it. Me? I'm done trying to validate political truths/concepts from a 'does the bible say its OK' standpoint. If I didn't, maybe I'd have reason to still call for some of the (now outrageous) OT laws to still be on the books. So perhaps that fact that they don't require stoning for the punishment of crimes ranging from blasphemy to homosexuality to working on the Sabbath should actually put us all at ease, y'think? <_< But seriously, it absolutely amazes me how many political concepts ('principles' according to some) people claim rigorously that are clearly straight from the scriptures, and yet when you actually look, whatever verses back up their Grande Principles are either scant and/or ripped right out of context, ... either that, or are concepts that have lloonngg been outdated (the stoning illustration I just gave, hmmmm?) And all that they have done with the kind of ((cough)) 'biblical research' ((HURL)) that would make VPW look good by comparison. Damn good! I've seen this kind of dishonesty every which way but loose when it was/is claimed that America is based on Christianity and was/is supposed to be a Christian nation with Christian laws for Christian purposes; kind of a New Testament version of the Old Testament Isreal so to speak. One example of this is where they take the phrase 'nature's God' out of the Declaration of Independence, and try to extrapolate that, with all kinds of mental gymnastics to boot, as proof as to why it is the Christian God they are talking about. If they only realized what Thomas Jefferson's (the author of that document) Deistic beliefs were all about, they would freak. :o :blink: And no Virginia, Deism is not another form of Christianity, not according to the orthodox definition in any event.

Now there is one helluva indictment if there ever was one. "I don't want to change". <_<

..... and the beat goes on ... (doooo do do do) ... and the beat goes on, ............................

Greek, You keep bringing up this claim of government being specifically forbidden from providing charitable provisions and other like support to its citizens as from a Godly/biblical standpoint. Can you clearly document/illustrate where this prohibition is shown in the scriptures? I too, when I was in TWI and in later years as a believer held to this view as well. It was just as time went on, I failed to see where in the Bible this was clearly illustrated/required. (Although now I have gotten beyond the "If it is Written in the Holy Writ, it must be Accepted as True" mentality.) Oh, and I want to see the scriptures themselves where they clearly indicate this, please. Your interpretation alone doesn't suffice. Sorry. Then again, a Kingdom and a King of kings is hardly democratic either (or of a republican form of government, for those here who get their panties in a knot over the word 'democratic'). As I heard someone once say "When Jesus comes back, will He hold elections?", clearly indicating that Jesus' government won't be of the representative form of government variety. Ie., no constitution. Me? I'd rather go for the representative form of government with a solid wall between church and state, thank you very much. ... But that topic is another dollar for another day, I imagine.

Man, I sure would hate to get the heating bill for that place.

Man, this brings back memories when I was in grade school, and I would write on these yellow pieces of paper with the little lines that were about a half an inch apart with my Number 2 pencil. .... what was the topic again?

..... and can you imagine this kind of exclusive attitude being touted as a part of the 'Christian values and principles' as the basis for American politics? And this same kind of attitude being integrated into governmental functions as a result? Can you say ... 'Discrimination'?

Is it me, or does Chloe seem to have had that pouty face made surgically permanent?? :blink: I mean, has she _ever_ smiled? Once?? Hell, Nixon was more cheerful than she is!

Maybe a good number of Wiccans aren't so concerned with making it "all Bush's fault" (presenting a good possibility of a false dilemna here, y'think?). Perhaps they just want to be treated on an equal footing along with everybody else. And I believe that they wanted that long before the presidency was a gleam in Dubya's eye. Also keep in mind that a good number of Christians (especially the staunch conservative ones) freak out over the witchcraft issue, particularly among those who overfocus on the so-called 'demons' therewith. Hell, when you still have not a few who still get bent out of shape as regards the fictional character Harry Potter ..... ?? <_<

Hey Allan, If you're gonna use swear words around here, use the Official American © English version please. You wouldn't want to run the risk of us thinking that you were some sort of illegal alien now, do you?

You know, I find it interesting that individuals who voice what this article on non-rights communicate are usually the ones who spout off on who is 'the Government' to give (and thus take away) rights. And yet, here they are, doing the same damn thing. .... <_< Coolwaters, Usually, with stuff like this, ignorance (which, in this case, is undoubtedly of the deliberate variety) usually leads to hate. Or to at least stupidity, in any event.

Ever notice how on '24', since each minute is covered, ..... how _nobody_ is shown going to the can? No wonder they're so tense!

Belle, That last pic of Yoda looks like he's saying: "About my age, you will ask NOT! ... Look as good at my age you will not!"

So how old are ya now?? ((ducking and running))

ROFLMAO!!

I agree with Raf on this one. Seems like M.D. Vaden has this fetish for guilt tripping. And a rather novel way of doing the diminishing/downplaying/"I'm sick and tired of reading about VPW's abuses" song-and-dance. Don't want to read about them? ... I got a radical idea dude. Don't read them! <_< Christmas! You'd think that the VeePee & Me people would do something more productive with their time. ..... Like playing Window's Solitaire or something.

This reminds me of something I heard long ago: "Yours is not to question why. Your's is but to do or die." According to quite a number of fundamental religious teachings, that's what it seems to boil down to. Obedience. ... Don't aggressively question what you're told to believe or do, at least not to challenge the veracity of it. ... We are the Lord's servents. ... We are lowly sinners, so who are we to question The Almighty. ..... and so forth, ad nauseum. <_< People have been putting up with this garbage for hundreds and hundreds of years. Now, in the past 150-200 years or so, more and more folks have been pulling away from that kind of mentality in one form or another (The Enlightenment, different schools of political/economic/social thought throughout history, etc.), and some how some folks have seen the need for 'revivals' and such because of this. And so this continuing to break away continues, much to the chagrin of the staunchly religious. ... Which I see as a good sign. :)

((smokin' a foot long doobie)) "Ohhh WOW maaa-nn! That was some wild trip, dude! ... Especially with the boat turning into a station wagon part. ... Too bad it didn't turn into a VW micro-love-bus, on its way to Woodstock. ... Now THAT would've been really **groovy**!!" ((takes another hit from the doobie))

A wedding I saw might not be the wedding from hell, but it was sure a $pricey$ one. It was held at the Atlanta Botanical Gardens, and everybody was showing up in stretch limos, dressed to the *max* (guys in expensive tuxedos, and ladies in long dresses). But what made it stand out to me was for the music. Instead of an organ or piano, there was a full blown orchestra, complete with enough of the full compliment of musical instruments to do a classical production at a concert hall. :o I hate to see the price tag on THAT one. (((shudders))) :ph34r: I hope the couple are still together. I imagine that whoever sprung for this would *make* them stay together. ... Talk about your 'shotgun weddings'. :blink:

All this reminds me of that line that Arsenio Hall once said: "Cleveland -- the Mistake by the Lake!" ((ducking and running))

What?? ..... No pineapple to go with the meat???

Also notice how CK uses "Thank God for the age of grace" as a clear illustration that he doesn't want to be held accountable for his actions. Like hiding behind grace like a little cowardly boy hiding behind his mama's skirt. Seems that this is what the 'grace of God' amounts to for a certain number of people. Something to hide behind so they don't have to answer for what they do.

Ya know, you could get some serious mental damage for smoking stuff that strong, ... really you could. :wacko: