GarthP2000

Little minkey (djs) sez, Yeah, right! Like pointing out the fraud, manipulations, sexual abuse, vicious intimidations, etc., etc., by VPW, LCM, many goosestepping Way Corp and other leaders, ... is our way of not making sense. <_< Ie., they are daring, after years of fearful silence, daring to speak up about all the garbage that went on in TWI, and little minkey here is getting his cute cap out of place about it. Minkey has a special angst towards Wordwolf because of WW's rather effective and very informative approach of stripping off all the dogmatic/practical flaws of TWI for all to see. In other words, djs is finally finding out that TWI wasn't that Great Vehicle of God's Word that he always believed it to be. ..... Guess what Virginia! No, there is no Santa Claus!

LG, You are partly correct. Altho' Cynic does advocate a stronger disclaimer rather than rejection, that isn't the whole of his argument, as the following remark of his shows: IF the folks at RTS are going to admit Schoenheit, they need AT THE VERY LEAST, to intensify their disclaimer. Ie., it's quite obvious that he doesn't want unitarians to be admitted to RTS, but if they are, yadayadayada. That 'strawman' you refer to, is but a rendering I make of someone who has a VERY strong aversion of unitarians or those who do not accept Christ's divinity, and who are public about saying so, and why. There are quite a number of people who have that rigid mindset. I, on the other hand, have come to see such arguments (and I see the pro-'biblical unitarian' argument, and the supposed importance of his non-divinity the same way, much to the chagrin of certain 'biblical unitarians') as being less and less important to the real scheme of things. They do nothing to solve real world problems, and have done nothing to help advance society. Like I said, its an argument that only concerns ecclesiastical, academic old farts (and their middle aged dweeb groupie rejects from TWI, ... hint hint). <_< And yes, its true that rejection from a private seminary does not in the real world equate to the barring kids from public schools based on racial grounds. If you read my first usage of it, it was meant as a satirical jab likening his stance to Wallace's from a humorous standpoint. He was the one to took that ball and ran with it beyond its scope.

Abigail, It seems your model of evolutionary change (for the better, no doubt) might have a few throwbacks in it. Ie., examples of certain factions of various religions (sometimes known as staunch fundamentalists) who seem to be resisting said evolutionary change. I think VPW's TWI was a classic case of one of them. Overall change in any group of people usually will incur various (to use a term I saw elsewhere on this board ;) ) 'hacks' to fight the change, no matter how ludicrous their reasoning for doing so. And I think that fear is at the basis of this resistance.

Cynic, If Schoenheit were training to be a minister affiliated with the denomination/church of said school, your supposed argument of the discrimination being justified would have merit. Ie., the denomination would be well within its ethical (and legal) rights to keep him from attenting training for that specific position. However, since he is (or was) taking courses and attaining for the degree for more general purposes such as academic achievement and the like, they would have no bearing (ethical and quite possibly legal; consult with your attorney for more details) to prohibit him from doing so, or of even requiring him to come forward with his unitarian/socinian beliefs. Thus my snide comparison with the discrimination of blacks in the past, (a snide remark which Cynic (again) tries to make bigger than it really is). And since they have no bearing nor right to keep Mr. Schoenheit from accomplishing his doctorate, the complaint against said discrimination still stands. (Cynics' desperate attempt to still raise an old, and long dead, argument about "Baptist lynchings" notwithstanding.) Grow up. There are far more important issues in real life than the 1600+ year old trinitarian/unitarian argument, an argument that only concerns ecclesiastical, academic old farts (and their middle aged dweeb groupie rejects from TWI, ... hint hint) who think of themselves as 'biblical scholars' because of it. <_<

MarkO, Here's another 'question of the hour' for you to mentally munch on. Since when was unorthodoxy necessarily identical/tied in with 'pseudo-intellectualism' or being 'theologically bankrupt'; ie., in being in all forms dishonest. Yes, yes, I know, orthodoxy is rendered as THE final and official version of what (in this case) Christian theology is all about, but when were things unorthodox necessarily pseudo, dishonest, or false? Hint: Simple and devoted loyalty to one's denomination doesn't suffice for an answer. Sorry. I think its rather obvious that Weirwille was a fraud for a lot more real reasons than that he was unorthodox, don't you think?

Hhmmmm, I've noticed that you put this in Just Plain Silly. Hhmmmmmmm! :unsure:

Awww, why not just ban them from entering the seminary, ... George Wallace style? You know, standing at the entrance of the college and forbidding them to enter? Really bites you in the foot that there is a Unitarian/Socinian student getting a theology degree from a 'Reformed' (yeah! <_< ) college/university, doesn't it, Cynic? Schoenheit is minding his own business and getting his degree, and here you are getting your panties in a knot about it, ... and they are being polemic? Yeah, yeah, I know. "There goes the neighborhood!" ... Famous last words, ehh? Ever the laugh-a-minute you are.

When I was last involved with the CES group, I heard that John Schoenheit was working on his Doctorate of Divinity degree.

A classic fact that is lost on a good many 'spiritual' people, who often make the mistake that if its simple, then it must be true. Ie., it relieves them of the burden of thinking. <_<

Ya know, looking back, this concept of us being God's 'spoiled kids' is so disgusting. I mean, what is it about spoiled kids that is so 'godly' anyway. To other people, spoiled kids are usually resented, because they are spoiled and self-centered. Now TWI goes off and makes that self-centeredness and meaness as a 'godly' attribute. Go figure! <_<

Running out of tripods to mount his superior officer's AK-47, a soldier offers his 'crack' as a replacement, ... and it fits quite well. Just goes to show that there is some practical uses for the French asses.

Linda, Didn't say that it was, or that there weren't Christians who take a 'live and let live' attitude towards atheists. If you read what I wrote, I was referring to that minister who goes off and acts like Mel is being soooooo persecuted, and who often (and I bet you have seen this to be true more often than not) blame all the atheists/liberals/secularists/'Joooooooooos'(thanks MarkO, for this term, as its a riot :D)/other groups of people who don't fit in with his narrow and fundy world view. ... Besides, at one time, I've been there, done that, ... and burnt the stupid t-shirt! Basically the main reason why folks like that minister are gathering 'round Mel's wagon is largely because of The Passion of The Christ. Face it, Gibson 'bought his way into Heaven' as far as they're concerned because of the flick, and they're about ready to make him a Saint. If it were Micheal Moore making the anti-Jewish statements, his scathing condemnation would be on the lips of pundits ranging from Rush Limbaugh to Ann Coulter to Pat Robertson.

What? So we have to wait till 'Mad Max' joins the American Nazi Party, trashes a synagogue, kills quite a few of them "Joooooooooos", till we can righteously and roundly condemn him? Before it becomes appropriately 'balanced'? That article by that pastor is a total riot! And I'd be willing to bet even $$money$$ that if it were 'Hitlery' Clinton (or some other 'godless heathen') that made those remarks, he wouldn't be so whiney about them being 'crucified'. Far more likely would he be going "See?!? See?!? That's how those damn hypocritical liberals/atheists/(fill in your favorite 'Un-American' enemy here) are so anti-semitic, and hate Isreal!!" or something to that effect. Mel Gibson still has many supporters/apologists, many of them the same e-v-i-l 'liberal' producers/actors, and even a good number of them Jewish. So he isn't exactly going thru heinous persecution here, ... the wuss. <_<

... and maybe you'll be lucky enough to have the 'R' hurricane (if it ever gets to that many) named Rafael (or is it Rapheal :D ) Happy Birthday dude!!

Where's Waldo? ..... Hell, where's Mao?

So what about other people, both famous and non-famous, who have made anti-semetic comments, ... and were/are roundly condemned for them? They haven't made any pro-Christian films about Jesus. They haven't done any evangelical work for Christianity of this scope. ... So why the whining attitude re: "Well, he wouldn't be so persecuted if he didn't make 'Passion of the Christ'"? Yeah, yeah, yeah. ... Poor Mel. <_< The only 'lashing' he will receive is a fine for speeding and other traffic infractions, a round of talk show 'contritions', and back he goes to making millions--- errr, movies. We should have such problems.

Ya know, I wonder if all this whitewashing of 'Mad Max's' reputation would be so forthcoming and "but he's human and we are ALL *sinners*! ((sob))" and the like, ... if he put out flicks that were humanist, atheist, left-wing, Bush challenging (how about if it was Micheal Moore? Anybody??), and etc. ... Somehow I seriously doubt it. Hell, even a good number of the so-called 'left-leaning and Jewish' producers wouldn't initially jump on Gibson's case until that one writer exposed their hypocrisy in this situation. <_< And this was even considering his "Passion of the Christ" that many in Hollywood (supposedly, allegedly) hated. Many of them still stuck up for good ol' Mel.

.... great ingredients for a TV movie.

Cool tool. Thanks! :)

One of the reasons why Cingular's service went south like it did was because it was purchased by AT&T. A good friend of mine used to work for AT&T for about 30 years, and she told me, from experience, that in many respects, AT&Ts reputation as a corporation is quite pathetic. In how they deal with their employees, their customers, etc. Many years ago, AT&T was THE company to work for, and their customer service was top notch. Nowadays, all that is gone. Which is one reason why AT&T's profitibility and value as a company is in the toilet. <_<

I used a combination of flea bomb sprays, flea collars, and flea skin treatments for my 2 cats when they, and my apartment got infected about a month ago, and it worked. Frontline does work but it doesn't kill them all right away. as mentioned elsewhere on this thread, it takes time to break the cycle of the eggs, pupa, coccon-stage, and adult fleas. But it can be done. You just got to keep at it.

Tell me something George. Would you put all those who sincerely attempted to help others while they were in TWI in the same pile with the illustration of the molester? How about those individuals who took the same helpful approach towards you when you were in? Or were there none that behaved that way in your personal experience? Notice that I'm not coming from the theological/doctrinal angle, as I have given all that s**t up myself. But I personally knew a good number of people who helped a lot of people, TWI, the organization and the beliefs notwithstanding. But hey, that's me.

What's with all the *scary* pictures at the top of this section for? :blink: You trying to give some of us a heart attack?!? :ph34r: ..... C'mon! Show some decency here!

Hey George, How about seeing both points? 1) Our 'warm and fuzzy experiences', and 2) what VPW & Co. really turned out to be. Can't the human mind have the capacity to realize both here? And ya know, there are a LOT of folks here that do exactly that. Realize and detail both the good AND the bad. Now maybe there are the few who just cannot see the bad for the good, or vice-versa (Smikeol anyone?), but they are in the minority here.

Mark, As regards to this particular case (using the case-by-case basis so beautifully illustrated by Abigail; you know, use your *brains* to decide the merits of each case, instead of mindlessly parrotting some political party line, either side), I happen to think the state overreached themselves on this one. They didn't show where the kid's life was in clear cut danger if he went the alternative medicine route, and I think, in this case, that taking him from his parents is unnecessary strong arm tactics. They should let the kid back with his parents, and monitor his progress. But damn! Views expressed here that say otherwise constitute the Peoples Democratic Republic of Amerika? ... Or forced abortions? Like because they do that in China means that its ready to be done here? :unsure: