GarthP2000

Wait! Wait! I almost forgot a VERY IMPORTANT FEATURE of Greasespot!! What about THE?! What shall become of it?!

Cool!! Just in time too, as GS is gonna close down soon. ((snif)) I'm gonna miss you guyz!

Raf, is that last one where all of your stale jokes go? ... Ya know, http://www.twitter.com/ROLmeda?

... post it on Facebook?

Hey Paw, What are you going to do with the Way material?

Garth Patterson on Facebook as well. ... Facebook, my new online addiction. :blush:

Awww crap! Now who am I gonna pi** off? But seriously Paw, you have done a LOT of good for MANY people in far more ways than just letting them know about TWI, trust me on this. Far more than your detractors have any idea about. Hell, you sure as hell have provided FAR more help to all here than TWI ever did even on its best dayz, ... even _with_ it's 'god'. (I'd like to see any TWI apologists challenge _that_ one.) Ok, ok, I'll tone it down. But seriously, you done good, Pawtucket, you really have. :eusa_clap: This from one who is NOT a detractor. Great impersonation of Tricky Dick ya going there.

You don't mean ... Victor's Secret, ... do you? ;)

I heard that you earthlings have a custom of saying "Trick or Treat!" on this last day of October. ... Why are you reaching for your projectile weapon like that?!

Getting rid of ants naturally? One word. Anteaters

Nahh! Sh** happens to everybody, in one form or another. ... Why should it be regarded as an 'all powerful, invisible man in the sky' as something that makes your life hell, hmmm? People do a fine enough job at doing that all by themselves.

Same old, same old canard linking atheism and communism (or Marxism, collectivism, socialism, Nazism, etc. Take your pick of your favorite 'seed boy' philosophy that is s-o-o un-American, according to the Vicster. <_< ). I like the response by this particular 'collectivist'. :B)

My vote's for 'Chicken Shack Boogie'

SSSSHHHHHH!!! ... Quiet please! Let's not wake Smik--errr Mike up! Let sleeping dogs lie, ... or something like that.

Lindyhopper, :eusa_clap: Hit right on the nail! ... Thank you. You too Chockfull. :B)

((after I've calmed down a bit)) You might not like my form of delivery, and there are times that I do wear on people, ... but you got to admit that many of the points that I raised were some of the things how TWI have screwed up on the topic of forgiveness, both in practice, and (I'd be willing to wager) in the biblical context. So mainly, I've been 'pooping' on them, and those who behave similarly when it comes to using forgiveness in a demanding, controlling, and abusive manner. Peace? ... and if you don't want to 'forgive' me, that's ok too. Maybe even better, as I'm one who believes in being responsible for what I post anyway. ... No excuses. ((after I've calmed down a bit)) You might not like my form of delivery, and there are times that I do wear on people, ... but you got to admit that many of the points that I raised were some of the things how TWI have screwed up on the topic of forgiveness, both in practice, and (I'd be willing to wager) in the biblical context. So mainly, I've been 'pooping' on them, and those who behave similarly when it comes to using forgiveness in a demanding, controlling, and abusive manner. Peace? ... and if you don't want to 'forgive' me, that's ok too. Maybe even better, as I'm one who believes in being responsible for what I post anyway. ... No excuses.

That you did. First off, this is an open thread, not blocked off to anyone, or for that matter, to any exclusive topic. (You know how this happens all the time on boards like this.) Ie., anyone can chime in in regards to the forgiveness topic. Thank you. Two, I was chiming in with my thoughts as to forgiveness, in particular to how some people use and even misuse forgiveness as a tool to control and manipulate people, and (for bonus points) TWI was a classic example of how to do just that in so many ways. (Oh by the way, I wasn't the only one who broke the staying-on-topic rule in this thread.) And nowhere did I say that _you_ did. I think it has to do with something called 'if the shoes fits ...' or something like that. Again, me addressing the forgiveness issue, and how some people, like ((cough))TWI((cough)) can, and _have_ communicated the 'HAS to' characteristic. As a matter of fact, TWI wasn't the only group doing this form of manipulation. (Again, notice that I didn't mention you specifically.) And I clearly mentioned this ..... where? Next time you're gonna claim that someone said something, at _least_ show some decency to back up what you say with evidence, ... ok? And hell yeah, I'll express what I know about Christianity based upon what I've learned and experienced. And I'd wager to say that if my statements were more supportive and positive of Christianity, you'd have no problem with it. ... Typical! ((snort)) (sarcastic mode on) Oh, I'm sorry. Did I poop all over your thread again? Bringing up points that I thought bared upon the topic, even if it wasn't compatible with 'the Truth'© as you saw it. Never mind I was basing a lot of what I said upon how I saw people manipulating this very item of forgiveness. It's not too pretty now, is it? ... Yes Virginia, that s**t actually happens. (sarcastic mode off) So, if this is _still_ regarded as poop that I'm supposedly dumping on you, ..... well, you're a Christian. ... ... Forgive me. ;) ... (See my point?) Oh, by the way, Oh _please_, ... do so at your earliest convenience! Yes, please do! You can even start the thread. ... Yes, this is gonna be *fun* *fun* *fun*! Oh sure, you could 'poke fun' at us and all, ... but I'd be willing to bet $$$ that by the end of that 'fun poking' (in which I WILL have some responses of my own ), _you_ would wind up being the one upset at having the 'fun poked' at them. ... What, you don't think we vile unbelievers can handle it? ... Trust me, we've undergone FAR worse over the years. <_< ((snickers)) ... You haven't been in a real debate/argument/fun poking with an atheist. _That_ I can tell. ((guffaws)) But seriously, ... thanks for the hearty laugh!

Ditto! And not being 'forced' (ie., coerced, religiously browbeaten, 'reproved', etc.) to forgive, ... but deciding when, if, and by what conditions you might forgive someone offers _you_ a lot more control and freedom over your life than any 'renew your mind and forgive' wannabe dogma could _ever_ give you, even if said wannabe dogma (supposedly) comes with a 'but you'll set yourself free!' "gaurantee". And I say that IMNSHO. :B)

Ex, My 'dolt' remark was in reference to those who use that phrase "everything happens for a reason" in a manipulative manner; so that the people that they use it on stop asking questions about the situation they may not understand and/or who want a solution that doesn't fit with said dolt's worldview. Clear as mud perhaps? :B)

For me and my opinion, you hit the nail squarely on the head.

Brainfixed, He won't listen to you Brainfixed, as fundamentalist opinions like that are near impossible to overcome. As a matter of fact, this is a classic example of topical context in this thread re: forgiveness. Ie., that being the 'unforgivable sin' of being, and remaining, an atheist, by people like yours truly. <_<

Bowtwi, Now _you_ gave me a more detailed (and not a self-righteous) answer. I look at things a tad differently, in that you can still not have someone 'take up brain space' and your time, and still not forgive him. That incident in Matthew, where the king forgave that guy his loan (ie., where the guy didn't have to pay the king back)? You said that you forgave the guy, but that he was still obligated to pay it back anyway. ... You didn't 'forgive' him, you just don't take up every waking moment in your day thinking about him. See, I see forgiveness that is often something that is vague, and often manipulated for the perp's own purposes, and the kind of forgiveness that I would throw out like a sack of trash with no repentance in doing so. There are also times where people apply forgiveness and it becomes beneficial, particularly in regards to offenders who still maintain some decency and endeavor to make right by others. At that point, it then becomes a virtue for all concerned. Thank you for taking time to explain your view to this 'shark'. <_<

Wow! Evidently I pushed _someone's_ buttons. ((snickers)) Notice folks, that he provides absolutely _no_ valid and logical explanations to my questions whatsoever. His beliefs are 'externally-based faith' based and thus, NO logic or rational thought is required or needed ... or wanted. And apparently scrutinizing for said valid and logical explanations is (to him/her) comparable to "debating the merits of Mozart with a shark" and "falling back to belief systems that are arbitrary in origin and materialistic in nature". ... and all of this based on because his faith instructs him so. ... And he obeys it without question. <_< Anybody _else_ want to take a stab at the questions that I posted, ... questions that I (apparently) have no qualms about asking because I think that they are valid and honest questions. P.S., From your status update, I see that you're still in TWI, ... and thus your type of response is to be expected. ((sigh))

Just a few curious questions here. (Yes folks, one of the vile village atheists is speaking up. ) What exactly is it that 'forgiveness' is supposed to accomplish? What does it do; towards/in regards to the perp, that is? Does that relieve them of their responsibility/culpability of the crime(s)/transgression(s)? (In that account in Matthew(?) that seems to be the case, yet people today don't seem to make that particular connection.) And why should forgiveness be _required_? "You need to give said perp forgiveness, and God _requires_ it!" I always thought that forgiveness is where you _give_ absolution to the transgressor, and you did it with a _giving_ heart. If you _have_ to give, then it's not giving, ... right? And what about people who 'ask for forgiveness', ie., expect to get it, so that they get out of being responsible for what they did? Are you still obliged to give them the forgiveness anyway? Knowing that they are just looking for a way out of being held accountable for what they did? Just a few questions that I think people should seriously consider, ... even if it challenges what they are told to believe.

Hiya Trevor! Good to see ya again. I love it when people use the phrase "everything happens for a reason". Some people just need a public _beating_ for using such a manipulative phrase. Here's a response to that to consider: "Of course things happen for a reason, you dolt! ... It's just that it's not always for the _right_ reason." ... THEN beat them.