GarthP2000

... and let us not forget those who are persecuted because they like pineapple pizza, ... or who wish for the appearance of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, ... or who enjoy Ton Strange's sno cones, ..... or who believe in THE! ((snif)) ;)

Unless the ones doing the persecuting happen to be a bunch of Marxist/statist/'Dimmycrats', and the ones being persecuted are the 'lovers of liberty', ehh Ron? THEN its fer sure real, I take it. ... Maybe it depends on who's ox is being gored, ya think? <_< But seriously Ron, simply dismissing the accounts where people genuinly get treated like 2nd class citizens (uh ohh, a 'leftist' term?), undergone discrimination, and have even been threatened due to them being "a persecuted minority", and all because it never happened to you, ... now there is the ignorant, childish part. P.S., please don't tell us that the concept of the "persecuted minority" is just Yet Another Marxist Plot. I just ate.

... largely from the Enlightenment period, methinks.

ROFLMAO!!

... God must have a pretty twisted sense of humor to allow me to exist then, ya think?

Ditto to what P-Mosh has said.

"But M-M-o-m-m, ... he started it!!!!"

Perhaps what shouldn't be belittled is the person holding the beliefs, rather than the belief itself. ... Think about that distinction for a moment, Rick (and others here). See, for a lot of us unbelievers, the concepts we now reject ARE ridiculous to us. Ie., The concept of believing in an invisible entity, and that mainly because of faith (ie., no proof), and that we would become vile, sinful, and hellbound if we don't. Or the premise of something being true simply because it is presupposed to be so, and that whatever scientific evidence that contradicts it must be rejected. ... You know, stuff like that. There are a LOT of religious/spiritual concepts out there that we atheists/unbelievers now regard as out-to-lunch, flawed, bunk, ie., UNTRUE and, as many humans are wont to do, we consider the things that are untrue to be LIES. ... JUST as ALL of you Christians regard atheist concepts re: God as LIES (Yes you do. Yes you do!) and you folks are unapologetic in saying so, many times. I've seen that here time and time again, particularly amongst the most orthodox of Christians who often portray a malevolent attitude towards atheists/heretics. And like I said, you get a taste of that yourself, and you find it offensive.

Out There, My "goosestep ... goosestep ..." response was a characterization of your post that I was responding to. As Sudo so rightly pointed out, this is NOT a Christian forum. There are Christians here, true. But they do not make up ALL of the folks here. There is enough of widespread smattering of people of different beliefs/opinions here to make totally bogus this 'Christian board' claim of yours. ... And that you basically tell us non-Christians to leave because of your MIS-statement, because we aren't Christians is why I portrayed/illustrated it like I did. Ie., goosestepping. Getting with the Christian program, or leave. Perhaps my application of 'Godwin's Law' here was a little over the top, but not by much. And we infidels ain't going anywhere, so you might as well get used to us being in your neighborhood. By the way, are you sure that it is you and your fellow Christians that are being attacked here in this thread? Or the ideas that you convey? ... Think about that for a moment. I've read over the comments by Seth and other atheists here, and it seems to me that what they were initially deriding was the ideas that religion perpetuated, ... NOT the believers themselves. Yes Virginia, there is a distinction between the two, no matter how much the believers in said concepts wish to identify with them. And keep in mind that the criticism/attack of ideas are *always* open game, ..... just as much as atheist ideas are (and always have been) open game to Christians, particularly when they are in apologetic/evangelical mode in an attempt to win over people to their side. It's just now you are getting a (comparatively) little taste of what we often go through, and you don't like it. ... Welcome to the club!

goosestep ... goosestep ... goosestep ... goosestep goosestep goosestep goosestep goosestepgoosestepgoosestepgoosestepgoosestepgoosestepgoosestepgoosestepgooseste p..... "Springtime for Hitler, and Germany, ... Winter for England and France, ..." All we need now is some Monty Python actors, and we'll have ourselves one helluva skit!

... add to all that the number of folks who still thinks that he's still alive!! I mean, John Lennon's fans haven't gone that far, and (frankly, IMNSHO) he is more musically skilled than Elvis the Pelvis. ((Uhh ohhh, looks like I'm in for it now -- *ducking*))

Good one, Jonny. I saw that video before myself, and I think it rocks! Thanks! :)

Well Bluze, now you kinda have an idea of what a lot of us atheists, agnostics, and assorted unbelievers go through, ... because for a HELLUVA lot longer than atheists have been insulting Christians, Christians have been insulting (at the very LEAST) atheists for their unbelief for years, ... even centuries. Even today, how many millions upon millions of times, have atheists been portrayed as not having ANY morals (beyond just considering what we want and living a hedonistic life, as Jonny so clearly illustrated as to where he stands on the matter), ... or being able to think a clear, intelligent thought, ... or being worthy of holding even the lowest of elected office, ... or ......................... You get the idea? And all those times, Christians/other theists have strongly defended/justified these views because of what their scriptures say, or of what they think their deity tells them. ... YOU might not have a problem with atheists, but there are plenty of theists out there who do, ... and for reasons that are a LOT less justifiable than people realize. Plus ask yourself the following questions, and you don't even have to give your answers on the board: 1) Do you believe that atheism is based on a lie? 2) Do you hold atheists to be a bunch of brainwashed zombies, or of a similar situation due to them supposedly being 'foolish' for not believing in God? (Ie., "The fool says in his heart, there is no God". Do you believe in that verse in Psalms?) 3) (Similar question as regards being 'stupid') 4) How about the point that Jonny illustrated. Do you believe that atheists (because they don't believe in God) are, as a result, less moral/ethical/charitable than believers in God? Then maybe you can get more of an idea of the crap we go through. <_< Updated: I saw your more recent posts, Bluze. :) Thanks!

Yeah Cowgirl, I read it too. ... Sad. Guess this is part of him living according to the 'non-hedonistic precepts' of his 'Sky Giant'. <_<

Oak, There is a difference (yes there is) between maligning our fellow (Christian) posters, ... and duly chastising certain ones who damn well deserve it, not only for a total and gross mischaracterization of a group (and that for no better reason than that group doesn't believe in the same god that the maligner believes in), but for then uttering gutteral crap, and in a manner that betrays the 'godly morality' that they _say_ they believe in. And all he had to do was to avoid a thread that apparently 'offended his religious sensabilities'. (Yeah. Right! )

Jonny, Ever hear about the concept of 'being a gentleman'? :huh: What's up with you anyway, dude? Why the infantile, sophomoric, locker room talk to Cowgirl? I mean, does that fit in more with your concept of "believing in God and His precepts"? Hell, as much as I'm a cranky, argumentative, old fart in politics n' tacks (and elsewhere even), I have NEVER (and would never) engage in trash talk of such nature. ..... Hhmmmmm, now how can that be I wonder, since I'm supposedly this "do anything I want, screw anyone I want, and to he11 with the consequences" humanist infidel, hmmmm? I wonder if you would say that crap to her face, ... and with some of her friends (like a good number of us) around within earshot, ..... hhmmmm? So you don't like atheists and all. ... So go take a chill pill and get over it. Updated to say: Humanist, atheist, ... and *damn* proud of it!

... and they _definitely_ do NOT believe in the separation of church and state. Not by a long shot!

Abso-frikkin'-lutely amazing how Jonny takes Oakspear's comment about "one could grab for all the gusto now, make life worth living now, cram as much living as can be crammed into the years one has now!" and totally *distort* it into something immoral, unethical, and abusive -- a rendering that is totally in line with how a lot of Christians are *blindly* indoctrinated (almost tempted to say 'brainwashed' ;) ) that atheists are without morals and ethics, and simply because said atheists don't believe in a god. Ie, Jonny, dispite your 100+% dedication to your religious beliefs (or maybe I should say because of such dedication <_< ), you have NO idea of what you're talking about when you speak about atheists and how they view things. NO idea whatsoever. ((shakes head)) ... and I oughtta know, as I used to have the same distorted viewpoints regarding atheists.

Ya know, it really amuses me seeing how some people try to describe atheism or atheists. Especialy when they use that old canard that VPW himself once used: "An atheist is one who doesn't believe in anything, and everybody believes in something. Therefore you can't really be an atheist." Basically put, an atheist is one who doesn't believe in a god or supernatural being(s). ... Period. ... That's all she wrote. Simple. See how easy that was? :)

You have no idea. ;)

Ahhhh-HAAAA!! Another infidel to crucify and persecute!! ... ((picking up my stone to cast at the infidel )) ..... J-U-S-T kidding, Seth. (Got ya going there fer a moment. didn't I? ;) ) Welcome to the growing community of child-eating--errr, ahh Communist---ummm, I mean---lively-in-debate, and stuanchly rude curmudgeons known as atheists, agnostics, 'Brights' ((ugghh! I HATE that term )), and other assorted freethinkers.

... ahhh, go ahead and pound it some more. You know you want to.

Larry, (referring to your post on the October 2002 article) Kudos!! An article that provides a clear, informative, and balanced definition/information as regards the atheist/theist topic. ... And very much enjoyed by yours truly. :) Thanks for posting that.