GarthP2000

Heh! ... The THE tradition has been going pert near 8 years now. ... and we owe it all ........ to RAF!!! Who should get one big, hearty ... ... PINEAPPLE PIZZA! Yummmmm!

Ex-TWI people began to see the true nature of Hillary, ... as she began to morph into VeePee.

Wanna *really* live the 70s at this reunion of yours? Make your date wear a walking suit! ((chortles wickedly))

??? And they are ... of what group?

"What do you mean I need Olay for the wrinkles on my skin?! ... There ARE no wrinkles! ... Get that!?!?!"

I saw the play, and really enjoyed it. I think that was when the 'Jesus Freak' movement was really going strong.

Uuhhmm, I think he tried to, ... by asking what looks to me like an honest question. ??? WTF is up with that? :unsure: How did he do "the same thing that the Pharisees did"? How can you tell that it wasn't an honest question? Where in Cman's question was the supposed 'tempting'?

I kinda wonder what the surviving Wierwilles are thinking regarding their supposed 'spurchel heritage'? Do they still think that their family was specially called out by God in such a fashion (even if they evidently aren't publically yammering on about it)? Or do they think that all that hulabaloo was just a bunch of hooie? Any Wierwille out there who might be brave enough to be reading Greasespot want to chime in?

First off, TWI isn't the standard for those of us who like to 'figure things out' or have 'all things figured out'. We too, are way beyond that. Two, I prefer to be in the 'figure it out' crowd, for then we don't have to run the unnecessary risk of being scammed, tricked, and screwed by those who just *love* to take advantage of those who so readily 'take it on faith'. Keeping the 'figure it out' function on and open, ie., scrutinizing what we hear, read, and see, is part and parcel of independent thinking for ourselves. And that we 'scoffers' who are so skeptical and being of a 'prove it' mindset, ... now we are _scoffed_? <_< Right! ... Look, if it is indeed a genuine miracle, and it happened as told, there should be no real problem proving so. Verifying it. Now this is what I like about the current Catholic process; whenever they are told of some 'miracle', they send out a team to investigate the matter, and endeavor to verify that it is indeed a miracle, rather than some bogus claim. (And no, I don't believe in Catholic doctrine, nor do I believe in their 'miracles' either. But I do respect that they make at least an attempt to thoroughly investigate the matter, ... which is a helluva lot more than I can say for a lot of televangelical ministers who advertise 'miracles' going on in their churches. "Read more about it, ... for a Love Offering of only $39.95". ) So yes, I am indeed a scoffer, and am proud of it!

... then what would the buck be doing? :blink: ;)

Good come back, Rhino. Can you say 'degree mill'? ... Yup, the more we read and investigate, the more flaws we see. And that is one big reason why I will not believe, ... and rightfully so.

Usually this is the case, ... IF what said physician diagnosed/rendered was backed up by the medical records of this situation, ... (IF their was indeed medical records. <_< ) See, the physician's word ALONE isn't good enough. No Virginia, it isn't. ... (Uuhhmm, that's why people often go for a 2nd opinion? And sometimes said physicians are sometimes sued for medical malpractice?) Like Dooj also said, "I did wish that more doctors and nurses had been interviewed. I felt like more witnesses would have lent more credibility, especially given the "re-enactment" style of the presentation." Now where were they after this situation, hmmm? Why shouldn't they also be interviewed, particularly when it is regarding 'raising someone from the dead'? An incident like this would be regarded as at least highly uncommon, therefore scrutiny and validation would be necessary, would it not? Unless we are all to take this *one* doctor's account on faith. ..... Errmm, ... No. "But he's a doctor, and you aren't, Patterson!" And I have to be a doctor to know all this as basic fact?? ... I think not! I stand by what I say. Rhino, LOVE that pic, dude! Maybe that was the 'doctor' they used. "It is ALIVE!!!" P.S., "I would say the attending physician that pronounced him dead and/or was prepping him for the morgue, would much rather give the credit to God than be blamed for malpractice. A few more minutes and he could have just buried his mistakes maybe." Great defense in court, I'd say. "Yer honor! It isn't my fault. The glory goes to God!" ..... Judge comes back with a verdict: "Guilty as charged!". Sounds like a great Law & Order episode. :P

Buck says, "Geee, couldn't you have at least taken me to dinner first?" or Don't Ask, Don't Tell, but Go Ahead and Put This on Youtube. (Good one Ron. ..... This wasn't one of your kills, was it? ;) )

You'd be amazed at the number of 'otherwise healthy adults' who put up with abusive behavior from churches-that-aren't-regarded-as-mind-control-cults (ie., those that are orthodox and mainstream, particularly the fundamentalist variety) when they are told that defying said abusive doctrines, behaviors, and expectation of money (Yes Virginia, there are quite a number of orthodox and mainstream churches that are big and hardass on the tithe issue) would result in them displeasing God/the church/morality/etc. And how about the ones who want to give up their church/religion/God in total? Do you think that hardly anyone gives a flying flip if someone goes atheist? Hey lady, you want to see the *plentious* times mainstream believers can act just as controlling and 'cultic', just read up on all the deconversion stories where individuals cast aside religion and become atheist, but are afraid to tell their families, or are afraid to let it become known at work (Yes Virginia, you can still lose a job for being atheist even today, and the company that fires you for such can 'doctor up' the incident to where its near impossible to prove). ... Hhmmmm, how 'cultic' would that kind of situation be? ... Look up 'deconversion stories' on Google. You'll get quite an education on the subject. You see Rascal (and others), Oldies did bring up a valid point in pointing to the RC child abuse situations, and other abuses in other churches. Where his logic fails is where he uses it to make excuses for/downplays the actual crap that went on in TWI. I don't do that. Rather (since this thread _does_ deal in TWI in relation to other religious groups as being worse), I bring up the fact that such abuses (including the behaviors that people distort as 'mind control') aren't exclusively specific to groups that people think of as 'cults'. Such behaviors: control, abuse, intimidation, manipulation, money grubbing, sexual abuse, the claim that _they_ understand what God wants, s**t done in the Name of God over the years, ... bleed over, profusely I might add, to a good number of 'churches-that-aren't-regarded-as-mind-control-cults' as well. ... It's just that its not as easy to spot (or are a lot of people being as honest to admit) when it happens in their own churches backyard, particularly if said church is widely known as 'orthodox' and 'mainstream'. Very valid points by Rascal and other anti-TWI proponents notwithstanding, this thread here clearly illustrates the selectiveness of the application of the 'cult' terminology, particularly the scientifically-questionable 'theory' of 'mind control', ... and my scrutiny/criticism of that.

from the article: Uhhmmm, no. The answer of how the man came back to life is clearly indicated in the first sentence of what Crandell said. The heart shock paddles. So they didn't work the first few times. That's common in situations like this. And frankly, I have my serious doubts as to him 'being dead' for an hour. Was he starting to go into rigor mortis? Bodies don't start to decompose until well after an hour. And what about this part? "His face, his arms, his legs were pitch black with death. I said, 'Let's just call the code, let's end it because there's no life left." Really? So after being dead for about an hour, a body is 'pitch black with death'? Dead bodies don't go 'pitch black' after only an hour. Another flaw: "Jeff Markin: "I was actually standing in the back of the funeral home, and I came to realize that this was my funeral." Huh? I didn't know that they started the funeral even while he's still at the EM. (Besides, don't they wheel the lifeless body _out_ of the EM in order to prepare it for burial? So that the next emergency patient can get treatment?) Also, Jeff supposedly was talking to an (angel?) named ... Bob. What do the medical records show? See, all we have here is an unverified account of one doctor and one patient. Notice no accounts recorded from the other nurses/doctors. This is a very questionable (if not downright laughable) 'news account'. And that the news station cast it as a viable story doesn't do anything for its journalistic credibility. ... Oh wait, it's a Fox News channel. That explains it! <_<

Ditto on my vote as well. Give your Rottie a hug for me, willya?

Ahhh crap! Video no longer available. :(

((clapclapclap)) Good one, Exie!

You mean 'fertilized'? :huh:

Hhmmmm. Interesting concept, Groucho. "I'll have an order of Super-Dooper Quarter Pounder Meat-of-the-Word Sandwich, a Holy Roller Salad with Heavenly Hash dressing, a side order of Freedom Fries, ... and a Water-to-Wine Cooler to go."

Again, why would Paul and Fern need to do this in the first place? They was 'in the driver's seat'. They had TWI by the family jewels. They didn't owe TWI *anything*. The person who has such a commanding position is obligated to do ... _nothing_. So what was TWI going to do if Paul didn't acquiesce to shutting down Waydale? ... Go on and get their a$$ smeared all over the courtroom by going ahead to trial? That was what TWI was desperately trying to avoid! :blink: This kind of supposed threat by TWI reminds me of a one-liner wisecrack by the character Lennie from Law & Order: "I love it when they're stupid!" Socks, you wouldn't happen to have the specific quote/source where Paul specificually said this, would you? And as far as I remember it, Pawtucket started Greasespot _before_ Waydale ended, and mainly as a chatboard, if I'm not mistaken. But I do remember clearly that there was about (at least) a few months overlap of Waydale and Greasespot. So nahh, this idea of Waydale shutting down as a condition to a TWI demand is totally out-to-lunch. Sorry! No sale!

Uhhhh ... m,kay. :unsure:

Wordwolf, I don't know if this has already been covered earlier in this thread, but here goes: Interesting point, since during their more profitable days they could have done just that, ... but they didn't. The only specific instances of kidnapping were done by deprogrammers. Instead, TWI's basic means of enforcing conformity is either by shouting you down or marking and avoiding you. ((sigh)) This Urban Myth continues still. For your (and everyone's) information, Paul and Fern Allan did NOT shut down Waydale as part of some legal plea agreement with TWI. ... This kind of situation would make no sense whatsoever. Paul and Fern had TWI by the, uhh, 'family jewels', litigationally speaking. The party (TWI) who is in such a disadvantagous situation has no place to be calling ANY terms whatsoever. (I mean, what are they gonna threaten Paul and Fern with? "Shut down your site, ... or we're gonna lose badly??" Must've had them shiver in their shoes -- NOT! ) Paul even told some of us himself why they were shutting down Waydale: So that they can get on with their lives. Anyone running a sizeable message board can readily identify with this. (Right Paw? ;) ) It takes a lot of time, effort, ... and money to run a message board of this magnitude. And Paul and Fern, after a year and a half, wanted to hang it up and 'pass the torch' as it were to Greasespot. Hope this clears things up a bit.

It . . . . . is . . . . . alive!! :o :ph34r:

We atheists wuv you too. :wub: