GarthP2000

So-o-o gays wanting to take part in the institution of marriage, which includes taking part in the commitment of marriage, ... which would mean *more* people practicing all the characteristics of marriage, ... ... means the death of the institution of marriage. Hhmmmm, sounds like double speak to me. -->

Grizz, I don't think that the 'blast radius' of Pat's case (should he lose) will go much beyond Pat's site. As I mentioned before, simply bitching about TWI is something that they can't touch, unless they have a solid case of liable/slander; something that has often been a *bear* to prove in court, and even with 50 mil, TWI ain't exactly Bill Gate$ here. Ie., I see no problem for Greasespot.

St Pat the Persecuted, 1) Your first 'answer' doesn't answer my question re: Waydale as my question applied to when it was open, and TWI didn't go after them. ... Strike one! 2) How does Greasespot being a source of info negate whether or not TWI could attempt to nail them as per your previous presumption? ... Strike two! 3) Maybe Juedes does and maybe Juedes doesn't. But that doesn't support your vacuous claim that sites that b*tch about TWI are ones that they can go after, either legally or any other-wise. ... Strike three. .... You're out! Pat, I'm no attorney, and even I can see that TWI doesn't have any legal leg to stand on in any way, shape, or form to simply go after sites that give them bad press. There is something called the 1st Amendment that douses that fire in a hurry. Ergo, your 'theory' (and I'm using that term very charitably here) about you being persecuted only because you are 'shining the light upon TWI' falls flat. Now whether they have the legal solidity behind their case or not remains to be seen, but I tend to view Long Gone's (and Raf's) 'legal interpretation' as far surpassing yours. With that, Happy Hunting!

Oldies and Johniam quoteth: Like I said before, as so beautifully illustrated by today's postings of the Morning Crew of Oldies and Johniam (and so skillfully rebutted by Raf and others), I think they are trying desperately to hold on to the reputation and worth of VPW's ministry and teachings that, deep down, they know is dying off anyway. No matter how much they defy his very same PFAL principles of biblical interpretation by means of private interpretation and scripture mangling to do so. And no matter which of the abused's reputation they disgard along the way. Johniam's usage (and subtle slam) of the word 'prevertees' is but one clear indicator of this. :(-->

Opine? ... or whine? :D-->

Pat, Since this seems to be, to you, the main reason that they are going after you, then answer the following queston if you will: Why then, have they NOT gone after, nor even attempted to go after, Waydale, Greasespot Cafe, John Juedes anti-way site, and other sites that were clearly anti-Way? If your theory hold true, this clearly wouldn't be the case, ... would it?

Actually Ex, I think Oldies is trying desperately to hold on to the reputation and worth of VPW's ministry and teachings that, deep down, he knows is dying off anyway.

Imbus, Ie., using that analogy, TWI is kinda like someone who eats and eats, and has their butt corked. ... Something is gonna blow! :D-->

Dropping a hint for anybody in particular, Raf? :D-->

What-ever! :D-->

:D--> Its usage is kinda like "Oh for the love of Pete!"

Oldies, Remember that section in the Gospels where Jesus gets on the Pharisees case about training their young proselytes wrong teaching and practice, and "making them twice-fold children of hell than you are yourselves"? (Undoubtedly a figure of speech there as referring to being a 'twice-fold child of hell', because how can one be literaly a child of hell twice over?) Notice that he puts the responsibility *squarely* on the Pharisees*. He only chews *them* out. ... Why not the proselytes as well? Also notice in the Pualine epistles where FAR more burden and responsibility is placed on the leaders for teaching and acting right than the followers. As Steve and others noted time and again here (only to fall upon your deaf ears and **thick** skull), nobody is saying that the women are totally w/o responsibility in these cases. Many of them have, and still do, feel guilty, foolish, and like crap because of their experience. But, under the thin veil of "they all are responsible, and not just leadership (including VPW)", you still treat lightly and with a dismissive attitude all those who, even if they do share responsibility, have nevertheless still suffered abuse under VPW and other sadistic leadership. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: VPW and TWI and all that they have offered have had their chance at doing good. They have f***ed it up totally. The TWItanic has sunk. ... Time to move on, and let VPW's already tarnished, nay, **trashed** reputation DIE! He isn't worth anywhere near the level of defense and honor that you and Smikeol have brown-nosed him with. Christmas! If THAT is the best that you think God can do?? ..... -->

I like to see how they handle the rapture. Hehehe, watch their host system crash just as people are ascending. :D-->

Dude, you wouldn't call him an evil person no matter how screwed up his actions and teachings were. You, like Smikeol does with PFAL, would endeavor to make excuses for and whitewash his rep with such blind loyalty that its not even funny. And you think that God approves of this? If so, you can have him, 'cause I sure as hell have no use for that kind of religion. At all!

Would that then mean that the 'cult' term could also apply to say, political organizations, especially religio-conservative ones that expect a high level of acceptance of its dogmas/policies, and treat those who question its party planks as 'unpatriotic' and 'immoral'? :D--> But seriously, what I was talking about as there being no 'standard' for the 'cult' term, was its oft-selective usage, illustrated by the often exemption of mainstream examples, coupled with the religious rantings of 'unorthodox heresy', or the psycho-babble of 'mind control', loosly bandied about and applied to questionable groups.

Doncha just _love_ it hearing crap like this? ... And this usually coming from the same people who *urged* us to think for ourselves and **free** ourselves from the mind bending and controlling 'cult'!! --> And frankly, I don't think there *is* a 'standard' and well reasoned usage of the 'cult' term. Not without there being 'exceptions to the rule' (usually of the mainstream variety), excuses, high emotionalism and other socially accepted forms of flatulance that go along with it.

No limitations on being stupid at all. ........ Ohhh, you said statute of limitations! :D--> :D--> :D-->

Some comments re: the Four Points: 1. Breach of Contract: Nope! the Green Card wasn't a bona fide 'contract' as it were, specifically gauranteeing certain gains for certain actions. 2. Misappropriation of funds; This I think is your strongest point, altho' it would take a lot of info presented properly to prove this. 3. RICO Law violations: By and large the 'threat' was of a spiritual and religious nature, being that God was going to allow bad things to happen to us if we didn't give. If there were actual incidents of bodily harm and related intimidations, this might not apply, as this would be a class action, and the incidents were at best, sporadic. 4. Fraud: Subpoint (1) the new light claim being deliberately fraudulant is at best vacuous, as we all believed that we had 'new light' from the class, and even VPW believed this, or talked himself into believing this. Subpoint (2) might be more proveable in court, but how much that will help the class action case is doubtful. In finality, how much won will be dependent upon the strength of your case--if at all. AND keep in mind that the attorneys representing us WILL get their sizeable cut, the size being determined by the work put into making this case. Subtract from that the taxes taken out. Divy the not-too-sizeable remains after that amongst all the PFAL participants, and you'd wind up making more by using your Kroger card for savings in this week's shopping trip. I think that, by contrast, we all did FAR more damage to them by means of Waydale and Greasespot, plus other sites and ministries who endeavored to help the 'refugees' of TWI.

This is why I don't watch TV, but spend my video viewing time on the 'net and watching DVDs. ..... that, and *actually going outside* once every 3-4 weeks. :D-->

They do have a much better looking web site, in my professional opinion.

Zix, (Edited out as it occured to me what you're getting at, as TWI didn't register the 'thewayinternational.com' name before Pat did. My bad. However, I still think that the term 'thewayinternational.com' can successfully be shown to be bought out by Pat on 'bad faith'.) And the rest of your points are quite solid, I think. And to the supporters who seem to think that going over whatever flaws of this case are tantamount to supporting TWI, and/or that we need to nail TWI by whatever way we can, consider this: Why use questionable methods/tactics to bring down TWI when instead it only winds up smacking you back in the face? And TWI *gains* because of your 'fax paux', ie., screwup? Why not instead work over the plan and make it as fool proof as possible. THEN go after them. That is what strategic and critical thinking is all about. And sometimes it takes longer than maybe we would like.

OM, Does this also apply to repeating the false charge that people are saying that PFAL leads to blow jobs? Apparently it does, as you still believe that fallacy despite the *overwhelming* evidence that that charge wasn't brought up at all. There was a connection between the David/Bathsheba line about "every woman belonging to the king" and it being used as additional fodder for justification of the sexual abuse, but that's as far as that PFAL-related link went. And there is no way to interpret that as being similar, let alone identical, to "PFAL leads to blow jobs". At all! So just be a man about it, set aside your 'gotta protect PFAL against the infidels at all costs' stubbornness for 15 minutes, and think about what's *really* being communicated, ... even if it runs the risk of challenging VPW and PFAL. I said it before, and I'll say it again: If PFAL and VPW is the best/only thing God can do to illustrate the truth, then that deity is pathetic, and isn't worth the time of day, ... let alone worship and praise. -->

Hope, Bingo! And it looks like Oldies is the textbook case of being the model student of Power For Abusive Living. --> OM, Face it chief! Any attempts at disguising your true motive for your posts: the whitewashing of the reputation of your preciousssssss master Wierwille, is so transparent, its pathetic. PFAL is long dead. If you can't learn truth and positive living significantly from any other source other than Wierwille's PFAL, then you are in a pathetic situation indeed. :P--> And you do owe Imbus an apology. Frankly, if this was my message board, your a** would be banned until you did make that apology --- publically. But hey, that's me. But I do thank you for reminding me why I'm glad that I am no longer part of TWI.

Raf, Apparently some folks have something akin to a death wish. -->

Just when you think that spam can't get any lower, ... we now have political spam :(--> The economy is doing a lot better nowadays. So why can't the author of said political spam do something more useful, ... like get a job? -->