GarthP2000

Immature huh? We'll see. Apparently that same 'arrogance' is plainly exhibited by you when you would defend your grandchildren against those copperheads. ... Join the club. ;)--> Fascinating. This is the same 'they are nothing more than animals' attitude that arrogant believers (Oopsie! Did I just call *them* arrogant? ) throughout the centuries had towards those who did not believe in their god, coupled with this eerily McCarthyite attitude that these same unbelievers posed just as much a danger to themselves and to Western civilization that you seem to think that the Amalekites posed to Isreal during the time of Samuel. (Ohh by the way, where is it in the biblical text that this threat was actually present for Isreal to take that military strike against them? Or was it Yet Another 'Godly' principle of pre-emptive strike that was called for here? ... Praise Dubya! -->) You're getting ....ed, I can tell. Why? Because you totally missed the point of my H2O illustration. ... Now remember, click your heels three times together and say, "its ONLY a discussion board ... its ONLY a discussion board ... its ONLY a discussion board ...". :)--> And finally, You want to know how much **BULL....** has been done, and how many people that has died because of such 'who are you to question GOD' browbeating? Uhhh, excuse me, but didn't we get a classic textbook example of this same garbage in The Way International? "Religious Mental Slavery 101". ... You DID pass that exam, did you not? --> Sorry chief, but this practice of mindlessly goosestepp-- ahh I mean, accepting w/o question and challenge what is said about God, or even what God says himself (even with the 'I am not God' argument), isn't on my To Do List anymore. That has ben thrown out in the trash along with my other PFAL collateral. ... If you hurry, you just might see Smikeol scrounging around in that pile of trash. And if that is 'Rejecting Christ', ....... so be it! :P--> Now, ... where's my pony? ;)--> :D-->

Actually, what confuses the hell out of me, is otherwise intelligent people turning their critical thinking skills OFF whenver their preciousssss belief is challenged. And especially when they view this same belief to be absolutely true. Please refer to my example of the chemist for further illustration of this principle.

Zix, Tell me something. Remember that account in I Samuel where Samuel tells King Saul that God wanted all the Amalekites slaughtered, including infant and suckling? (And of course how Saul got in trouble for not totally carrying it out, to the losing of his kingdom?) Please, using your formidable skills of logic and thinking things through, tell me in what way it is arrogant of me to think that there is something *seriously wrong* with this order, both from a moral and ethical standpoint? That there is something intrinsically wrong with the slaughter of innocent (Yes Virginia, they WERE innocent, any arguments of all of us humans being guilty before God notwithstanding) children, even if God orders it? Regardless if God orders it? And no, you can't say that they were a immediate threat to Isreal (they weren't in any way at the time, so your phrase of "Copperheads, Amalekites...the principle's the same." does not apply, and thus is flawed), for the strike was in revenge for an attack of the Amalekites agains the children of Isreal *400 years before*, and even then that attack was effectively squeltched. That would be like us attacking modern day American Indians for any scalpings done back in the days of Jamestown in 1604! So just because God orders it, that makes it right, and thus an unquestionable position that we are to accept w/o question? Have you ever given thought that maybe, just maybe, at least some of these 'egocentric preconceptions' just might be based on the same rules of right and wrong? From the same bible that you learn about what God expects of you in how to behave in life? Or is it just 'egocentric preconceptions' that is motivating people when they expect God to play by His own rules? Just our own arrogance?

I often thought that if any of us humans, even if we were as popular and well-loved as Reagan, did half the things that we say God did, ... that we'd be arrested, tried, convicted, and sent to the electric chair, and the ACLU would be there to pull the switch! --> Which basically communicates that I find it rather bemusing that all these excuses, explanations, and pontificating as to why God can do, with impunity, all of the things that would send any of us to the death chamber for committing war crimes against humanity, are being made about a God who Himself said that He is perfect; that He doesn't lie, murder, steal, or do any of that which He calls 'sins' and strongly forbids us to do. And in the OT, the punishment for doing many of those things is death. Ie., this God is perfect, according to the scriptures. So here some of us 'infidels' look at the scriptures, see this blatent discrepency, openly and honestly point it out, and we are reduced to being 'arrogant', getting mad because we didn't get our 'ponies', simply think that *WE* can do things better than GOD from a childish and arrogant perspective, etc., ad nauseum. Really? Is that all (or even most) of what atheism, agnosticism, et al really amounts to? ... Or is that the orthodox party line that you are goosestepp--err, have pledged allegience to, right or wrong? Why is it, if God is so REAL and powerful, so TRUE, that His believers go ape-.... when He or His word is challenged? I mean, can you imagine some well reknown chemist going self-righteously indignent if you were to question the fact that H2O = water? Now for that chemist to go nuts if it is questioned means that he is in dire need of a 4 week vacation, ... starting NOW. Why? Because we all KNOW, since it has been scientifically proven, that H2O does indeed make water, and that no amount of questioning or believing otherwise will make it otherwise. So if spiritual truth is so HIGHER and more TRUE than physical facts, well then the certainty of them would be just as much more. ... So why is it a threat, a moral wrong, something to get all up in arms about, for them to be challenged? Or for someone to walk away from them and say 'No. I don't accept them any more.' Frankly, I'm more and more of the opinion that this tack of saying 'Who are you to question God?!' (including all scriptures that convey this idea) has FAR less of a moral basis, and a lot MORE on a basis for control and silencing of any honest dissent. ... And unfortunately, it has been all too effective for many a century. :(-->

Ala, Remember, .... you're dealing with AO-Hell here. So what is so surprising about its lack of reliability? We can all attest to that. ..... .... Right, Raf? :D--> :D--> :D-->

Better to eat them, ..... than to toss them. :D--> (I have GOT to stop doing this)

And, thanks to the Office of Homeland Security, we now also require fingerprints, mug shots (of your face, not your large coffee cup :D-->), Identification papers ("Zee papers, old man! Vhere are your *papers*?!"), and a 500 word essay, typed double spaced, on what John Achtungkroft's Amerika means to you. Other than that, feel *free* to jump right in.

All this reminds me of that one verse in that Elton John song, Tiny Dancer: "Jesus freaks, out in the streets, handing tickets out for gold."

Oldies, Why would you liken what UncleHairy said to what Karl Marx would say. Are you trying to show this as an illustration of Karl Marx's statement of 'religion is the opiate of the masses'? If so, do you say that to try to portray as Communist-wannabees those who think of TWI as an addictive drug? Frankly, I can see his point from one angle, and no, I don't have this sudden urge to read Mao's little red book, either. -->

Bluzeman, Because, as you can see from his 1st post here (in the snowjob crack), he takes a clearly derogeratory attitude towards anybody who challenges (or seems to challenge) his Prophet Wierwille, who he regards as the next Apostle Paul of sorts. Only after being clearly challenged and trounced, and there is no way to weave and dodge his way out of it, he then goes "Oopps! My faux pax, my bad." So in an indirect sense, Smikeol was promoting PFAL, by denouncing any challenge, real or apparent, of its Teacher.

... government approved toxic waste? :D-->

Actually, what TWI taught as far as when life begins is when the baby takes its first breath, then thats when life begins, according to the 'Gospel' of TWI. They use the example of when God gave Adam breath, and then "he became a living soul", not before. And definitely, they clearly used the 'pro-choice', so-called 'scriptural' position in a very 'cover-your-a**' manner. -->

Can a duel layer DVD be read by any DVD player?

Johniam, it is you who is losing the context here. My posts in response to your 'peace in your life' tripe, was dealing with your attempt to turn my targeting a well known TWI snot nosed attitude of 'I am a Son of God w/All Power', and calling it for what it was ... into a 'guilt trip'. We here at the Greasespot Cafe often do that to twisted TWI dogmas and VPW's rancid life: call them for what they are. If *you* want to take that and turn it into a guilt trip, well then, maybe your long buried conscience is trying to tell you something, y'think? And simply trying to dodge the issue by saying that 'you are just ....ed off at what I said on other threads' doesn't help your case either. Face it chief. You, Smikeol, and Oldies need to realize that the dirty old codger (VPW) is long gone, and his song-and-dance is history. Try to keep up. -->

Cynic, Frankly, I think that you're endeavoring to get a lot more mileage out of Marx's statement of 'religion is the opiate of the masses' than is actually there. Communism/hard core Socialism focused mainly on the economic/political arena, and mainly opposed religion whenever religious leaders spoke out against the Communist leadership/policies. This is true of any form of dictatorship, whatever its economic/political label. Hitler, Napolean, various kings and emperors throughout European history, etc., always took this tack. So this 'anti-theistic' oppression perhaps has less to do directly with 'atheistic Communism' (which quite a few conservatives have often tried to include Socialism of any stripe, civil rights leaders, etc) than you might think. (And since when was 'collectivism' specifically anti-theistic? Various Christian/religious groups such as Quakers, Mennonites, et al could arguably be said to be more or less collectivist.) Ie., in short, Atheism/agnosticism is not the causality here that I know you'd like to make it. Sorry for the reality check. Basically I think that you are still holding on to that old saw horse of banding atheism with Communism, a McCarthyite wet dream that has long since been disproven and debunked. An idea that is part and parcel of your insecure loathing of those who have done nothing more than to dare to disbelieve in your god.

... and that would be one of the few books that I would actually support the total censorship of. :D-->

Ex, As long as we don't start stringing chairs. :D-->

The smartest thing he ever said?: ........................................ ((crickets chirping)) ..................................... ............................ ((someone yawning in the background)) ................................... ................................................................................ ..... :D-->

They didn't do that because of their atheism, but because of their totalitarian forms of Communism. Truth be told, and I was quite surprised to find this out when I did, but while there is no one dominant political/world view among atheists/agnostics, the largest political view among them is Ayn Rand Objectivist Libertarianism. --> Now see, Cynic, this is but one of the things that you learn when you actually talk to the 'infidels' directly instead of just going by the church's orthodox party line. ... You start to find out what misconceptions you'll unlearn when you do. ;)-->

Frankly Diazbro, that Long Gone comments on the validity of the case, or lack thereof has absolutely no bearing on whether the courts will try the cases or not. Thats like saying that when people verbalize as to which president will be the best for this country, that the verbalization would be interfering with 'let the people vote and decide for themselves'. They are going to do so anyway. I seriously doubt that the courts that are trying these cases are even going to be looking our way at the Greasespot forums for any ground breaking legal information to render their judgement with.

Hey chief, where your thinking 'ought to be' is totally up to you, regardless of what anybody says. :)-->

Out there, You're out of TWI, aren't cha? I'd say that that is pretty lucky.

The Wizard doth speakest. Johniam, I am all too familiar with the TWI-supported attitude that being a Son of God with All Power frequently meant doing whatever the hell you wanted to do w/o being answerable to anybody, including, if necessary, cops. Ok, so he probably didn't deserve the ticket. But with him spouting off like that doesn't exactly beef up his case any. He just got lucky. Me, if I were the cop, I would have busted his a** right then and there. (And would have been the case with most cops; trust me on this.) *Then* let's see how far the 'Christ in him' would have gotten him out of the jam. :P--> He would wind up gaining the 'opportunity' to do a little witnessing to the losers in the drunk tank over the weekend. So he still had the attitude that he could 'beat the rap' with his 'son of God' song-and-dance. --> P.S., oh, and spare me the TWI-approved 'lack of peace' tripe please. I'm doing just dandy in the peace dept., thank you very much; its just that I don't think that 'having peace in my life' has to include blithely whitewashing Der Wierwille's reputation, and goosestepping to his Neo-nazi swill. So your attempt at that 'spiritual call' struck out. Badly!

Goey, That one is a *classic*, dude! :)--> Definitely a keeper. Hhmm, God using a deceptive practice to communicate truth. ... Yah! Would be interesting to see how the strict Bible literalists and the 'Bible has no errors' faithful get around THAT one. I'm not sure that that was dumb. In a lot of cases, it's quite true. Even with your examples, just stop and think how not only illogical that sounds, but how arguments like that were used by people like Adolph Hitler to further their inhuman goals. I would hope that we live in a more civilized society than that.

Goey, I believe that the 'intellectual suicide' isn't referring to an actual mental death or diminishing of one's mental capacity, but rather the blind acceptance of concepts in such a intellectually dishonest and wholesale manner. Not to say that that is what you are doing tho'. But there are indeed those who embrace concepts totally w/o one ounce of critical and analytical thinking to test and prove one way or another. The prime example of this that readily comes to mind is that of Smikeol with his precioussssss, PFAL. :D--> Johniam, Gee, so *that* is one of the main things about being a son of God w/ all power is good for: not getting a speeding/traffic ticket even if/when you deserve it? ... Been there, seen that, threw up all over the Takit t-shirt. :(--> I wonder if that was what was taught in TWI's prison outreach: how to beat the rap with PFAL! :P-->