GarthP2000

Oak! Oak!! Snap out of it, dude!! :D-->

Me? I prefer the brownies that Zonker makes. The ones with that extra special ingredient. ..... marijuana!

Hey Geek, How's that flak jacket holding out? :D-->

And Smikeol (and other VPW whitewashers) sayeth: "Uhh, uhh, uhhh, ... that's from the old wine skins scripture, non-PFAL approved. ... Remember, PFAL has *replaced* the Bible as God's Word for this our day and time! And in PFAL, it sez 'Yea, forgive VPW, no matter what he hath done or whether he has repented according to the senses!'" :D-->

... and Yet Another Dodge to boot! :D-->

(I just KNEW that Smikeol was gonna chime in with a post like his. Anything to help out with the Great Whitewash of St. Vic.) :P-->

Catcup, So then, the way you portray it, it IS 'legislated', in a round about, and somewhat dishonest way too. The old "Well, its not like I'm REQUIRING you to forgive, BUT Jesus died for you w/o you asking for him to, so-o-o ....." song-and-dance. Besides, where is the part about the offender being required to take the initiative and asking forgiveness portrayed? Otherwise there is no obligation for the perp to make right what he did wrong. I'm with Rascal on this one.

Got a question for you Oldies: Why is it that it is only Wierwille and his 'walking by the flesh' that usually gets your scriptural whitewash--err, defense? I don't see you rising to the like defense of trinitarians when their doctrine is attacked, or political liberals (or conservatives) are attacked and derided with equal venom as your 'preciouosssss' VPW. Tell me why that is, hmmm? ... Perhaps that is why some of us see your ((cough)) 'biblical' defense of VPW as pure whitewash bull.....

Looks like the Red Sox are making up for all the years that they have lost chances at going to the World Series.

Some of his stuff sounds like a Momentus look alike, particularly if its trying to have you take the blame for every single thing that happens to you, and requires that you pledge obedience to what they teach, no matter what. :(-->

TVM?

Rascal, That was one of the best, uhmm, ... 'brownie' nosing messages I've seen yet. :D-->

Step One: Drop VPW and TWI material. Most, if not all of whatever truth that came from them was tainted/twisted/mangled to fit their own purposes. Maybe that is what the Leaven Principle ultimately boils down to, ya think?

Mark, If displayed along with other sources of law as an illustration of the highpoints of law and government through history, then no, I wouldn't mind at all. Let me show you a related illustration. When I was in high school, I took a 'Bible Literature' class, and it illustrated the Bible from a historical/literary viewpoint. Classes like that I had/have no problem with as they aren't perpetrating any particular religious dogma or are even trying to argue the case for God in general. Classes/activities that try to 'bring people back to God' or try to encourage/'inspire' people to acknowledge God, however, are different, and the government should not be involved with them, be they in the public school, or within the 'halls of government'. Roy Moore was clearly an example of a clear violation of this. You get a clearer picture of where some of us are coming from?

Radar, I think its because your icon keeps sticking its tongue out at people. Either that, or its being spanked. :D-->

Pat, Face it dude, an attorney you ain't, and it can be debated as to whether you are even a good law school student or one who would be bounced out on his ear in his first year at law school, as simply taking courses and talking to various attorneys just doesn't cut it as to talking authoritatively re: the law. Hell, even I could see flaws in your reasoning as to the domain name issue. 'thewayinternational.com'. Oh right, like that hasn't any similarity or likeness to The Way International name? --> Anybody proficient with domain names and the legalities thereof can see the confusion/domain name squatting attempt there. Also, in your list of 'experts' you consulted with, was ICANN one of them? I believe they are the ones who know and decide as to the legality/ownership of contested names. And your continuous implications that those who are challenging you on this matter somehow are siding with TWI definitely belongs in the 'Evil Conspiracies That Simply Don't Exist' department. ... Right along with 'the man in the grassy knoll' and Bigfoot. Ie., in short, don't give up your day job. **spank** -->

A quick question: For those of us who are undoubtedly (as per the Gospel According to Oldies anyway) going to wind up being citizens of **HELL**, ..... will we get to vote? will it be by hanging chad, or paperless electronic voting machines? Inquiring minds wanna know. :D--> "Sure I want to go to hell, 'cause thats where all the **HOT** chicks are!"

ie., ... **spank** :D-->

So why the accusation that she is a 'false accuser', O desperate one? ... oh wait a minute, unless your accusation is also false, ..... right? ;)-->

Ahh yes, the old "Well David and Solomon were sinners too, yet they got 'The Wuurd'!" copou--err 'principle'. And as it has been pointed out before, O stubborn one, the difference between David/Solomon, and your MOG Wierwille, is that both David, and later Solomon realized their errors and turned away from the crap. When did Weirwille, hmmm? At all. Oh and, your _belief_ that he did just ain't good enough, dude. Because all you have to go on is the desperate hope that somehow, someway, on his deathbed in that couch, he somehow said "Ooopsie! I think I screwed up." OM, if all you have to go on is Weirwille for your biblical info (The Wuuurd), ..... ((shakes head))

Gee Song, I shoulda remembered to take a Gallup poll along with me for each and every time I saw someone fade away soon after they took the class. "Excuse me sir, but could you tell me whether you took the class because you believed that stuff on the back of the green card, or was it because you just had no choice, and was brainwashed by that funny lookin' Ohio preacher with the skinny tie?" Chief, I'm just telling you my observances, plus from what I've heard from countle-- oops, you don't like that term. ok, uhh LOTS (there ok?) of those who saw many of those 'new in the Word' leave and never come back. Geee, did I it a nerve? Did I tread upon holy ground when I mentioned Dr. Singer's (Peace be unto her) Name and her 'mind control' Gospel in such a profane and mocking manner? Pardon me while I tread some more. -->

ex70, Actually, the biggest ex-Way group so far are the ones who have gone to twig from a couple of times to the ones who have taken the PFAL class, and are then shortly after never heard from again. I have seen this countless times in my entire stay with TWI, and prolly far outnumber the total of all those who were more committed beyond that. Which is one of the reasons I am cynical of the 'strong mind control' diagnosis ((cough)) put forward by Dr. Margaret Singer; her view that you were sucked in against your will into the 'cults'.

Evan, Read what I said again. I didn't say the majority, I said most popular view. ... Which upon 2nd reading, admittedly should have been noted as 'largest' for better clarity perhaps. Is it communism itself that mandates non-theism, or the specific dictatorships themselves that dictate this? Remember, we're talking about an economic system here, AND one that hasn't really been put into place by any of the so-called communist countries. Ie., they were largely dictatorships with the communist label attached, true communism never having been achieved (nor will it). You know, where all the workers owning all the means of production and all? That never happened nor a lot of other pipe dreams that Marx had. But clearly what I said about the majority of atheists being of a non-communist mindset remains true, as being an atheist has nothing to do with one's economic or even political viewpoint. As an aside, your point about China is an interesting one, and one that is often lost upon this current administration, particularly re: the business community doing business there. BUT, I'll leave that issue for the political section. ;)--> Anyway, back to the 10 Commandments.

Johniam, Really? So-o-o, where does it say in the Constitution or in the laws that "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve", hmmm? Where in these 10 Commandment-based laws you keep referring to, is it (or should be) legislated that you should not set up idols to another god? And as per the other laws that says that you shouldn't kill, steal, give false witness, etc., laws like that have been in place in many other countries long before Moses was a gleam in his daddy's eye. (Hammurabi's laws for example) And have no bearing on the Judeao-Christian faith. But the 10 Commandments themselves are specific to the Judeao-Christian faith. The fact that the first 4 laws deal with worship and faithfulness to God seals that fact. Come on man. You can do better than that, can't you? ;)-->

Trefor, How many non-communist leaders (dictators) have that same attitude regarding the antithesis of the earthly paradise (Hitler said that his 3rd Reich would last a thousand years), and the pointing to a higher power than their own party and leadership. Hell, there are those who would equally lay that charge to a good number of 'godly' ((COUGH)), 'anti-communist' American leaders, both Republican and Democrat. (Besides, the pursuit of an earthly paradise and not believing in a higher power in and of itself (didn't want you to miss that), isn't something that automatically leads to communism, or any other brand of freedom-denying dictatorship. Carl Sagan is one such classic example an individual who had this similar point of view, yet I don't think that you would shut your brain off that much and make that 'commie' charge regarding him, hmmm?) All of this isn't specific or particular to communism, my good man. Communist countries like Russia (Soviet Union) really went gangbusters on this (especially under Stalin), but to paint this as a communist = atheist tinge is to ignore the millions of atheists over the years who 'don't have one Marxist bone in their body' as it were. Want a clear-cut example of this? I don't know what kind of political mindset atheists have in yours or other countries (altho' I would be willing to bet even money that it would be very similar to here in the States), but here in the U.S., atheists run the whole gamut, the whole range of political views, left to right wing. And while there is no one dominant political/economic view among them, the most popular view among atheists is Ayn Rand Objectivism/Libertarianism. I don't know how familiar you are with Libertarianism or Ayn Rand, but one thing for sure. I wouldn't lay the 'communist' charge at their feet at any Libertarian/Objectivist gathering. Not if you don't like near lynch mobs. (I've gotten this information from actually talking to/reading directly about/getting to know actual atheists and like sources, instead of goosestepp-err simply following what the *Official Orthodox* Church says about atheists. Kinda like actually talking to/getting to know homosexuals themselves instead of listening to what Jerry Falwell says about them, hmmmm?) There is a saying among atheists that "trying to organize atheists is like trying to heard cats", Yet Another example that these un-believers aren't so monolithically in lockstep with one (read communist/one world takeover-leaning) world view.