Catcup

thanks, I needed that...........

Am trrying to picture her getting the squirrel to hold still while she sprays it with flourescent orange paint....:D A family of squirrels have built a nest directly under the transformer on the pole at the end of my back yard. I can't wait for that to explode in the middle of the night. I'll probably need a dose of nitroglycerine for myself!

You're welcome Rascal. The real reason I share this stuff, is not because I need to say it. I have moved on with my life. But other people need to be freshly reminded not only of the pain that TWI caused, and can still cause, but they need to see there are still people out there who support that kind of predation, and that they are active and vicious. It underlines again, that if you do speak out, you risk being hurt again. But it exposes the wicked and their venom.

I'm pretty sure they do. You are still ignoring the facts. You always will. You epitomize the very reason women find it nigh to impossible to bring charges against the men who rape them. Because people like you victimize them all over again. Think about that. Oh, I forgot. You can't afford to.

At this point, compared to other threads, it's light humor...........

You're welcome. I don't mind sharing for people who want to understand. It's those who, after hearing, stubbornly will to remain ignorant that tick me off.

You are willingly ignorant I called it exactly what it is. RAPE

Get a clue at the following link, please. This is why it is rape: This is why her judgement was not clear: This is why there are professional codes of conduct regarding superiors and subordinates, doctors and patients, students and teachers. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...-an-affair.html This has to be like the third time I have posted this link. It is being ignored.

Sorry it was unclear, hope that helps. Uenjoy2 On the other hand, my better half teaches there and constantly reminds them how much he has learned from me and how I help him out. And lo and behold, they still invite him back to teach. Go figure.

Why, feeling porky, Oldies? And I am also wondering, why you want MY opinion on CFF leaders? And which ones? Aha. That's the rub, isn't it, now. Another thing you choose to forget: I am not personally involved. For all you who don't get it already, Oldies is wanting to lead the thread on yet another direction now as a way to deflect attention from himself, and has been trying to do it for several pages.

So you now worship not only VPWs words, but also enshrine the efforts of other men as well?

You're right Sunesis, there are some real pigs out there. But this pearl is for those who sit and read silently in tears...and understand. Yes, I believe it is possible.

Pond, I have related this story on WayDale and GSC before. So I have reiterated only certain portions in order to not belabor the incident. however, for your benefit, since you are missing some chronology and details, here it is again. In 1975 after I ran a PFAL class for my parents, I went in residence in the 6th Way Corps, and my perfectly well-adjusted 17 year old sister went out WOW Ambassador. So, my parents are brand new grads, and my sister is a brand new WOW, and I am brand new Way Corps. Capiche? Good. VPW that fall gets his bright, shiny, brand new motorcoach, and takes it on a whirlwind tour to visit the WOW ambassadors. He also discovers it has nifty side benefits. Thanksgiving comes, and my excited brand-new-grad parents make a long-haul two day trip from southern Indiana to a coastal state to visit my sister and her WOW family. They are treated warmly and lovingly, with hugs all around. My sister and her WOW family are happy and excited, and announce VPW is coming for a visit in a few days. My parents leave and make the long-haul two day trip all the way back home to Indiana. In a little while, I get pulled aside in residence in Emporia. I have a phone call. Some kind of emergency at home. I go to the phone, pick it up, and my Mom is on the other end. It seems almost as soon as they got home, they got a call from someone on the WOW field to come and pick up my sister. No explanation, no nothing. No time to even ask a question. Just come pick her up, immediately. Click. So, my parents, who JUST GOT HOME from their long trip and are not even unpacked, have to turn around, climb back into the car, spend another two days to drive all the way back out to where my sister is to find out what is going on. Her stuff is packed and at the curb. No hello, no how are you, no hugs. No explanation. Just take her and get out of here. They were treated rudely and brusquely. This confused them after such a warm welcome just a few days before. For two days they drive home through the hills and hollows of South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, and finally Indiana. My sister did not speak a word the entire time. Nor did she eat a single bite of food, or drink a drop of anything. She just silently sobbed. When they got her home she would not come out of her room. She would not get out of bed. They could not get her to talk or eat. She could not sleep. All she did was cry. And cry. So my Mom called me and asked me what to do. My sister wouldn't tell them anything. Mom and Dad were confused about how they were treated. They knew something was wrong, but didn't know what it was or what to do. She wanted my advice and wanted to know if I knew who to talk to to find out what happened. I knew VPW would be at Emporia the next day and I knew that whatever happened had to have transpired while he was there. Surely he would know what happened. Surely I could ask him, and he would gently and honestly tell me what happened to her and why she was sent home, and why my parents were treated so coldly. Surely he would make that right and find out why my parents were treated that way, and give me advice on how to handle the situation with my sister. So that afternoon I wrote him a letter and took it to interoffice to make sure it would be there for him as soon as he arrived. Next day, me and VP. "What can I do for you?" He seemed surprised I knew about this WOW in S. Carolina. Then he quickly connected the dots that I was her sister, and he became unhinged. I asked him to tell me what happened that day when he visited my sister in South Carolina, and why was she dismissed from the Wow Field. I began to tell him how coldly my parents were treated and he became flustered, loud, and thunderously declared in an intimidating manner, "She just couldn't handle the WOW field!!!!!! Any other questions???!!!!!!!!!" His manner led me to believe he felt I was asking intrusive questions that I should already know the answer to. The insinuation was, she was possessed. I felt lower than dirt for even bringing it up and upsetting "THE Man of God." I must have a lot to learn spiritually if I don't understand this, so I guess I'm just novice Corps who needs to just shut up and go away. When Mom called and asked how that turned out, I had no answers for her. My sister was even worse and my parents, new grads, were at their wits end. They eventually send her to counseling. It doesn't help. Nothing seems to help. How does a person who has been well-adjusted all her life, suddenly in the matter of two or three days, turn into a person who cannot eat or sleep, and cries 24/7? My sister eventually makes an effort to return to fellowship after about a year. So now we are talking 1976-77. She starts tentatively going back to fellowship. Because she is an advanced class grad, the branch leader decides to give her a twig. Without consulting whether or not she feels capable of leading one. He simply announces at a branch meeting that she will be the next new twig leader. She stands up, stops him, and begins to try to tell him she doesn't think she is in a position to be responsible for other people's lives yet. He thunders across the room at her how much of a cop-out she is, and that because of people like her our entire country is going to hell in a handbasket. She walked out and never went back to a fellowship again. I saw her at family gatherings and when I would come home for visits to my parents. She never, ever, while I was still in The Way ministry, spoke ONE, not ONE word against VPW or TWI. NOT ONE. 1985. VPW dies. That is what, 10 years after the incident. VPW is dead. My sister STILL has not told me what happened, and I do not ask. I have been repeatedly warned to limit her access to my heart. My sister had plenty of opportunity to say whatever she wanted, and IF she wanted to say something, she didn't. February, 1997. After decades of confronting people in TWI, and getting defamed for it, I finally leave. March 1997. Indiana leadership inform my parents they have to put my sister out of their house. Dad refuses and tells them to kiss off. Still, my sister is silent. She still has not said anything. Why? She wants to make sure our leaving is for real before she does. She doesn't want to speak too soon and then be cut out of our lives. June or July 1997. Sister purchases her first computer from Geek and we go down to Indiana to deliver it and put it together. Geek puts it together and goes upstairs. It's our first time on the internet. I put The Way International in the search engine. The first thing that comes up is M's story. I read it. I recognize her. I am shocked. My sister looks at it for the first time. She asks me, timidly, "What do you think about her story?" I was stunned. I didn't know what to say. Then my sister finally felt safe enough to let her story tumble out. She told me she had kept it to herself for so long because she was afraid no one would believe her, and that we would cut her out of her life, and we were all she had. 1975 to 1997. That's twenty two years she COULD have said derrogatory things about VPW and didn't, because she was afraid. TWELVE of those years, VPW was dead. If she was waiting for him to DIE before she brought it up, she would have brought it up TWELVE YEARS EARLIER. She kept silent out of fear of losing the only family she had. Now if you cannot understand that, I have no earthly words to describe your density.

NO, she did not wait for VPW to die. If that was true, she would have said something in 1985. She was so frightened if she told us what happened we would not believe her, and worse yet, cut her out of our lives forever. So she waited until AFTER I left TWI of my own accord before she felt safe enough to tell me what happened. That was Twenty Two years after the fact. What does that tell you about the impact VPW left on her, and how frightened she was of the power of that organization over her family, that she was afraid to tell me the truth for twenty two years? If she had an axe to grind, she would have spoken up years sooner. That's not a person with an axe to grind. That's a person who is deeply and profoundly afraid.

Yes, you have that right. What is interesting, is the persecution and character assassination of my sister did not stop with her refusal of VPW's advances in 1975. They continued, for decades after she left. I was constantly reminded not to get too close to her and to limit her access to my life. what the hell does THAT tell you about the organization? In 1997, My father was called by his twig coordinator and TOLD to throw my sister out on the street. She was living with them at the time, and helping do things for our elderly parents that were too difficult for them to do. At that time, I had just left TWI and told my parents why. So he was not surprised to get a phone call from them. My Mom and my sister were listening in on the extensions when this guy gave the order to toss her out. So there are plenty of witnesses to it. My dad told the guy-- "I crawled across Europe on my belly so that I could have a home to come back to and raise a family of my own, and I'll be damned if I will let anyone tell me I have to throw them out!" I have always been proud of my Dad for what he did in WWII, but I'm probably even MORE PROUD of the stand he took that day.

If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out..... better to enter the kingdom with one eye than be assigned to hell fire with two Oh, I forgot, that was for our learning.....

Just thought that beared repeating. That too.

Yeah, I don't know about some of the practices the blogger was discussing, such as data mining. I think if I was going to be making my living doing an online business where I had to be constantly dealing with online payments, it might matter to me. But on the other hand, there are a ton of eBayers doing it full time and using PayPal as their only means of doing business. I don't know about PayPal restricting firearms purchases, but I do know that eBay restricts certain items from being sold on their site, which might affect how you could use PayPal. I know at least a few years back when I checked, among other things, they refuse to let anyone list Nazi memorabilia, like old medals, armbands, and the like from WWII. Maybe they won't let you list guns, either. I can't remember. Anyway, PayPal and eBay are closely connected, so maybe what one allows/doesn't allow affects the other. I just know I've not ever had a problem with PayPal, but I am not what you would call a high-volume seller on that site, or for that matter a high-volume purchaser. I used to sell antiques for a company several years back on eBay, and PayPal was my only means of accepting payment for them, because that is what the company required. Good luck!

You want honesty? Here it is: I refuse to equate VPW on the same level as Solomon. I CAN read Proverbs and be blessed if I want to. I understand not only the spiritual but the historical context. And I can understand and mark, that Solomon was in some respects a PIG and a hypocrite. I think that is part of what I am supposed to learn there. If you want to post that you got blessed by something taught, fine. Be blessed. Good for you. Just don't minimize, ignore, discount, and defame those women who were victimized by what VPW did and who have the guts to say so. Also be prepared to face the fact that VPW added plaiagary to his wrongs, and many more people believe he is NOT the man he and others thougt he was, and he REFUSED to "be the man he knew to be." My purpose here is to expose the ugly underbelly of The Way International, tell the truth of what I know about Victor Paul Wierwille, Loy Craig Martindale, and others, who do not deserve the overly-high esteem in which some hold them. That purpose is specific. I am not here mostly on a recreational basis. I don't have that kind of time.

Suda, thank you for your response, and yes, we agree on so many more things than we disagree. My reason for the post was explained previously. It is to challenge someones thinking and get them to examine their values. For 10 years there have been people who have oocasionally shown up on this board and on WayDale, and on TransChat before that, who have openly stated or blatantly insinuated that: They didn't CARE what VPW did to other people, because they got blessed by what VPW did, and if a few women were abused in the process, that's life, and they probably asked for it anyway.[/b] Again, it is that attitude I challenge whenever I think I detect it. If that is not your attitude, and I don't think it is, I don't have a problem with you. Also as I have previously stated, I do not deny that there were good things that happened to some people. I simply attribute those good things to God, and not to the organization, its structure, its classes, or its programs.

You hit the nail on the head, Rascal. My sister not only waited until after VPW died to tell me what happened. She waited for TWENTY TWO MORE YEARS after the incident first occurred. She waited until both I and my parents were safely OUT of TWI. Why? She told me our family was all she had. She knew that if she told me what had really happened, we would not have believed her and she would have lost everything. And you know what? Sadly, she was right.

VP DID screw her, if you read the entire account, Oldies. And White Dove, she WAS eventually drugged, if you read the rest of the account. Again, BOTH of you should stop ignoring the above posted link. Here it is again, just in case you missed it (or are continuing to ignore it) http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...-an-affair.html

Those women did not "wait" until VP was dead. They spoke out when they found the support and healing to do so. That takes time. If you want to draw a connection between the timing of his death and when they were able to finally get healing and find support, that's your prerogative. It doesn't mean you are correct. It means you are choosing to ignore other factors involved. You also choose to ignore what I said previously about the difficulty a rape victim has about coming out to begin with. You and others here are prime examples of why so many women choose to suffer in silence rather than put themselves on public display to be REvictimized by people like yourselves.

Perhaps you should read this, Oldies. Or perhaps you should stop ignoring it: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...-an-affair.html