Catcup

How they found out where the dress came from and who bought it? Ch*ryl W*ts*n, Way Corps fashion plate of Akron who was always asking "Where did you buy that and how much did you pay," thought I had paid a lot of dough at some expensive store. She asked me and I told her. I am assuming she mentioned it to either P*n*rello or W*ll*ce and that's how they found out. Not much I did ever pleased Ch*r*l. She (and the W*ll*ces) felt I wasn't taking the advice of the household when I told her I didn't want to go on her rice diet (eat nothing but rice for several weeks!) because I was already following a well-balanced one my doctor had given me. While the P*n*rell*s felt my ankle wasn't healing because my husband didn't love me enough, Ch*r*l and the W*ll*ces felt if I only would lose weight, my ankle would heal-- that's the injury I got when I fell into an uncovered unmarked trench during ROA 95 and was prevented from seeking professional medical attention for several hours before being allowed to go to the hospital. (It was misdiagnosed as a sprain when it was actually broken). Ch*r*l dropped off a stationary bicycle at my house and the W*ll*ces insisted I use it to lose weight and "rehab" my broken ankle, even after I told them I was reluctant to use it without medical advice. Being a good little Corpse person that I was and not wanting to appear disobedient, I tried to use the stationary bicycle. Much later I found that their insistance for me to do this actually was the cause for a later surgery I had to have, to remove countless splinters of bone that had been ground into the surrounding tissue using that bike, before the break had been properly diagnosed and treated. The surgeon told me in recovery that he "picked out as much bone as he could" but there were so many pieces of tiny shattered bone that he could not get them all. And as for telling them about medication? Why, for the ministry to be able to move into the land of milk and honey, the land of the prevailing household, to cross over into their "promised land," there could be "no feeble knee among them." So the hunt was on for anyone who might be holding them back from their "goal". If you were sick, or hurt, buddy you were the problem, you were holding back the entire ministry, and you were not "living sanctified." In other words, if you had any kind, and I mean any kind of illness or physical abnormalty, you were immediately suspect You were expected to be up front and honest about every little thing going on. If they found out anything you had not told them about, they would hold that up as proof of your dishonesty and unfitness to be allowed to remain within the precious boundaries of their household. BTW, speaking of dishonesty and with holding the truth, the Way Corps were told they had to be totally debt free by ROA 95 if they wanted to remain Corps. The W*ts*ns were NOT debt free, still owned property they were trying desperately to sell even after the ROA, and conspired with other believers to sell their property and NOT TELL the W*ll*ces... oh, but we just don't apply our standards evenly, do we?

Oh, yes, lets talk some more about doing good and blessing the household. The last fellowship I attended, when I decided I would not ever return: Jos*ph*ne ran the meeting and her right hand bitch taught on how to nail evil where you find it.... This chick used this incident to illustrate her point. She turned in a little old lady who lived in the same apartment building for having a cat when it was not in her lease. --AND WAS PROUD OF IT!!!!! However, it did not bother this chick to cut our hair in her apartment and charge us money, even though her lease said she could not run a business out of her home. When she used that incident in her teaching, my 11 year old daughter and I looked at each other and were appalled at the hypocrisy and cruelty of this chick and the woman who endorsed such a thing---J*se*hine. J*se*phine also has no sense of overstepping parental bounds. After I had forbidden my daughter from taking any more candy out of a dish, she contradicted me right in front of my daughter and said she could have as much as she wanted. I left that night and informed my daughter we would never attend another Way function. The people were too corrupt and had no sense of responsibility, decency, humanity, equity, or ethics. Jos*ph*ne teaching on goodness? That's like letting Hitler speak about tolerance.

This woman knows absolutely NOTHING about "doing good" to the household. She is a gutless wonder of a weak-minded low life who couldn't stand up for the truth if it picked her up by the collar. Example: When this couple moved to Cleveland, before I even met them, I arranged for them to have a key to my home, sight unseen, so they would have a place to "land" when they hit town, even though I wouldn't be home until several hours after they arrived-- I had previously promised a dying believer I would be there with her for her first chemotherapy treatment. When I got home, only J*se*hine was there with her daughter, (who at the time I had found actually inside the rabbit cage in the back yard). After introducting myself, the very first thing I did was inform her of a particular medication my daughter needed to take-- because I knew that is what was expected of me. I told her my former Limb Coordinator also knew and had told me that if that is what her doctor felt she needed, then maybe I should listen to the doctor. She thanked me for telling her and said she understood why it was prescribed. Then we went on to discuss other pressing matters of "ministry business." A couple of months later while talking to M*rK on the phone, I mentioned purchasing the medication my daughter was on, and he went ballistic. He screamed at me and wanted to know why I never informed him. I told him I had informed his wife the very first day and moment I met her. I suppose this embarassed him. Significantly, because it highlighted a lack of communication between the two of them. From that moment on, W*ll*ce had it in for me. Several months after that, in an inquisition with the clergy in Ohio (The same one in which L*rry* P*n*r*ll*'s wife C*nn*e said that my ankle had not healed because my husband didn't love me enough) M*rk W*ll*ce angrily accused us in front of the clergy for the strangest things in order to justify our removal from The Way Corps. But this one illustrates J*s*ph*ne's spineless dishonesty: Ma*k W*ll*ce, in this inquisition with the P*n*r*llos and the state clergy, accused me of HIDING THE FACT MY DAUGHTER WAS ON MEDICATION. He railed on me for about a good half hour about it. I sat there the entire time staring at J*sep*ine, waiting for her to speak up and tell everyone in the room that I had in fact spoken to her immediately about it. Instead, J*sep*ine sat there looking down at her hands in her lap. She couldnt bear to look me in they eye while those accusations were being made. I just silently stared at her the entire time, waiting for her to look up and catch her gaze. She refused to look at me. Such a friggin WUSS. I got the sense she is afraid of her husband. Maybe he is abusive to her privately, I don't know. I DO know he is abusive to others publicly. But his woman had no guts to stand up and tell the truth. Where was her "goodness" on that day? Where was her commitment to truth, to honesty, to integrity? She has no idea what any of those things are. Then when I told the inquisition that I had informed Josephine, other clergy stepped in and began to call me a liar. Every time I would nail them on stuff, they would change the subject or become infuriated that I had challenged them. Then when I told them my former Limb Coordinator had supported my decision, they tried for a good 45 minutes to twist my words when I quoted him. They were trying to get me to say he said something I know he did not say and I refused. I know now they were looking for ammunition to use against him, because later they threw him out as well. Other reasons they tossed us out of The Corpse: We had "chapped P*nar*llo's @$$" because my husband had dared to answer a question posed to him by other Way Corps people who were preparing presentations on the Star of Bethlehem... not that he gave the wrong answer, but that he did not refer them to P*nare**o in order to get it. They were upset that when my husband was invited by Cleveland's Natural Museum to do a presentation in their planetarium that "guests" from Rome City were not publicly introduced (They WERE privately introduced to the curator after the program). --It was the Museum's gig, not ours....we didn't tell them how to run a show my husband was a guest speaker in.... They were apparently upset also that at the HoHo party for the Way Corps, that my daughter showed up in a dress that was bought at (gasp!) K-MART, and that my husband had bought it instead of me. Hell, I trusted my husband to do it, thought it looked nice and was appropriate for what everyone else wore... black velvet knee length skirt with a white silk top and pink waist ribbon.... These people know NOTHING about honesty, integrity, truth, and especially goodness...

Judging-- I don't know. It's part of God's job, but it is also part of ours, and required in order to separate good from evil, right from wrong. The harsh light of the truth needs to be shed on what occurred inside that cornfield cult. And the harsh light of the truth is what Craig needs to apply to what he did. Or it may eventually destroy him. He is the one who has to come to grips and be honest before God about what he did to his sisters and brothers in Christ-- without trying to rationalize or justify his actions. And he needs to make reparations in some form or fashion. As much for himself as for anyone he apologizes to or compensates for losses he caused. He is the one who has to live with what he did. I mean... there were countless marriages broken up and lives destroyed.... and I mean destroyed. Only God knows how many people physically died because of the doctrines and treatment by those who represented the interests of The Way International and carried out Martindale's demands. Untold numbers of suicides occurred because people could not live with what was done to them. How does a person come to acknowledge their responsibility in something like that? But I fear that the only way he can live with it is to deny his responsibility. Take a look at the Nuremburg trials. People either denied responsibility outright or proudly declared what they did was justified. If the man truly comes to grips with the extent of the damage he caused to so many thousands of peole, it will be an impossible load to carry alone. And in the end, it may do him in anyway. Unfortunate, but guilt can do this to a person. I'm sure he knows how to find me if he wants to talk. I'm willing to listen. But I'm not holding my breath. It's likely the conscience died long ago.

When Craig got hit with the poop paper, it really threw him for a loop. On his way back from visiting Gartmore at CG's behest, and being hit full face with CG's accusations out of the blue, Craig diverted his plans and had a little stopover at O'Hare on the way home. He called in Fr*nK Sc**fe who was ordained clergy and a trusted friend at the time to quick come to the airport and talk to him.... it was an emergency. Before Fr*nk even got home, he immediately called me and insisted I pray with him right now for Craig. Fr*nk said Craig was in such dire mental straits, he was truly afraid that without divine intervention Criag would commit suicide before he even got back to HQ. It was THAT BAD. For some length of time, Craig was definitely depressed and confused. He was like a whipped puppy. Used to everyone beating up on him verbally and insulting him to his face and publicly. I am convinced that for some time he was simply "handled" by close friends. I went to see him in his suite at Word in Business, probably in 87 (?) --when it was in Chicago. This was shortly after Ralph et al and the incident at I think the Ohio TC's meeting? Anyway, Ralph publicly confronted him-- a big scene. When Craig let me in, I had never seen him like that before. He was not himself. He never looked at me, just let me in and stood there with his arms folded across his chest like he was waiting for me to lay into him. I really felt so sad for him at that time. That day, I talked with him at length about Job and the miserable comforters. That seemed to move him. Nothing else I said did. I had written several letters to the trustees at around that time, confrontational ones, and even got an apology from Don Wierwille in response (BTW, he was the ONLY trustee to apologize to me for "misrepresenting God" And I respect him for that). After talking with Craig at WIB, I was convinced that he was sorry for whatever mistakes he had made and he wanted to correct the problems. Because I felt he was sincere, I told him he had my support, and from that time onward I and my husband did everything we could to help him, encourage him, and support him with research and in teaching. My encouragement from Job was this: Job was repentant. And God gave Job back double. And if God did that for Job, he can do it for you and the ministry: double the people, double the quality of the Word. Double. It's a promise from God. There were several people around him, not just us, who encouraged Craig. I know I sent him among other things, some stuff on Galatians on what it was to help someone overtaken in a fault. Someone else also I believe in the 17th Corps (?) did the same. This and other support encouraged him to take charge of his own life and find a way up and out of his depression. I believe he was very truthful with TWC when he shared what a mental fog he was in. I saw it. I wasn't the only one, either. I can't vouch for what he may have been medicated with for some time, but I don't doubt that he was. He surely could have used it and if he did, it probably saved his life at the time. As for him planning anything during 87-89, I don't think so. Just getting from one day to the next was about all he could do until he got his feet back underneath him. I believe he could have turned things around right about the time he understood he had made some mistakes and seemed to me to be sorry and wanted to correct them. He understood God forgave him and wanted to move forward, but was still suffering an onslaught of abuse (spell that consequences) from people he had offended. Hence, the miserable comforter connection. That was comforting to a certain extent and I encouraged him in using that scripture to enable his recovery. In my opinion, due to my unique point of view (and yours may differ-- that's fine with me and I will not argue with it), I think Craig was at a crossroads at this point and if he so desired, could have made a big turnaround for himself and for TWI, if he were truly repentant. However, he took the wrong fork in the road. Instead of concentrating on correcting his own problems and those at HQ, Craig railed on those who were accusing him of sins he felt God had forgiven him for. Instead of understanding those things as consequences of his own behavior and accepting it and moving beyond it to take responsibility, apologize, and fix the problems, he drew a bead on CG and anyone who had opposed him and was still opposing him, and let his anger dominate his thinking. IMO, opening and yielding to his anger opened a spiritual pandora's box. Instead of attending to his own issues, Craig buried the truth regarding his own mistakes instead of honestly admitting them. He never got around to understanding he did in fact NOT have a right to any woman he chose. As soon as he got his confidence back, he let his anger grow to monstrous and uncontrollable proportions against people he felt had betrayed him. Then Craig honed in on his pet projects of "cleaning out the household" of anyone who he felt might betray him again, and unleashing torrents of anger toward them, and exploiting any other issues or people he desired. I believe had he truly been repentant, things could have changed. Because when ANYONE repents truly, God can then work with them and work miracles if a person is willing. But there was not a willing nor repentant heart. And he became threefold the child of hell he was before, exploiting the weak and perverting the doctrine. That's my point of view, my opinions, from my own unique perspective. Yours may differ. That's your right.

Thanks Mo. There are some of us who went into TWC because we really did want to dedicate our lives in service to God and to His people, not because we were interested in becoming little Hitlers. Unfortunately, for those of us who felt called to service, we found ourselves increasingly hemmed in by demands of TWI that contradicted what we knew in our hearts we should do. For us to have continued with TWI, to continue to obey the kind of heinous commands we were being given, I felt we would have had to kill something inside of us in order to carry out those commands against God's precious inheritance. Some of us tried to hang on and change the organization from the inside out in order to save what we felt was God's ministry that had been somehow hijacked. We could not do it. It was too far gone to fix. And I feel obligated to tell the truth of what I know and expose the evil we found.

Another post script: If you think TWI has changed since LCM left, think again. The monster M*rk W*ll*ce who demanded such a thing and made such a threat... WAS A PAID FULL TIME MINISTER REPRESENTING THE INTERESTS OF THE WAY INTERNATIONAL when he did this thing, AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE, HE STILL IS. Last time I heard, he was a region coordinator.

And by the way-- That man and the entire group that was marked and avoided that we welcomed back to TWI-- They remain obedient to TWI to this day... BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID THEY WILL DIE IF THEY LEAVE.

Yes, this man still wanted to be part of The Way International. Even after the Limb Coordinator blamed him for practically murdering his own wife because he didn't "take the lead" in his family and forbid his wife from collecting figurines... And everyone that had been marked and avoided in that fellowship also wanted desperately to come back to TWI even after this woman's death was laid at their feet because they never "confronted" her for having angels in her home... These people were desperate to come back to fellowship, even though at this woman's funeral, the Limb Coordinator took over the funeral contrary to the woman's mother's wishes, making a circus out of the event and treated the grieving mother like a piece of trash at her own daughter's funeral... This group of about 5 -6 people grasped our welcome back to fellowship like drowning people reaching for anything that floats in a hurricane. Why? Because they truly believed that a woman could physically die because she had porcelain figurines in her home, and... Because they truly believed that they were indeed responsible for the physical death of a woman they dearly loved, and... Because they were crushed under a ton of Way-induced guilt, and... They were afraid of what might happen to THEM if they remained on the outside of God's perfect "household." In other words, they were deathly afraid they would die too, if they weren't allowed back inside. This man finally got rid of her clothing and angel collection, but still held on to several pieces of antique furniture, and the little pet dog that his wife loved so well. But when M*rk W*ll*ce found out he kept these things, and that the stepdaughter was being babysat by her unbelieving grandmother, he was angered. W*ll*ce demanded that I require this poor man to forbid his stepdaughter from being around her grandmother. Understanding the strong family bonds I was being asked to break and what that would mean, I asked M*rk, "What do you want me to tell him if he refuses?" To that he replied, "You tell him Who does he want next in his family to die!" Faithful Way Corps that I was at the time, I was very torn at what I was being asked to do. I sat down with this man and told him I understand this is difficult, but this is what M*rk was asking him to do. When I told him that M*rK W*lla*e demanded his stepdaughter never be cared for by her grandmother again, this man broke down in tears. And at this time, I too, began to cry. He told me he simply could not ask his mother in law to never see her own flesh and blood granddaughter again. This grown man shook with sobs at the thought of having to do this. He said he couldn't. Then I had to tell him what M*rK W*ll*ce told me to tell him. Yes, I told him. I will admit to being M*rk W*llace's wicked messenger. I did it. I told him while crying, but I told him. This grown man totally broke down in front of me. And I could not take it. I told him he would have to make a decision. But I made up my mind I would never ASK him whether or not he was going to comply. I simply didn't want to know. I felt like it was none of my business. So I never asked again, and he never offered to tell me. It was that night that my husband and I agreed that we could no longer do to people what The Way International was asking us to do to them. It was cruel and inhuman. Not too long afterwards, we stopped running our fellowship. Several months after that, I made the decision to never go back to one. This death outside The Way issue is something Craig actively and vociferously taught-- and I was present when he said before an entire auditorium of witnesses, that he wished God would give him revelation that he could "just pray and CERTAIN people would just DROP DEAD!" People in TWI are STILL deathly afraid to leave the organization for fear that they will drop dead. [This message was edited by Catcup on March 22, 2004 at 11:36.]

Goey-- ..."a stupid little cult that thrives by controlling a few peoples lives while selling them "protection" for for 10-15 percent of their income." HOW TRUE!!!!!!!! Jim-- "What if a man doesn't keep the engine compartment of his car clean? Will he get a prostate infection?" I'm sure TWI would find that as a good enough reason! But on a more serious note: When we first came to the Cleveland area, there was a fellowship that had been disbanded and the entire group marked and avoided because of a death that occurred in their fellowship. It seems the wife of the fellowship coordinator enjoyed a collection of porcelain angels that she had throughout her home. Except when she knew the Anal Corps were coming to visit, she would quickly sweep all the figurines onto shelves in her bedroom. One day she was found dead in her home. When The Anal Corps came to visit afterwards, they found the angels. They then proclaimed that her death had occurred not only because she was collecting angels (debbil spurts, y'know), but also because collectively the people in the fellowship knew she had the collection but never "confronted" her about it. Ya think it might have had something to do with the fact that she had cystic fibrosis and had already lived much longer than her life expectancy? Or maybe the fact that because she was embarassed she wasn't strong enough to get healed, that she stopped using oxygen in order to "act" on her "believing?" Nah, it was those damn dust-catching, devil-spirit magnet angels she had in the house. So the limb coordinator told the guy to get rid of not only the angels, but everything else his wife had owned including clothing and furniture. AND they marked and avoided HIM and his ENTIRE TWIG for not "speaking up." Loving group of people, those wayfers. It was this group of people we brought back into the fellowship when we came to Cleveland. However, it was also this man that M*r* W*ll*ce demanded I threaten him with "Who do you want next in your family to die" if he allowed his stepdaughter to visit her unbelieving grandmother, who had been deprived of her only other living relative when she lost her daughter to cystic fibrosis. Yeah, real loving folks. [This message was edited by Catcup on March 22, 2004 at 2:41.]

Hope, Thanks for giving this chronology. Unless people lived under LCM's totalitarian regime, they have no idea what it was like to have people invading their homes, their finanaces, their families, their personal lives, and ripping apart their marriages in the name of "living sanctified." That catchphrase justified more persecution among TWI followers than any other single idea promulgated by a pervert at the helm of the organization. Under that banner, marriages were assaulted and individual lives were destroyed both figuratively, and literally. More fear and malignant hate was openly thundered from that pulpit by Craig Martindale at that time than at any other time in TWIs history. What people desperately need to realize is that although the man who originated these pogroms is now no longer at HQ, his policies, procedures, and teachings are still in place and still followed, indicating that nothing has changed in that organization other than the masks of evil.

Hitler had great crowds at his rallies. China is pretty full as well. As I am sure Hell will be too.

Keeping 3x5 cards or other type files on people has been a long-time habit of TWI, especially on The Way Corps. What do you think your Way Corps File held BEFORE they returned it to you? It was purged of any "negative" stuff before they gave it back.

Back in 1995-96 I sent Martindale a list of songs in the Sing Along The Way that contained lyrics that contradicted the doctrines held by TWI at the time since they were so anal about accuracy in their publications and public teachings. He thanked me. But nothing ever came of it. In order to get permission to publish some of the songs in the book, they have to be printed as the copyright holder requests. In the singing of some of those songs, the congregation supplies the "accurate" word or phrase. However, in many of them, the words or phrases are not changed. Which begs the question... Are they really concerned with accuracy? I think we all know the answer to that one. How can it be "harmful" spiritually to sit and listen to doctrines from "other" sources, yet not harmful to mindlessly sing the same doctrines in their songs? Buncha hypocritical mindless idiots

If Mr. Allen had not had the brass balls to confront Loy Craig Martindale, he would still be enjoying the benefits of the presidency of The Way International. Many people at HQ and elsewhere knew what was going on and weren't about to rock the boat, because they were being kept silenced with benefits of their own. The most guilty person of all in not speaking up is Rosalie the Fox Rivenbark. Her silence in the face of adultery and alleged sexual abuse makes her complicit in the crime. The fact that TWI keeps her on as president of The Way International is proof in an of itself of the corruption of the organization. The Word says that if a ruler hearkens to lies, all his advisors are evil. They are ALL evil, every last one of them. There is no salvaging of such an institution that is worm-eaten and chronically infested with such corruption. The institution needs to be scrapped. Harvey and the entire BOD that KNOW of Rosie's complicity are convicted of corruption in that they allow her to remain unchallenged. But for the Allens, Martindale would still be ensconced in the presidency. [This message was edited by Catcup on March 21, 2004 at 16:31.]

After being the victim of a crime, it is important to not let the experience destroy you, but to use the experience in a positive way. One of the most constructive things a person can do is use their experience to help others avoid the same thing happening to them. That's not bitterness. That's courage.

"Things blew up after the law suits so now they're in damage control mode. "We looooooooove youuuuuuuu." Yep, that's the same thing they did after POP and fellowships got small-- yes, they kept things low-key and very "sweet" and "lovey dovey" to keep the money from walking out the door. And they are doing the same thing again. TWI is biding its time, hoping that all of us who posted on WD and were so willing to lend our first hand testimony to actual deposition will tire and go away. They are hoping that those who decimated TWI's ranks by being courageous enough to tell the truth, exposing TWI's ugly underbelly will eventually tire of having to keep what happened in front of people. They are waiting for us to all go away, for things to "calm down" and for people to FORGET. And as soon as that happens, you can bet your bottom dollar that the teeth and razor blades will be back in full force, continuing to rip peoples lives to shreds. It's what they have always done.

And if you truly believe that the reason TWI asks people all those personal and invasive questions to do anything other than gain leverage against them, you are very very sadly mistaken. Gullible is not even the word for it.

I will repeat this. If The Way International is as "cleaned up" as they say it is, why havent' they: *Looked up all the people they KNOW they did wrong to and apologize? (Nah, it would just open the door for more questions, now wouldn't it-- and they don't want to answer those.) *Get rid of people like M*rK W*ll*ce who ACTUALLY ASKED ME TO THREATEN AN INDIVIDUAL WITH THE DEATH OF SOMEONE IN THEIR FAMILY IF THEY DISOBEYED. Yes, I said it here, and I offered to swear to it in a court of law AND STILL DO. (For all you wonderful folks at Baker & Hostettler et al) This is not, I repeat NOT a cleaned up organization. This old song and dance about the ones who left being the cause of the problem is the excuse tyrants have used throughout history to get rid of people who expose them for what they do.

Johniam Nope, I've had too many other research projects to keep up with to do an extracurricular one. However, the research I have done on it sits on a shelf not two feet from my computer. Just to remind me I want to finish it. Maybe this summer?

I want to encourage those of you who think you might not have much of a first hand account to tell, to simply tell what you DO know. Because sometimes it is a snippit of something here and a little something there, that helps put the huge jigsaw picture together for folks. And you folks who have something to tell, don't let the naysayers get you down. They can thunderbluss all they want to, but YOU WERE THERE and YOU SAW it first hand, and that is a powerful witness. So continue to speak boldly and plainly and truthfully what you have experienced first hand. And as for admitting what they did wrong, HELL NO they DON'T. If they did, they would toss out everything LCM taught and all the bad decisions he made, but they continue to implement his policies and procedures and teach his vomitous bile as the truth of God's Holy Word. And ANY organization that would back a perverse fool like M*r* W*ll*ce, whom I understand they still have in a high leadership position, is vile and devilish. Anyone who would back up such a vicious dog who took joy in scaring the $hit out of an innocent 11 year old girl should never be in charge of anyone else's life. Anyone who would instruct me to make death threats to a fellowship member if they allowed their stepdaughter to visit her "unbelieving" grandmother, as far as my own personal opinion, that man shouldn't be trusted with taking out the trash, but instead, he is charge of what, an entire region last time I heard? And if TWI regrets the ugly behavior of L*rr* & C*nn** P*n*re**o, then why don't they send letters of apology to the entire group of Way Corps he told were so evil and rotten they were responsible for LCM's physical ailments and they should get up and move immediately out of the state! TWI, if it were serious about admitting the errors they made, would be busy righting the wrongs and injustices they perpetrated upon innocent people. My phone isn't ringing yet. I'm not holding my breath either. And yes, if this information is not kept in front of people, it will happen again. So please, keep telling it. And BTW it is good to learn to develop your own ideas and opinions when you leave TWI. Perhaps the reason it can get so passionate here at times is because people are just learning to do so after being intellectually stifled in that cornfield cult for several decades. So we do need to exercise more patience with each other. But at times we need to ask ourselves when it is best to cool the bickering and get some perspective, especially when there seems to be no profit involved. When I post I try to not only be mindful of the people actually seen on the thread, but also those who only lurk-- Both those who are looking to leave TWI, and those who would try to prevent the escape of funds from TWI's coffers. My comments and challenges are to them as well. If we forget who else is listening, we do them and ourselves a disfavor. Personally I'd like to see some unification and purpose behind exposing TWI and commitment to see these things kept in view. We are more powerful together than divided. And remember, divide and conquer has always been TWI's modus operandi, in the organization as well as on this website. [This message was edited by Catcup on March 16, 2004 at 13:35.]

Oh hell yeah, home inspections. Informally at first. I remember how M*rK W*ll*ce at a TC meeting ripped into how horrible this woman's house looked when he went to visit her after a chemotherapy treatment. Just because she had "dishes in her sink". Dishes in her sink. She had debbil spirits and that's why she was dying of cancer. And she was so awful because her dishes weren't done. Hell, she was pukin her guts out. What did he expect? The difference between him and a REAL leader? A real leader would have had the compassion to do the woman's dishes for her. What an .....

Or have people forgotten? It could be that I just haven't been hanging around frequently enough to get to know you all, and haven't read enough of your posts, because I don't post here or read here as much as I used to. I used to post pretty heavily on WayDale, which had a much different focus than GS. Not that GS is bad, it's just different, that's all. Different purpose in mind. I don't get around much on GS these days except for the last week or so of spring break. And must admit that I don't have the time to read all the threads, and so many folks here at the cafe are new to me. And being that I haven't had the time to read all the threads and follow along closely,I am not aware of the nuances of different peoples' beliefs and opinions anymore. But I get the distinct impression that people may have forgotten exactly how harsh TWI has gotten over the years, and are not acquainted with many of the issues brought forward and which used to be specifically kept in front of people's minds regarding TWI's exact doctrines, and first hand accounts of the evils people specifically suffered at their hands. But I get the impression folks have forgotten how bad it was.... and still is. Things haven't changed there. I just want to make the point, that if your stories have faded off the site or have been deeply archived, people aren't reading them anymore. And history tells us that if we do not remember, people will forget. And if they forget, new folks will never know. And history will tragically be repeated. Just a friendly reminder. The importance of sharing FIRST HAND accounts of what you suffered cannot be over emphasized. Share your stories, learn to form your own opinions, and have fun. I'll see you 'round the Spot from time to time. It's back to school for me now. "Tear out our hearts--- and they will fatally wound you." Hans Scholl

"Many of us, I would think the majority of followers saw VPW standing by the principles he taught in PFAL. “VPW taught in front of a large group of WOWs "to keep it in your pants"”" ************************* I can tell you definitively that VPW did NOT stand by the advice he gave his WOWs. As a matter of fact, my sister was booted off the field for pretty much KEEPING that advice when he wanted her to forget all about it in his motor coach. So please, no lectures on this man's morals. LCM learned from him very well. "Tear out our hearts--- and they will fatally wound you." Hans Scholl

Dot I remember those sheets we had to fill out in 15 minute increments: Redeemed Time Analysis Sheets.... I still have copies. It is unbelievable what they made us do. And yes, this was manipulation by fear. After hanging around TWI and being taught for at least two decades that "no one else has the Word like we do," eventually LCM came out and started teaching that not only does no one have the Word like TWI, but that there was no SAFETY outside the boundaries of "The Household." In otherwords, if you left TWI or were kicked out, that absolutely horrible things would happen to you not only spiritually, but physically as well. He used countless "examples" of how people had died or gotten shot or sick or had horrible tragic things occur "because they left the protection of the household." His wife Donna made a big deal out of the girl who was killed in the plane crash "because her parents left The Way." Hey, this was doctrine, and we were taught that there was no other God than what TWI taught and that there was no safety outside His "household," which was The Way International, period. After breaking my ankle in an uncovered trench that TWI left open during the ROA 95, Connie P*n*a*ello had the gall to yell at me and my husband that my ankle was not healing because my husband "didn't love me enough." Never mind the fact that after I broke it, it was nearly 3 hours before they allowed me to seek medical attention and then it was misdiagnosed at the hospital. M*rK Wa**ace literally screamed at us at the top of his lungs, that if we "did not get a passion for the truth" that I would be "hobbled for life", my husband would "die a lonely old man," and that my daughter would "become a stark raving lunatic." This he actually screamed within earshot of my 11 year old daughter. This frightened her so much that several months later when I announced that I had decided not to ever go to another fellowship, she became hysterical because she did not want me to be in a wheelchair, she did not want her father to die, and she did not want to go insane. People in TWI were intimidated into obedience because we didn't want to be outside God's protection and we were taught that the only place to get that was TWI. It was Gestapo fear tactics and brainwashing. "Tear out our hearts--- and they will fatally wound you." Hans Scholl