Catcup

Just trying to imagine Debra Sleepr in that bunny outfit nearly made me lose my breakfast!

That's right-- he wanted a restaurant, etc. Sort of a Way Ranch Theme Park where Wayfers could fish, hike, hunt, ride horses, etc. What a vision. Let's allow the believers to develop the property with their own money, wring as much of it out of their pockets as possible, and then keep their properties in the end. I think too many people saw through that one. So they turned it into a "training ground" for The Way Corps, and a nice BOD getaway. Now that there are only 5 new Way Corps Grads (I still can't get over that one!), it simply is a property that continues to appreciate in value that they can sell and use to live off of if things get rough. Would to God it was sold and given to the people TWI financially devastated over the years for "protection money," i.e. "abundant" sharing.

I remember when they first bought Gunnison, VP actually did advertise it as a place for not only training Way Corps and doing family camps, but also for Wayfers to vacation. Several couples who got married in our Gang Wedding thought about actually honeymooning there (1978). Not only did VP offer it as a place for Wayfers to vacation, but he even put out the idea that believers could build vacation or retirement homes on that land. It was at a Rock of Ages, when VP first floated the idea. He said he would allow believers to build retirement or time-share type vacation homes there. When the believers weren't using them, then The Way would have access to the home to use it for The Way Corps, or visitors, etc. There would of course be standards for the kind of construction, etc. But the steal of the deal was this: When the original owners died, the property would revert back to Der Veg. As I remember, the offer was on the table for only a very short period of time. Not many people took VP up on his offer. That little thingy about the property reverting back to Der Veg after a person's death kinda made things go over like a lead balloon. That was the same kind of offer Bo Reahard got when VP gave him and Stanley a "wedding gift" of a plot of land near the campfire where they could build their dream home, which they did. It worked so well with Bo and Stanley, VP decided he would try it with the general Wayfer public to see how many free properties the ministry might be able to get with this offer. Not in their wildest dreams, did Bo & Stanley figure that after they left TWI, they would be locked out of the home they built on that land with their own money, a home now worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, without one red cent in compensation.

The reporter told me he was looking through police reports in Berea for stories to write about and came across the report I filed. It piqued his interest in Martindale, and so he started digging around and calling people.

No regrets, sky... no worries.

It was posted on WayDale. By someone other than me. Actually, the person who originally posted the story was very furious with LCM when they found out, and wanted to expose what he did. They posted without first checking with me.

Yes, Shaz, you nailed the information I was hesitant to post. I am not degreed in psychology yet, but it is my major. And in discussing the incident with several people who DO have a Phd in the field, we came to the same conclusions you did. Among other disorders. But that's the primary one.

I was going to ignore this article, but it ended up here anyway. And then I heard Grizz call my name :)-->... You want an explanation, here it is: My husband and I had worked closely with Martindale on research for years, and I specifically had been a personal supporter of Martindale during his very rough years post POP. Also because of past access, we were in the peculiar position to know Martindale, and particularly to know how he reacts to stress, pressure, and specifically his psychological behavior under duress. After leaving TWI and finding out what had been going on under my nose all those years, and what happened to the Allens, I began posting vociferously on WayDale and publicly challenging Martindale, using what I know of him to get to him. I began posting information I knew and his quotes from Corps nights from my notes to expose his hypocrisy. Just prior to the incident, Martindale had "stepped down" from the presidency and become head of research. I then started a controversial thread called Why Have You Not Rather Mourned, directly challenging the BOT and TWI believers scripturally on why an accused rapist should be in charge of doctrine at HQ. The incident in question ocurred right after depositions, and in the middle of a thread where I was calling for the BOT to dump Martindale. I was one of the witnesses for the prosecution. Martindale's best friend was Mark Wallace, then the Cleveland area coordinator. Wallace had been my BC for several years, lived approximately 5 minutes from the college, and knew exactly where my daughter was every Saturday morning during specific hours since 4th grade: orchestra rehearsal at BW Conservatory of Music. The morning in question, we had no idea Martindale had just been fired, and evicted from his multi-million dollar home, sent packing. We were in the middle of a normal peaceful Saturday morning rehearsal hundreds of miles from New Knoxville, OH. I sat in my usual aisle seat at the very back of the auditorium with my head down, working on files while my daughter rehearsed. During that time, out of the corner of my eye, I noticed a man come in to the auditorium, walk past me and go half-way down the aisle, and sit on an aisle seat several rows in front of me. His pigeon-toed gait seemed strangely familiar, but I was too absorbed in my work to consider it further. Later I glanced up toward the stage during rehearsal. In my line of vision was the back of the balding head of the man who had taken the aisle seat. I noticed my daugher seemed unusually distracted, and kept looking into the crowd. I then resumed working. The man got up and walked out after about 10-15 minutes. I did not look up. After rehearsal, my daughter came up to me very upset. She told me "He's here." Not comprehending why she was so upset and who she was talking about, I asked her who? "Martindale," she exclaimed. She said Craig walked into the auditorium, sat down, glared at her for several minutes, then got up and walked out. I told her it simply could not be. He would have no reason to be here. He was sitting at International Headquarters hundreds of miles away from us and we had nothing to be concerned about. No, she insisted, he was definitely here. It was definitely him. She would recognize him anywhere. "Where was he sitting?" I asked. She nervously pointed to the aisle seat where the man I had noticed walking in had sat down. A chill ran down my spine for a split second. Come to think of it, the back of this guy did look like Martindale, and he definitely walked like him. But at the time it did not make sense to me that he would be here. I told my daughter that she had to be mistaken, that it was someone who looked like him. She insisted not only that it was him, but he glared at her angrily the entire time he was there and intimidated her. I blew it off. It was a case of mistaken identity. But I noticed that curiously, my daughter was clearly shaken. I'd never seen her like this. Upon returning home, I found out that not only had Martindale been fired two days earlier, but he had been made to pack up his belongings and leave headquarters. Then it made sense. Years before, after visiting Gartmore and getting blown away by Chris Geer, Martindale was rendered so mentally unstable he made an unscheduled stopover at O'Hare to talk to his then best friend, Frank Scaife, my BC. Frank called me from the airport, telling me he was afraid for Craig-- to pray for him-- he was a basket case-- Frank was truly concerned Craig would commit suicide before he got back to HQ. Craig had threatened to do it, and Frank felt he was serious enough to attempt it before the plane landed in Ohio. It settled in to me that what had just happened to Martindale was far worse than what had happened back then. And if he was suicidal then, no telling what was going through his head now. And, following his pattern, Martindale was most likely to run to his best friend, now Mark Wallace, and again, my BC, whose house was just minutes from the auditorium. I know how Craig lashed out and viciously blamed Geer and others close to him for what happened to him the first time. His anger was strong, out of proportion, and sustained, revealing a deeper problem. I knew I would be just one of the people high on his $hit list this time. It gave me chills. Now it would be within his profile to stalk anyone whom he blamed. Although I had not seen the face of the man who came into BW, my daughter did see it. Although I still had my doubts that it was actually him, I had to admit that given the circumstances, it was entirely within the realm of possibility. And above all, where the safety of my daughter is concerned, I had to believe my daughter. She is the one who saw him, she believed it was him, and she was terrified. And why would a perfect stranger come in and glare menacingly in her direction? Knowing what Martindale had at stake and had just lost, and the state of mind he was possibly in, I had to take steps to protect my family, and I did. I filed reports with the Conservatory, the Berea Police Department, the Parma and Parma Heights Police Department, and sent Martindale's photo to them and to my daughter's high school. I told them it may have been Martindale, or I may not have been. I did not see the man's face. But my daughter did, and saw enough from this person that she was intimidated. I set aside my own doubts, and did what I believe every parent needs to do when they notice their child is unusually upset: I listened to what was concerning her and I believed her. And I did what I needed to do to protect my family. At the time, I had asked those close to me who knew of the incident NOT TO POST IT ON WAYDALE. I wanted to protect my daughter's safety and privacy, and let the incident fade into the background. However, it was posted anyway against my wishes. And before long the thread disintigrated as they often do, and several ignorant posters began to pick my daughter apart. And just when I had forgotten the incident had even occurred, I got a phone call from a reporter who had discovered it going through police records in Berea and it had piqued his interest about TWI and Martindale. I spoke to him on the condition that he would NOT use my name or any other identifying information. Because I enjoy my privacy and want to protect my daughter. A friend of mine also spoke to this reporter and loaned him materials to use in preparation for the article. She, too, asked this reporter to leave out her name. The reporter unfortunately used both her name and her husband's name. The article was pointed out to her husband at work by a coworker who had no idea he had been involved in a cult. My friends were NOT amused. Neither am I. So much for not using any identifiable info. I hope I have answered your questions. If not, I will have to say too bad. I ask that you leave my daughter alone in peace and privacy on this issue.

Jim-- Yes, there were some very nice people who worked in the bookstore with us that year. Rich, the office manager was one of them. I enjoyed the late Dr. Flach, may he r.i.p. And there was a really nice, really funny guy named Jim.......................izzatchu?

Grasshopper Your quotes give a window into the crooked, perverted, manipulative, sadistic world of The Way International and the FEAR they use to keep people in subjection. I, too, spent a couple of years waiting for the other shoe to drop. Then one morning I woke up and realized that the predicted death and destruction had not come. Then eventually I realized that their predictions would not come. And I was able to see the organization for what it really is: A bloodsucking cult. And now when I drive down that country road, I see the beauty, not the devil hiding behind every billboard. You will, too.

Having been in the 6th Corps, I can vouch that: 1.) The first week in residence there was very little food. They were feeding us out of the freezer that was there when TWI bought the place. 2.) People were very very hungry. Especially the guys. 3.) That Wally Manthey would have eaten the food off of ANY plate that wasn't guarded (LOL!) 4.) That in fact, this incident did occur. Our second year in the Corps, one of my 8th Corps roommates was in need of a psych evaluation. I questioned why such a person would even be allowed in The Way Corps and was told that Mrs. Wierwille knew the family and had brought her there to "help" her in some way. However, she also inded up in catatonia and was in fact taken to a hospital. But as far as the first guy is concerned, I believe it is reprehensible for LCM to be degreed in psychology and KNOW the helpless state catatonia renders a person, and dumped him off at a bus station instead of immediately taking him across the street to the hospital in Emporia where I am sure they had a psychiactric ward or someone who could do a consult. But, that goes to show you the cold-hearted nature of that beast.

Soap Operas! Emogene's personal assistant was our roommate. She said Em had the soaps on every day and was not to be disturbed during certain hours. I knew she had a TV in her office, but I was appalled to find out she was spending her afternoons watching the soaps! Emogene was very good at managing things. That's how she got to be in charge of so many things at HQ. She kept volunteering to do the work no one else wanted to do until she amassed enormous power to herself. But she was horrible at dealing with people. I was so excited to finally be on staff. It was something I had wanted to do for many years. However, at our first department meeting, she told all of the people assembled there that, "I thought I had been assigned the cream of the crop. Now I know I got the scum from the crik!" I couldn't believe my ears. Talk about a wake up call. All my illusions about working at HQ were immediately dashed. And the year went downhill quickly from there. Oh-- and the bookstore was notorious for having to work every Thursday night. It was mandatory. I remember having to use comet cleaner and a sponge to clean tiny little marks off the walls in the front bookstore storage closet! Very important work we did on Thursday nights........ And you can thank ME for having to sign out on those bathroom visits. I got so fed up with her department that I walked out to the break room to blow off steam to our office manager. The poor guy was between a rock and a hard place. He knew how screwed up she was but he couldn't do a damn thing about it. Em got so ....ed at me she started making us all sign in and out.

For some reason, you haven't gotten my point. I said it's not my job to send VPW to one place or the other. Nor do I want that responsibility. I turn him over to God and leave him in His hands for justice. God will do as He sees fit.

Catcup: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't have the privilege of sending anyone one place or the other. Nor would I want the responsibility. I'm just tellin' ya what the man said.

Catcup: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't have the privilege of sending anyone one place or the other. Nor would I want the responsibility. I'm just tellin' ya what the man said. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please expand on what you stated and how it relates to VPW and the BOT. We learn in the epistles that folks who are born again are heaven bound, saved, having eternal life. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Not everyone who saith unto me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven: but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you suggesting then that VPW and others who are born again may not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, because of their evil works? -or- Are you suggesting that VPW and the BOT, because of their evil works, aren't saved? Please explain." My pleasure. I'll do it with your own quote:

Wastin' away again in pierogiville. Parma, OH here............

The Pharisees were not evil just to be evil. They believed in their hearts that they were actually doing God's will. Reference the fact that there had not been a prophet since the days of Malachi. They did as they were taught. They were sincere, disciplined, and dedicated to perform what they believed in their hearts was the will of God. Not unlike a cornfield cult in New Knoxville, Ohio. An organization that if indeed God had sent prophets there, they were summarily chased out, dumped, and defamed.

Quotes: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmmm and what will he do with our bad works in the lord? The ugly destructive things that we did because twi told us that God required it? Is he gonna honor them too, because we did it in his name? Are the acts any less evil or the destruction any less damaging because we did it in God`s name? Is our culpability any less because our *motives* were good? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think all that depends on the mind set and intent of the person making the decision, whether good or evil. Both good and evil were manifest in twi, therefore both good and evil applies. I think God and Jesus, who have perfect understanding, are the ultimate Judges of these matters, matters of the intent of the heart and soul of a man. ____________________________________ To quote another more famous, more humble, and more spiritual person, "Not everyone who saith unto me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven: but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." And: "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7: 21-23. I don't have the privilege of sending anyone one place or the other. Nor would I want the responsibility. I'm just tellin' ya what the man said.

Could you question the leadership up and down the line and still remain in good standing? Could you openly criticize errors without being ostracized? Could you have a mortgage and still run a fellowship in your home? Could women have an opinion and not be expected to shut up and "ask your husband at home?" And are they going to publicly and privately apologize to each and every person they wronged by their now-admitted heavy-handedness and make reparations to us? I didn't think so.

Yes, what Outandabout said. And if they are so kinder and gentler, and understand that the previous actions they took were wrong, where is the apology to those they harmed? They stomp all over people, destroy them, and walk on like it never happened. I think there is record in the OT of a whore who wipes her mouth and denies her act. Just like TWI. Slut.

apostle: One who spews new hoops for the peons to jump through. Evangelist: One who hooks fresh meat to exploit. Pastor: One who keeps sheep in the fold via threats of death and destruction Teacher: One who flavors vile regurgitations with enough honey to get the peons to suck it down again. Prophet: We ain't got no frikkin' prophets-- we ran them all off!

What's the matter? Don't you want to share your heart with me?= What's the matter? Everybody sucks my **** when I command them to.

Fer cryini' out loud! I wish someone would have come out and frikkin told me in 1972 just what the hell I was gettin' myself into! I'da run like hell!

Damn, Ev! I had no idea what was happening in Kipp Hall while I slept on the other side of the grounds! I am still surprised by what went on in our Corps that I did not know about!

If they "got rid of the dictators," then they are admitting they were dictatorial. Their apologies to those of us whom they injured grievously "in the 90's" have evidently not yet been bulk-mailed. I haven't got mine yet, have you? Not holding my breath. PS-- and as long as Mark and Josephine Wallace are featured in Way Ragazines and as Region Coordinators..... Nah, not one thing has changed. Still the same gut-stripping, dagger-weilding, knife-you-in-the-back-while-giving-you-air-kisses vile serpents are in charge. Just give them time. You (innies), too, will need antivenom.