Catcup

Yeah, to me that's fishy.

Satori, "My husband and I got our eyes smacked wide open when we went on staff in 1982 and saw how entrenched the corruption was. We left, went back to Chicago and prayed for a change back then." There is nothing in those two sentences that say we were kicked out of HQ. I said WE LEFT. WE left. AFTER seeing the corruption. WE LEFT implies WE made the decision. How you read that we were fired or "booted" in that post, is beyond me. And by the way, that post has a context, relating to the purpose of the thread, which you did not include. That's your own interpretation. You READ that INTO what I said. There was nothing misleading in my statement. I don't know how many times I have posted the details of our leaving HQ on the internet exactly-- but I know it was posted more than several times on WD and possibly here. In that post, I included the details relating to the context, the purpose of the thread. But I DO know, that in NO place did I EVER say that we were "booted out" of HQ by TWI. And I DO know, in other posts regarding that subject, that I made it perfectly clear that we left on our own accord, especially in posts where I gave the details of MY calling the meeting and taking on a confrontation of 3 and 4 people at once at the placements meeting in the BRC regarding the corruption I found. I can't expect you to remember every little detail I have posted. I don't. But I do expect that of what I DID post, you would read what is written, and not put YOUR OWN SPIN on it. But then again, that's what you do, oh so well. Apology? I only saw a back-handed justification of your erroneous action. Reminds me of someone shouting "I'm sorry!" who is not remorseful for the agitation caused, just frustrated he lost the argument. I'm taking my daughter's cue. You can stay here and defend your ignorance and justify your stupidity on this thread all you want. I'm not playing your game.

I know my daughter and her friends are not like some of the rowdier teens her age, but I do not think that they are at all uncommon. My daughter and her best friend, Fatin, would have done something exactly like the two teens in this story. And, they would have declined going to any party where drinking and drugs are likely. They instead would have stayed home and baked cookies, or entertained friends, rather than attend or hold a drunken party, like the girl across the street does when her Mom isn't home (they all think she's slutty). As a matter of fact, when we allowed our daughter to have a graduation party, around thirty of her friends attended. We had to end up tossing the last of them out and driving them home at around 3:00 a.m. because they were just having too much fun. And what, no beer, no drugs? Nope, just pizza, wings, cake, ice cream, music, DVDs, Video games, swimming, and even a hula hoop contest. My Mom and Dad attended, and Dad was amazed and delighted. He said it did his heart good to see so many kids having so much fun without all the negative activity so often associated with this age group. This group of kids are really tight knit and have made a commitment to be drug-free and chaste. And as far as I know, only one of them attends a church. And I recently witnessed something that affirmed my faith in these kids. Recently a girl who was new to this circle of friends went out with a boy her parents had forbade her to see. She lied to her mother and told her she was going over to Fatin's house. But Fatin wasn't home, she was at my house with Jenny. When the girl's Mom called my house trying to track her down, it ....ed Fatin off. She said, I'll bet she's with so and so. She and Jenny jumped into the car and tracked the both of them down and caught them together. Fatin confronted the girl for using her to lie and sneak around her parent's instructions and told her if she EVER did it again, she would go straight to her parents. There are kids out there who actually believe in keeping themselves as clean and straight as possible in order to achieve their goals of getting a decent education and pursuing professional careers, which they are all too aware can be derailed if they get sidetracked into drugs, alcohol, or pregnancy. There are kids out there who even respect their parents and obey them, even if they disagree with them, because they simply believe it is the right thing to do. The only thing I think those kids in the article could have done differently, is answer the woman when she asked who was there. Being silent was wrong, and yeah, could scare an elderly person at night and alone. And that yes, could put an elderly ill person in the hospital. But hell, I think the old lady should have accepted their apology. NOT sue them!

For some weird reason, Craig and other leadership in the Corps were fierce fans of using reverse psychology on us-- telling us what losers we were in hope of getting us to determine to prove them wrong. I chalked it up to their earlier athletic training, where it is commonly used. But I always believed it to be wrong. At the moment I can't think of a single place in the Bible where it was used, and I NEVER used it on anyone else. I felt it contradicted what I believed our purpose in the body of believers was: to build people up and edify them. There was nothing edifying about being berated.

I never went to any of Sunny's meetings, and I barely remember the dismissal incident, but it's coming back to me now. I hadn't thought about that in years. And yeah, it was after she left that LCM really capitalized on his position. Although he could be fun (I remember that early morning squirt gun fight with him dressed up in ridiculous clothing, hiding behind support posts and squirting people nodding off), he began to take the mental "training" too far. Once at a very early morning (or was it a late night deal?) up on the top floor of the Wierwille library, he was stressing the importance of retemory and the stayed mind. And suddenly he began to verbally berate us as a group, telling us how weak we were, what a poor excuse for human beings we were, all the while we were supposed to be running retemories through our heads. I think he began to enjoy the abuse a little too much. It became part and parcel of his personality. I also remember one very late night after a long meeting, we were all to meet on the circle drive in front of Kenyon Hall in our sweats. Martindale put us through a bunch of grueling physical exercise and verbal abuse. It made me feel really creepy when at the end, all the jocks hoisted Craig up on their shoulders and carried him around, literally, as if worshipping him, thankful for the abuse he had just put us all through. It really turned me off. And Craig lapped it right up. I expected to be trained to be physically and mentally tough. But even then, I thought that the people who hoisted him up had crossed the line into some kind of weird hero worship. Martindale had his own personality cult within the 6th Corps that first year in 1975. A bunch of little Martindales who acted just like him. I dreaded seeing them go out on the interim year because I felt in my heart they might do a lot of damage, trying to run their branches the way Craig ran the Corps. But I thought, hey, if they get too far out on that ego trip, somebody will nail them. Well, not when the guy running the outfit was on the biggest one of all.

And so Satori proceeded to continue to try to rip people apart with no apparent concern for anyone other than himself.

My second post was concern for someone who was already getting pecked to death: "It disheartens me to see people come here, try to make a decent point, fill in the missing pieces about a significant event, and they get derailed and picked to pieces, and mired down in the details of having to defend themselves against whatever some cyberbully decides to pick on. This behavior actually mimicks what TWI did to us: strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel-- pick at one detail to the neglect of the main body of witness. This happens way too often here these days, and it's too damn bad. That's the mildest way I can put it. You know what HCW, those of us who were going to "get" the heart of what you wanted to share, GOT it. You have no obligation to explain yourself to people who truly don't give a damn about what you were trying to explain. Don't even try. Some folks here who think they are so enlightened (0N BOTH SIDES OF AN ISSUE), just hang out to tear folks down in order to build up their own egos. There is the basic context of my second post which Satori found so personally offensive to himself. You should have a concern for the individual and for truth. But then again, you can't tell the difference between truth and falsehoods in your own head. I can't expect you to have concern for anyone other than your own skin.

Believing no one other than himself is capable of independent thought, Satori believes he's being ganged up on by people "coaching" HCW. It's either arrogance or paranoia. And for anyone who cares to check, I was minding my own business before Satori addressed me as "Catbox" and made the comment about Festivus. A man who declares to be concerned about the truth who says his false accusations against me were not really a lie because he believed them to be true. This man is more concerned about the truth regarding how an inanimate object was built, than the truth about a human being. Don't fool yourself into thinking he gives a rat's foot about Rochelle. He's more interested in covering his.

Ya gotta love those ducks, dabobbady!

Curiously, this is the second time this month I have run into people who are adamantly wrong about what they believe and insist they got the information from this site. When pressed, neither can come up with evidence from GSC of their claims. One is Satori, and the other one a "Wierwille Worshipper" I ran into on eBay. It is just as easy to read carefully as NOT to. But if you don't, you just might be forming an inaccurate concept, and thus-- end up believing a lie-- and promulgating it. Apologies to HCW and Rochelle.

Satori's words, folks: "There was no lie because I thought it was the truth" Let me get this straight: Just because you THINK a lie is the truth, that negates the LIE? How about then, all those folks at TWI who believe they are being told the truth when being lied to? Aren't you quick to point out that it is STILL A LIE? Aren't you putting your head in the sand in order to avoid your own responsibility? Or maybe you've been telling lies so long now you believe them yourself. And it was "inconvenient" for you to check your facts and get them straight before you posted something that was derrogatory about a person? What about all the other people who read the lie you wrote and assumed you were telling the truth? To me, you don't sound like someone who is concerned about the truth. Your desire to cut someone else down in order to bolster your own ego won out over the truth. I guess if it works for TWI, it's good enough for Satori, too. That's all I needed to know.

And I detest being lied about. I can and do let a lot of things pass, and have ignored a LOT of previous inuendo from Satori and others. But when it comes repeatedly making misleading statements about my family and baiting my daughter, Uh, yeah. The fur's gonna fly. Mostly off of him. I can't think of a single person I know worth their salt who would let anyone attack their family and just TAKE it. I sure won't.

There was nothing "enjoyable" about the "attention" then or now. I made that post when Grizz connected my name to the article and called for it rather than allow people to speculate and watch it deteriorate into what it did in WayDale. I made my post, answered the questions, ignored your insinuating comments and got off the thread as soon as I could, specifically asking people to LEAVE MY DAUGHTER IN PEACE AND PRIVACY. And the thread went quietly away, where it stayed until YOU BROUGHT IT UP AGAIN. And you brought it up for no other reason than to .... me off and bait my daughter. BACK THE F*K OFF!

Satori, read the thread. I did NOT post until I was ASKED TO. I and another couple mentioned in the article specifically requested Pawtucket to NOT post about it when it was published in the local paper. Skyrider saw the article and started the thread. And I was then ASKED to comment on it by Grizz Bear. And YOU brought it up on THIS thread: "So... anybody seen Craig in the bushes lately? I'm sort of joking, but I am curious about that incident. What ever happened?" Typical that you would twist this to your own ends, and use it to bait my daughter. Anyone wondering about Satori's intentions should acutally use the link he posted for you and observe his behavior on THAT thread. If Satori was serious about wanting to know what happened, he could have read the thread he posted the link to and have the information.

Well, Satori, you brought it up, not me. An incident that occurred when my daughter was a minor child, that was posted without my consent. You have made snide remarks and insinuations about the incident in the past, and have brought it up here again, so I am telling you to back off. I have every right to. Ignore you? I usually do. However, I refuse to ignore your posts if you continue lying about me, and insinuating lies about members of my family. And it takes a very ignorant person to corrupt the quote from Hans Scholl, a man who had more cojones in the face of a tyrant than you would ever dare to dream you could have.

WB, apology is accepted in the spirit with which it was given.

Satori-- Whose Mom posted the story on the internet? When the "story" was posted, it was posted on WayDale, and was NOT POSTED BY ME. Again, BACK OFF.

Back off Satori, I'M warning YOU.

WaterBuffalo-- That was a quote from Satori that I pulled from his own post. HE was wondering if people were talking to HCW about him behind his back, not ME. Here is the quote in it's entirety: "By the way, it's s.a.t.o.r.i, not santori. I'm wondering if you haven't been getting email or private messages from a few weak-minded individuals attempting to "help" you understand my POV." Jenny- Thanks for your support, but watch your step here. Not everything is as it seems. Some of these folks would eat their young alive, not to mention you.

I'm done here. My apologies to Rochelle for the mess this memorial thread turned out to be. She deserves to be treated with more respect.

Yes, Satori, if you decide to try to take my life apart on this thread, or any other, you had damn well better have taken good notes. Of course you don't want to argue when you're caught with your pants down. Any other time, you're game if you think you can get away with it and no one will call you on it. I purposefully ignored your little "fib" on that other thread, but since you are establishing a pattern of lying here, I'm not letting you off the hook this time. You're damn right I'm gonna take a stand here, you're NOT going to LIE about me AGAIN and get away with it. Just more evidence that the truth only matters to you if it agrees with your purposes.

"An aside - by their own comments, Catcup and her husband have never been truly "whole" since they were livin' the doulos dream as pampered (Way-style) ministry lap dogs. Things deteriorated, and they were expelled from their Way World Paradise (HQ)" Tsk, tsk, tsk. "Livin' the doulos dream as pampered ministry lap dogs?" "Expelled from their Way World Paradise (HQ)?" Dearest and Wisest Satori, you are so sadly mistaken, and this is even more evidence that you have no earthly idea who I am, who my husband is, our involvement in TWI, and you don't read quite as well as you think. I believe in another thread-- the one on Forgiveness, you even called us "long-time staffers" You are sadly, sadly mistaken. And anyone who HAS been a long time HQ staffer can tell you that. The only time my husband and I spent as full time staff at The Way International Headquarters was ONE YEAR. And we lived in a farmhouse in Botkins we rented out of the profits of our own business, TAKING A CUT IN PAY TO DO SO. And, uh, oh, yeah, we spent another four whole months as staff on the field in the fall of 1995, TAKING ANOTHER PAY CUT TO WORK FOR THE MINISTRY. We have NEVER lived in ministry owned accommodations at any time other than in-residence. (Oh, yeah, hoo-boy, those dorms were reeeeaallly cushy, weren't they, cooped up in a closet sized room with a gang of other people and eating freezer-burned mystery meat!) Also-- we were NEVER EVER "expelled" from The Way International Headquarters. On the contrary, my husband and I LEFT headquarters after one year on staff in 1983 after confronting people AT THE TRUSTEE LEVEL about abuses I discovered while on staff. Though Walter Cummins begged us to stay, and I was offered another job in a different department if we would stay on, Geek and I decided that to remain on staff under the current situation was NOT of God, we TOLD them so, and LEFT. And any "pampering" that has gone on in our lives is as a direct result of the work of our own hands, in my husband's own businesses, which netted us far more than any ministry paycheck ever did. When I left the ministry, I LEFT OF MY OWN ACCORD. As a matter of fact, when I walked out of the meeting and told my daughter we would never go back, she was upset and called the Wallaces, who asked for a meeting with our family. That TWI marked and avoided us for not putting up with their bull$hit doesn't take a whit away from the fact that I LEFT THEM. Satori, you really do need to get your facts straight before you post. You'd be much more credible.

"I'm wondering if you haven't been getting email or private messages from a few weak-minded individuals attempting to "help" you understand my POV." 'S'matter, Satori, gettin paranoid now?

HCW told his story HIS WAY, like you tell yours your way. I for one enjoyed his unique means of relating the experience. The story itself was broken up by those who wanted only to pick it apart for their own purposes. HCW, your last post was spot on. Satori, your @$$ is the one showing. You over calculated your own intelligence and exposed the ugliest part of your motivation. Deleting the image doesn't change that. Big fish in little ponds don't survive well outside their element.

Yes, that's right, all you peons, get his name straight. It's not Santori, or Sartori, it's Satori, one who believes wisdom has come to him in a flash. For one who says he is "pro all ex-TWI'ers who are sorting out the damage and deceit they've experienced" you certainly are adept at jumping all over innocent people who try to begin to express themselves here and work out the damage and deceit they have experienced. I have a flash for you, o "wise one": * Get the reference? Now, I leave this thread to it's original purpose: to memorialize another victim of TWI's insensitivity. Those who derail it to their own ends are known by their works.