Catcup

A one-time donation to a tsunami fund doesn't make up for the millions of dollars they robbed from followers over the years by falsely representing themselves as God's ministers, all the while clothing Martindale in $1500 suits and Bruno Mali shoes so that followers and their children could subsist on peanut butter sandwiches and used clothing stores. VPW and LCM made it perfectly clear to us for decades that giving to causes other than The Way International were second rate, and that REAL believers only give to TWI. So when did they announce their reasons for an about-face on that policy? And when are they going to announce they made grievous mistakes in handling the hearts of people placed in their own hands, and make restitution for the damage they caused?

So when are they going to show their quarterly reports to everyone like the REAL churches do? And when are they going to acknowlege and apologize for the strong arm tactics and manipulation they used on us for decades? I don't look for an acknowlegement and apology anytime soon. The way TWI deals with past mistakes is to bury the collateral damage and ignore the fact it ever happened. But God sees. And a one-time donation to a tsunami fund doesn't make up for the millions they robbed from followers over the years by falsely representing themselves as God's ministers, all the while clothing Martindale in $1500 suits and Bruno Mali shoes so that followers and their children could subsist on peanut butter sandwiches and used clothing stores.

CW-- The contrast between what your church did and what TWI does is just incredible. Corrodi mentioned in this tape that the law made it clear that a non-profit organization was in no obligation to reveal what happens to their donations to those that give the money. Corrodi also contrasted TWI as a charity NOT having to reveal their money matters to their contributors, with corporations that ARE responsible to tell their shareholders what is done with the money. I don't know what the law says a church does or does not have to do in revealing their finances, BUT: Just because the law says "you don't have to" doesn't mean you should neglect a moral responsibility. Also, TWI constantly blurred the lines for us between a non-profit organization and a corporation. LCM constantly bragged about his CEO position and compared himself to other Corporate CEO's claiming he could run any corporation anywhere. Way Corps in residence were required to attend "Motivational Technique" classes(Manipulation Techniques, IMO) in which we were taught basic sales tactics in how to identify a person's need, show how PFAL (the product) could meet that need, and how to "close" them-- pin them down and get them to sign up. They were high pressure SALES tactics. Was one of the things that really turned me off in TWC. Remember those "Take A Stand Caravan" tours? They were nothing more than an organized high pressure sales program from front to finish. I was listening to a tape that in the announcements featured Vinc* Finn*g*n promoting the tour across the country. He was using high pressure sales tactics on the believers to use the same tactics on friends and family to attend this high pressure PFAL sale coming to their area. The same techniques were used to corrall people into the WOW and Corps program. We're NOT a corporation, we're NOT a business, but let's use high pressure sales techniques and ACT like we're in it for the money (BECAUSE WE REALLY ARE! SSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHH!!!) The non-profit status was nothing but a ruse to get around paying taxes and social security, and legally keeping their follower's noses out of the moneybags. God almighty, I wonder why I put up with it all for so long. It makes me so sick.

I just hate throwing away something that somebody else can use :D-->

She hearkens from New Bern, NC (hence the syruppy accent), where her family are big fish in a small pond. But I think if a P.I. went digging around and turning over stones there, no telling what scum he might find on the bottom side...

I wish he'd been the man he knew to be. The man knew better than to do what he did. Maya Angelou: "When you know better, then you do better."

I never heard VPW or LCM publicly claim to be "The Man Of God," but they both allowed it to be done in their presence without batting an eye. I did hear LCM refer to VPW as such. And he knew when he took the presidential position, that he would then assume the role. It was accepted, and submission was expected.

Makes ya wanna go Hhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm..........

John, I FOUND IT! Make me an offer on PT Yep, there are some pretty good tunes mixed in with this stuff.

A "need to think basis" indeed! Although many seem to think that TWI is "kinder and gentler" these days and therefore more benign, I believe that their "gentler" ways allow them to be ever more subtle in their control of people's minds and hearts, making them even more malignant. WHY and HOW can any grown and mature human being BLINDLY allow this organization to DO THEIR THINKING FOR THEM?!!!!!!!!! They don't need to think unless and until the BOD tell them they need to, and THEN, they will only think what the BOD has allowed them to think!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A week later they had another guest teacher. No mention of any "errors" to be corrected from the last teacher, Jerry Corrodi. The only reason Corrodi would have been hauled up from the legal department by the Board of Trustees to teach a Sunday Night Service, would be to bring in a big legal gun to shoot down a question they were tired of being asked so frequently, and intimidate believers from bringing it up again-- To keep them from Bringing it up again to the BOT Bringing it up to each other and Bringing it up even to themselves. The Boart of Trustees and their appointed flunkies regularly intimidated people into patroling their own thoughtlife in order to cull out all objections and any ideas contrary to the doctrine TWI wanted their people to embrace. Still goes on today.

Shoulda left back in '73 when my hand was on the doorknob and John N*ve yelled, "You'll never get your needs met anywhere else!" Instead, I turned around, walked back to the couch, sat down, and he resumed his tirade.

Dovey I agree-- sometimes government oversight is exactly that: an oversight. And who knows who might get paid off.

Mah~Tilde, ~~~~~~~~~~~Mah Dear! hee hee hee hee hee hee! So good to read you again! Geek and I are fond O'You, too! I, too, intended to give those tapes another listen, but never did until now. There are in fact a few goodies in there. When we first left TWI, and I felt like tossing everything out (I did toss out all my WayRags and a few other things), I decided to wait until the emotions of the moment had cooled somewhat so I did not get rid of things I would later wish I had kept. So, I packed it all up and pushed it into the attic. I later was able to supply the Allen's attorneys with an entire file box of information they otherwise would not have gotten. They still have the stuff. Some things I did toss, I wished later I'd have had to give them. I was just recently contacted by another party who needs some information that I culled from the stacks going off to eBayland.

Oldies-- I could pretty much guarantee that if you were to go to TWI today and ask them the same question, the only "tour" you'd be given would be a trip to the curb escorted by the safety department.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just wonder if LCM transmitted anything more dangerous than athletes foot during his "productions?"

Yes, Trefor, they do have to answer to the government as a not for profit organization. And, yes, they worked with Arthur Anderson to audit their books back when I was on staff-- and boasted about it. We all know what came out about Arthur Anderson-- they were accused of helping corporations cook the books, were they not? At least TWI employed the very "best!" Ralph "knows where the bodies are buried" regarding a second set of books.

I'm having a great time going thru these old SNS tapes, and am occasionaly finding interesting tidbits of information denied or backpedaled on by TWI. For instance, take the term "The Man of God of the Whole World." During some of the legal troubles TWI faced in the recent years, TWI was backing away from that terminology and claiming TWI never indicated VPW or LCM were "The" Man of God, or the Man of God of the whole world. That terminology of course, would indicate that followers believed that this man was THE person who represented God to his followers. And to disobey a request from such a representative of God would hold consequences. The person who chose to disobey "The" man of God or "The Man of God of The Whole World" would be risking God's displeasure. The idea of the leader of TWI being "The" Man of God or The Man of God of the entire world was one of the major concepts which allowed leaders to use their position to intimidate women into sexual submission. For this reason, TWI seemed to want to distance themselves from ever having used this terminology to describe the president and/or founder of The Way International to their followers. Well, folks, just dustin' off the oldies, I ran across an old Rock of Ages brochure with a sketch of VPW and next to it in big, bold, letters, was the phrase, "The Man Of God." Seeing how TWI is such a stickler for accuracy, if this sketch not been approved for distribution to Way Followers at a large public event, it would have been deep-sixed. Then today, I was listening to tape #971, titled "Worship Manifestations," a Sunday Night Service teaching taught at no less a major public gathering than The Advanced Class 1979. This was the Live Advanced Class taught in 1979 at Athens Ohio at Ohio University, a major Way Ministry event which gathered Way followers from all over the world. At major events like this, everything was rehearsed and reviewed ad infinitum. Especially at an Advanced class, where the accuracy of the information is of supreme importance. You would think, that nothing would leave the microphone on that stage that had not first been approved. Or if it was a major mis-statement that would have given Way followers the wrong impression, it would have been immediatley corrected. Victor Paul Wierwille was personally present, and could have immediately corrected and handled anything anyone said that he felt was an innacurate portrayal, especially of himself. During the announcement portion of the presentation, VPW is presented with the first copy of the Aramaic concordance folks at HQ worked on, and beams with pride that TWI is the first in history to put one together, ending with a prayer blessing the work. Immediately afterward, Rev. Vince Finnegan comes out to hawk the "Take A Stand Caravan" that is touring the country, and makes the announcement that, on July 4-7th the Caravan will be in Washington D.C. Finnegan then carefully announces the itinerary for each day hour by hour in D.C., and then declares that, "the very, very special part of this Caravan is that July 4th The Man of God of the World is going to Washington D.C., Dr. Wierwille." PeePull, can it be any plainer? If this was an innacurate portrayal of VPW to the audience gathered, he could have come right out and corrected it then and there. OR-- the tape could have been edited to take it out. However, the event went on as scheduled, and here it is on an audiotape that went out to a world-wide audience of followers who were again reinforced with the idea that this was "The Man Of God Of The Whole World." So, who are you to deny a request. He taught us himself that a polite request is a command. And from no less a personage than The Man Of God Of The Whole World. And, when Loy Craig Martindale stepped into position as president of The Way International, that monniker was laid on his shoulders with the skunk pelt. And we all knew it. So did he. So who are you to deny his "need?" You are groomed to service. You are groomed to obey-- THE man of God.

I am putting up my TWI tape library for auction on eBay, and as I was checking tapes and identifying teachers, I ran across a tape, #860 dated May 8, 1977, titled “Pure Not Intimidated.” This tape is a classic example of how TWI has a history of intimidating people who dare to question them and how they make examples of those who do in order to control their people. As I was listening to this tape, teacher Jerry Corrodi, a consultant to TWI’s legal department at the time, read a letter from a PFAL grad who had simply requested to know where the money went that came from classes and abundant sharing: “Gentlemen, I hope you can help me with an important question that has been put to me. I would greatly appreciate it if you could tell me where the funds from abundant sharing and the different seminars goes to. It would help answer many questions that are raised by my parents and myself at times. Your help in furnishing me with this information would be a mighty blessing to me at this time. I thank you for your time and effort in answering this letter. God bless you.” This seems to be a straightforward and honest question seeking an honest answer. There is nothing in it to indicate the writer is accusing anyone of misusing the funds. It is just a simple, honest question of what they are used for. Also, this was a PRIVATE letter from a person who probably did not expect to be singled out for asking an honest question. Although Corrodi didn’t name the grad directly, his private inquiry was publicly read, made an example of, and published world-wide for each and every tape subscriber to hear and consider. Corrodi used this letter as his opening salvo in a teaching on the subject titled “Pure Not Intimidated,” and insinuated that if a Way follower entertained these kinds of questions, he or she is impure and motivated by fear. Corrodi’s response to this letter: “This is a Power For Abundant Living Grad who’s been asked to defend God’s ministry. This man, who’s been intimidated. It’s a subtle attack, on the ministry. It’s a subtle attack, on Dr. Wierwille.” Corrodi goes on to say that no one outside the board of trustees dictates what is done with the money that comes in. He defends the job the Board of Trustees does and says they have done a great job of moving the Word over the world, and that every dime is scrutinized and watched over. Corrodi admits that he says this "as an outsider from the board of trustees." What does that mean? It means Corrodi has no access to the books and has to take the word of the board of trustees that they are honestly watching over, scrutininzing every dime, and using it to “move the Word.” Corrodi further elaborates: . “Now, I don’t have to defend what they do. All I have to do is hold forth the greatness of God’s Word. All you have to do is the same thing. And the only way I can be defeated is to be intimidated. And I refuse to be intimidated.” In other words, if you are a GOOD follower, you don't have to answer those questions, no matter who poses them, not even yourself. If you ask such a question, you are DEFEATED, motivated by and full of FEAR. And no GOOD follower of The Way wants to be defeated. No GOOD follower of The Way should be fearful. Such questions are an attack on God's ministry and the man of God. No GOOD follower in his right mind would do such a thing. A GOOD follower is not only under no obligation to answer such a question posed by other people, but a GOOD follower will not even allow him or herself to pose such a question. A good follower will simply take the word of the Board of Trustees WITHOUT QUESTION. And so, world-wide, Way followers get the message: You don't dare ever pose such questions, publicly or privately, not even in your own mind. Granted, this is a tape from 1977. But what has changed since that time? Not a damn thing. The books are STILL heavily guarded and the board STILL answers to no one and if you dare to ASK where the money goes, you are STILL regarded as IMPURE and FEARFUL and that the simple act of asking an honest question is an ATTACK on God’s ministry and his ministers.

It took me several years after leaving TWI to come to the realization that the Catholic church was not totally the "Evil Empire" that TWI made it out to be. LCM frequently vented regarding the Pope being a seed boy, and all the nuns were just a bunch of spiritual whores. I adopted that attitude myself for decades, and pray God forgives me for my ignorance. There are good men and bad men just about everywhere you go. You learn to keep the good, and reject the bad. I don't agree doctrinally with many things in the Catholic church, and if you talk to many Catholics, you'll find that a great many of them don't agree with it either, especially regarding the prohibition of admitting women to the priesthood or not allowing priests to marry. But there is a lot of good mixed in with the bad. And J2P2, as LCM used to call him, did more for the human race than that backwards talking/thinking Okie redneck could ever hope to accomplish. And consider these words: "People are often unreasonable, illogical and self-centered-- Forgive them anyway. If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives-- Be kind anyway. If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies-- Succeed anyway. If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you-- Be honest and frank anyway. What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight-- Build anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous-- Be happy anyway. The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow-- Do good anyway. Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough-- Give the world the best you've got anyway. You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God-- It was never between you and them anyway." Who spoke these words? The woman whom L. Craig Martindale publicly considered a spiritual slut: Mother Teresa

My husband's wedding ring is in that pond somewhere. When our wedding party walked over the bridge to the ceremony, my maid of honor dropped the ring on the bridge and it rolled into the pond. I never knew until I turned to her in the ceremony to accept the ring. She fake-handed it to me and whispered "I don't have the ring-- I lost the ring!" I pretended to put it on Geek's finger when the time came, and told him she lost it. During pictures when we were scheduled to have one taken of our hands on the bible, Geek borrowed his brother's class ring and turned it around backwards, and it looked just like the ring I had bought him. Geek went back several times over the years with a metal detector to see if it had been dropped in the areas surrounding the pond and never found it. :(--> Several years later, I bought him a replacement. Falling asleep in meetings was oh so common and fodder for all kinds of pranks. Once during an early morning branch meeting in the "garden level" of Wierwille, we were in an inner room with no windows. One of the guys fell asleep during prayer, and stayed asleep during the meeting. When the meeting was over, we all snuck out of the room, and turned the light off so that it would be pitch dark, and then slammed the door really loud. The poor guy woke up to pitch darkness and ran out of the room real quick to find us all lined up outside in the lobby laughing at him!

Nope, by that time I had been moved to Emporia. Perhaps someone who was at Rome City that block could relay the incident.

My brother-in-law ran at least a household fellowship for nearly 30 years for TWI. When his mother grew so old she could no longer care for herself, he took her in to his house which was too small for his family and his mom. So, he bought a house that was big enough for 4 kids, himself and his wife, and his mother. His reward for taking care of his mother? His household fellowship was taken away. Now, my bible says that if you don't take care of your mother, you are worse than an infidel. So he takes his Mom into his home and cares for her, doing what the Word says to do. His reward for obedience to the Word is to be busted back to nothing, despite being qualified for several decades to run a fellowship. And, yeah, he is still with TWI, taking the abuse and lapping up every bit of it. Yup, sump'n wrong in the upper stow-ry.

One of the most priceless Corps moments for me was when TheEvan mooned the Texas Tomato Tyrant from a moving bus on the way back from watching a movie. Evan......wanna elaborate? ;)-->