Catcup

I answered the above question previously by saying: No, I am not. I do my own thing and enjoy my independence. Your response: "I have reason to think you are involved in his ministry!" Now, you ask another question: "Hmmm So you not involved with high profile splinter group called you know?" If I read you correctly, you now are asking if I am involved in a splinter group called "you know." Well, no. I am not involved in a splinter group called "You Know."

Why no, whatever do you mean?

I just have to ask: Is this genuine spiritual suspicion?

My, oh my. Sounds like an inquisition to me. You have reason to think, eh? On what possible grounds?

Well, a couple times I was in the neighborhood, I drove onto grounds, circled the BRC, laid on the horn in front of Autie Em's house, waved hello to Wanda and Dorothea, waved hello to Bill Greene, noticed the Safety Department people were (no kidding) snoozing underneath a tree. Then I posted on GSC what I did and what date and time this occured, where I went and who I saw right under the noses of the Safety Dept. and exactly where Safety was parked and what they were doing while I buzzed HQ. I woulda loved to have been a fly on the wall of the next Safety dept. meeting!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHEEHEEHHEE So much for their "in depth spiritual perception and awareness!"

If you want to know how Shroyer is doing, you should ask him.

Geek is just fine.

But the cloak would so come in handy when I tour the grounds...

Um, yeah, I thought I said that........ Doctrinal issues for the doctrinal forum. In otherwords, he's not in accordance with the instructions from Cafe management.

I don't agree with what he believes, but he has a perfect right to believe it and talk about it on an open forum-- according to the rules set out by the Cafe management. Doctrinal issues are for the Doctrinal forum.

No, I am not. I do my own thing and enjoy my independence.

Bob, you and Dottie both know so much about what really went on behind the scenes in The Way International. How many times, how many times, did Dottie and you have to patch people up after they were devastated by being used and abused by top leadership clergymen, by LCM, and by VPW? Doesn't it upset you? How many hours have you put into counseling these poor people over the years? How many rear-ends have you covered for in order to attempt to save "God's Ministry?" Aren't you sick of saving someone else's skin when they repeatedly refuse to change? How many times have you had to lie to cover up messes other people made and left for you to deal with? How many times have you had to clean up problems your "buddies" handed over to you after screwing people up? Doesn't it make you sick? How many times have you had to gut your own conscience in order to carry out directives from the BOT/BOD? Have you done it so many times now there is nothing left? How long are you going to take licking someone elses boots and playing fetch for people who would toss you away like so much trash? You could do more for God by leaving and exposing that organization for what it is. Or is dealing with all the collateral damage part of the price you pay for acceptance and security?

How 'bout you raising someone from the dead. I heard John L*nn tried it and failed. You seem to think you've got a better angle on truth than he does. Surely you can sneak on grounds and raise your idol up from his moldering grave. That would solve all your problems, now, wouldn't it?

Thanks Groucho. I figured I wasn't alone in this reaction, and that's why I talked about it here. When it happened, I immediately knew why it was happening-- it just frustrated me that it got in the way of enjoying the presentation more fully. I still got all the information I needed from the seminar, and was able to separate the "feelings" from the speaker and the presentation, and identify the source of those feelings. I can see how some folks might not be able to do that, and would mistakenly transfer those feelings to the speaker. It just frustrated me that I had to deal with that coming up at all, when I thought I was finally beyond the reach of TWI's tentacles. It amazes me how this many years later, I still get surprised once in a while by what floats up when some random trigger occurs. I look forward to the day when like, you, it will be a distant thought that no longer bothers me. Until then, I am careful to identify the true souce of the irritation, and not transfer it to an innocent party.

I thought it was interesting to note, that even when the information being presented was true, and had absolutely nothing to do with The Way International or the content of what they teach, the way in which it was presented made my skin crawl-- even though it was true, beneficial, and life-saving information. At least I had the good sense to realize the problem was with me and how I processed what was presented, and not with the speaker or the content of what was communicated.

I recently attended an educational seminar and a training session for group leaders (totally unrelated to the bible-- it's a medical thing), and I had a hard time wrestling with my brain during the main speaker's presentation and certain parts of the leader's training. Why? The speaker was an internationally known person who was an expert in her field. Why did I have such a problem listening to her? Well, for the simple fact that, it was public speaking which included motivational techniqes. The incidents were expertly used in order to draw the listener's attention, and placed strategically throughout the presentation in order to drive home specific important points and to inspire motivation. She gave an excellent presentation also, on coordinating a group of people, and how to handle various types of people that would be in that group and what to do in different situations that might arise. She delivered an immaculate presentation, kept everyone's attention, and imparted knowlege critical to the field. But why did it bug me so? Because I could recognize every public speaking tool she utilized as tools we were taught in The Way Corps to apply while teaching and in counseling. The speaker I attended in no way was motivated by greed or strife, was not there to twist people's arms, or to sell them a class. It was medically related. But it got under my skin to no end, because the speaker was using tools that TWI had also used and taught, but TWI used them to hurt people. And I found it very hard, just to listen. Because I would hear something and know exactly why she was using a certain incident or relating something in a certain way. I knew where she was going with everything before she got there. I understood the structure of her presentation and her goals from beginning to end. I knew where she was going and why. I wish I could have just sat back and listened to the presentation and enjoyed it for what it was, without recognizing every little public speaking tool that was used. Because, along with that recognition, a bad feeling comes in the back way. A feeling I cannot ignore. Like I'm being sold a bill of goods, that there is something fake about it all, that the person on stage is a huckster, and I need to tune out the message instead of tune into it. It ticks me off that this happens. But yeah, that's a kind of Waybrain.

We got it, Mooney. Thanks. I wonder just how many people got to read about the porno flick in the Advanced Class while that site was up? Wonder how they are going to 'splain that to their new folks.......

Copyright issues aside, I think the main reason TWI jumped on that website is so they wouldn't have to explain to folks they're trying to convert why they were using the pooch pornography in the Advanced Class ... Oh, so embarassing! And they'd have to explain why on earth a 50-60 year old man was showing pornography to minor teenagers...

Yeah, CW, makes ya wanna know exactly what are they ashamed of???

Then maybe you could go there and have a nice talk with, uh....... yourself?

Yep, it's locked down alright. I knew there was no way TWI was going to roll over on this one. Darn, now where is Mike gonna go to find such deep truths?

Mike, it wasn't some "grad" who hurt my sister. It was the man you so revere and worship. There is no way you can justify your worship of this man without being totally offensive to thinking and caring people everywhere.

If only they had just mastered the class?!!! Just another way to lay blame on the one who was victimized, and deflect responsibility away from your idol. And how dare you even assume we were in it for the "social scene" like you admittedly were. Please don't "include" me or my sister in that accusation. You do not know her and you do not know me, nor the depth of and motivations for our involvement. And you feel "If they had read the Scheoheit article they might have pointed their hurt in God's direction and gotten healed." You assume way too much. My sister had her life ruined by your idol and left TWI before Schoenheit ever even knew enough of the Word of God to attempt to write that article. And I am the WRONG PERSON for you to throw Schoenheit's work in MY face. I don't think he would appreciate your using his work to make points he would never support.

I suppose then, you believe, that whatever these women went through at the hands of your idol, was WORTH IT because of what YOU got out of it. Regardless of the wreckage it made of other lives. I cannot think of anything more selfish.

Oh, see, so they should be thankful!