Catcup

Raf-- from the beginning (WayDale) Geek and I posted that we are married to each other. But it's not something we talked about on the board constantly, so if you came in later at WD or later still on GSC, you may have missed it. But I am sure, if anyone wanted to (Song-- since you think Raf's inquiry is sooooooo "serious"), they could look up various posts where over all the years not just at WD but right here at GSC, where when talking about what has happened to my family at the hands of TWI, when referring to my husband and myself, many times I referred to "Geek and I."

Yes it is a public forum and I have every right to post here as well-- whether you like it or not. And on any thread I choose. Part of leaving that cornfield cult was learning to get along with people who may hold vastly differing ideas from mine. I see there are some who still have not learned that lesson, and cannot fathom that my husband and I can have vastly differing ideas and still love and respect one another in a marriage. Sorry to inform you, but you still hold ideas promulgated by The Way International yourself, that the husband and wife must agree on every tiny detail, and if not, there certainly must be something wrong with them. You reveal the intolerance that The Way International holds, and which you hold on to, to this very day. Some also have not learned that even within a church-- or what some would consider an "offshoot," there are people who are allowed to hold ideas and doctrines that vary from one person to the next, without excommunicating one another. I regret to inform you that you still have clung to the idea promulgated by The Way International, that everyone MUST think alike or they are not allowed in your "club." Holding on to these remnants of behavior reveals that you STILL cannot respect people who hold ideas different from your own. I see also, that there are those here who want to do nothing more than falsely accuse innocent parties, and do not accept the truth when it is handed to them. Instead, they would rather follow these people around and pick their lives apart, twisting another person's words to their own ends. This, too is a holdover of the witch hunts from The Way International. I think it is obvious that some folks here have an agenda to follow wherever I post, and throw the threads off topic by attacking a ministry my husband affiliates with-- especially when I did NOT bring it up.

They honeymooned in New Knoxville? Damn! Now THAT'S brainwashed!!!

There is a well-known political couple in Washington D.C. who have been married for years, and are on opposite sides of the political fence. I can't remember their names, but they are occasionally featured in newspaper and magazine articles, or TV shows, because of their opposing views, yet harmonious union. She belongs to and is active in one party, and her husband belongs to and is active in the other. Their marriage continues to turn heads (and make people scratch them) to this day. They are quite happy in their marriage, and quite visible and active in their respective political parites. Politics is an important part of each of their lives, reflecting not only their political/philosophical points of view, but also their livelihood. You'd be hard pressed to find an active member of the democratic party who "condones" everything the republican party endorses, and vice versa. But it doesn't keep this couple from loving each other and enjoying a long and productive marriage. It doesn't surprise me that there are some people who cannot fathom such a union. But that's their shortsight, and actually reveals a bit of intolerance.

This is why we need to keep reminding people that the garbage TWI is promulgating is false, and wrong. They are raising a whole new generation of vipers like themselves, who lack both compassion and conscience. They'll be twice the children of hell that the previous generation was.

As a little boy, my husband was nosing around in his father's darkroom-- his dad's hobby was photography, an outgrowth of his profession as a naturalist and doing television programs on nature and ornothology. He came across (still to this day) unpublished color photographs of holocaust victims both dead and alive. The film had been given to his father by two friends who had been to a camp as it was liberated, and snapped the photos. His dad never "fixed" the photos, as some have claimed was done. He simply developed them. This was not "staged" with dummies and stand-ins. This was real.

The Way International never gave us opportunity to do that-- change our minds, that is, unless we were changing our minds to agree with them. After leaving such a fossilized environment, it is sometimes difficult for us to allow ourselves and each other the space and time (and it takes both) to see the need to, and be able to change. We've had our wings clipped and cramped up inside an extremely limited prison and it takes time to work out the kinks. We should expect a little pain involved from time to time-- ours, and that of the other person. Sometimes both at once. It's normal and natural, when rediscovering our selves and our rights as human beings, concepts that were denied us for decades within the mental bonds of a cult.

CW-- Go right ahead. I'm sure you've got some very interesting & insightful observations to make along those lines.

This is sadly, so, so true.

Most of these people have convinced themselves that "there's nothing else out there," and that "nobody else has the Word as rightly divided as our ministry." However, many of them have subsisted within the confines of this cult so long, that they don't have the wherewithal to survive outisde their "household." Lifelong "friends" (just how good of a friend they really are is only measured by what happens AFTER you leave) are still inside TWI, perhaps family, and they just don't know how to function outside of what is familiar to them. It's easier to stay put where they are, than to strike out into the unknown.

Then again, since the Moneyhands know so much about things Rosie would never want exposed, perhaps she does provide their salary with a little extra padding... Quiets the acoustics, dontcha know...

Makes you wonder. What on earth could they possibly be paying you to put up with it? Personally, I think Bob himself is mentally imprisoned and voluntarily chained inside TWI's closed theology and power structure.

He admitted he knew better. Maya Angelou: "When you know better, you do better." If you know better, and you DON'T change your behavior, you are making a deliberate decision to continue being a fkup-- without regard to the consequences to others. Selfish behavior, IMO.

I think you're right. We had "endeavor to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace" not only drummed into our heads, but distorted to the point that even if we thought someone was wrong, if they were leadership, we were NOT to confront them for the sake of "keeping the bond of peace." Not to mention the fact that I sat through teachings and counseling where I was taught that even if a leader IS wrong, you are obligated to follow them and GOD will make it right. After finally leaving this cult, and finding they have a right to an opinion and a voice, and not only a voice, but a right to stand up for what they truly believe is right, and against what they truly believe is wrong (whether their opinion is correct or not in any given situation) folks begin to exercise those rights and assert themselves whenever they can. I think that part is good. I think it is natural. And I think it is necessary. It is a caged bird finally free, beginning to discover and exercise its wings. But like anything in life, it is difficult to find a balance-- in this case, between exercising your own rights and abilities, and recognizing the other person's right to do the same-- among other issues. Also, TWI interrupted the natural socialization process for many young adults, who came to TWI just when they were beginning to learn how to deal with adult situations, and socially interact with and as adults in an adult world. TWI perverted that process, and unfortunately left many people socially crippled and unable to understand how how to interact in the real world. This can negatively affect them in their jobs and in their family, marital, and social relationships. Not to mention having to deal with the effects of suffering various types of abuse at the hands of sociopathic dominating authority figures. Combine all that with finally discovering your voice and right to an opinion, and you can see what can happen. It is a lot for anyone to have to deal with and there is an endless combination of factors that can easily turn what should be normal conversations into volatile confrontations.

I'm sure Dotty has mopped up plenty of the collateral damage. And you rousted a deathly ill woman from the fellowship because you believe she wasn't telling you the truth? ...never mind. Have you no shame? If you sleep well at night, it's because you have no conscience.

A slippery slope indeed, Tref.

This was exactly my experience. I sat in the same meetings and heard Martindale make the same exclamation: That the Jews of today are no more Jews than the Apache Indians. And yes, the Holocaust was routinely described as either a myth or an exaggeration. I remember one particular Corps night where Martindale had a fit because the NK 8th grade class trip to DC was going to include a trip to the Holocaust Museum. He was absolutely rabid about it and made a big deal out of it with the school, and I think he made them find another activity for the Way staff kids to attend while their class went to the Holocaust Museum. This bilious antisemitic hate literature from right-wing hate groups was routinely passed out to the Way Corps every year in training. I can't believe we sat still for it. But so did nearly all of Germany.

Absolutely.

I'm sure they do, Hamm, I'm sure they do.

Belle, I am sorry too. My presence seems to be a distraction on this thread, so I'm done here.

George, it was Belle's WayBrain thread-- I just put a note at the beginning of this thread in explanation-- Her thread was getting derailed by someone with an agenda and an axe to grind with me, so I put it out here so her thread could get the proper attention it deserves. Go figure, though, the guy is still over there with a full head of steam on a choo-choo detour. Hamm-- I am so sorry if this thread brought up some bad memories. TWI is an @$$hole farm-- just grows 'em by the bushelfull.

Song You have ignored the explicit declared wishes of the author of this thread to take your issues up with me in a Private Topic. Instead, you took the two posts I made to you in PT and published them on the open board. YOU did that, no one else did. Now, you have derailed this important thread another time, and made it all about YOU. I sincerely hope you will seek the help I advised. You need help from a trained professional.

I don't know about those who got married outside TWI, but when we got married by VPW at that huge circus that was a Corps Wedding, our vows went something like this: "I, Catcup, take you, Geek, to be my lawfully wedded husband. To have and to hold from this day forward, to love, to honor, and to cherish, in every situation, and under every condition, according to God's Holy Word." Maybe somebody who has one of those TWI wedding books can get it out and double-check the wording and post it. But there is NOTHING in that vow that says you intend to stay with TWI all your living days. But if you said the same vows WE did, you promised to love, to honor, and to cherish each other in every situation, and under every condition, according to God's Holy Word. Every means every. And God's Holy Word teaches unconditional love. So as far as I am concerned, The Way International was in the business of breaking wedding vows of marriages they disliked, and anyone who did NOT love their spouse in every situation and under every condition, including leaving that ugly cult, is the one who broke the vows.

Intimidation is an effective means some TWI leadership use in order to keep their wives in submission. According to my own close observations over several years, I highly suspect that J*sephine W*ll*ce is at least verbally abused. She is fearful of her husband, who is a master at intimidation among the believers. So John has put another Big Fat Claim on their website. One that is not only untrue, but could possibly get them into a lot of hot water, depending on the advice they give one on one to their people. However I know from experience what the standard line is to the people: Pharmakeia is devil-spirit influenced and ungodly. Hell, according to the definition of the word, aspirin is pharmakeia. And ol' Tricky Vic even used to advise taking an aspirin now and then. But as we all know by now, TWI is consistent only when and where they think it will benefit them.

Darn! And I thought we was gonna get spicy! You're quite welcome, CW.