Catcup

QUOTE Act 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: Act 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. For the most part, that's what we've been doing: sitting back and watching The Way International "come to nought," unraveling all of its own accord, all of its own doing. And conversely, if the organization is coming to nought because it is NOT of God, no amount of your or my intervention will stop it's destruction. Perhaps those trying to salvage that dying organization are the ones fighting against God. Pass the popcorn, please. B)

Oldies If you truly believed TWI could be reformed, you'd put your money where your mouth is. You'd call them up, get back into the fellowship, and then begin your crusade of confrontation to put TWI's house back in order. Otherwise, I'd have to wonder why you truly don't do this yourself. Either you don't truly believe it can be done, or you are concerned that if you tried, you would not be successful. Perhaps deep inside, you really know that NO ONE WOULD TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY, OR THEY'D QUICKLY MAKE YOUR LIFE MISERABLE TO TRY TO RUN YOU OFF, OR TOSS YOU OUT ON YOUR CAN LIKE THEY'VE DONE ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS EVER TRIED IT. If you're not willing to take your own advice, you might want to examine exactly why. You might find you aren't a hundred percent behind your idea, possibly for reasons you don't want to admit to yourself.

Oldies-- If you truly believe TWI can be reformed from within, then get in there and put that belief into action yourself. Then get back to us and let us know how that's workin for ya...

All very good points, Socks. But seriously, younguns... TWI is not the only game out there. Don't let that lie that TWI continually promulgates cut you to the heart and make you feel hopelessly isolated when you consider trying to find a place to fellowship with God and the people He loves. That is the entire intent and design of the lie that "There's no one else out there with the rightly divided Word." Give God more credit as the omniscient power that He is, to not have limited Himself to a cornfield cult in bumf#ck Ohio in order to "reach the world with the Word." There are numerous churches and organizations out there that God probably finds it much easier to work with than a handful of narrow-minded, egotistical, pretentious pr1cks. Like Socks said, look for those who value integrity, honesty, hard work, and have true compassion for their fellow man. There are a gajillion of them out there. Take your pick.

From Until The Final Hour, Junge's memoirs: "I admit, I was fascinated by Adolf Hitler. He was a pleasant boss and a fatherly friend. I deliberately ignored all the warning voices inside me and enjoyed the time by his side almost until the bitter end. It wasn't what he said, but the way he said things and how he did things." There is a very interesting parallel for those who want to read, between the way TWI folk idolized Wierwille, and how Junge idolized Hitler. Amazing how we humans can ignore our consciences in the face of a magnetic personality. Also Junge wrote in her memoirs in 2002: "We should listen to the voice of conscience. It does not take nearly as much courage as one might think to admit to our mistakes and learn from them. Human beings are in this world to learn and to change themselves in learning."

Martindale made mention of this in a Corps night. That's the first place I ever heard the "theory."

You know, I really would like to see some of the young people who truly think for themselves and want to make a difference get in there and actually make it right. But I don't think they've thought through exactly what they would have to do in order to do that, and what the consequences would be. But that thought process is typical of youth and concrete operations. So I'm not surprised they have stars in their eyes. If everything truly WAS made right, here is an approximation of the scenario that would have to occur: Notifications would go out from the Board of Trustees and or Directors via the Sunday teaching service, the internet, and in written form to anyone living who has ever been involved in The Way International. Plainly laid out would be admissions of guilt regarding the following: * The bald plagiarism and appropriation by fraud of other men and women's hard worked material in scripture and other literature, poetry, music, artwork and dance. * Sexual misconduct at every level of leadership. ALL names are named. * Fraud, racketeering, and misappropriation of contributed funds * Coverups of affairs (plural), rapes (plural), child and spousal abuses (plural), molestations (plural) and circumstances surrounding suicides (plural) and other mysterious deaths * Defamations of character of persons both living and dead * Property theft by way of deception * Threats and coersion You get it. I could go on and on. I think Jkboehme has already left a huge list on this site of indefensible actions to which TWI needs to admit in order to truly come clean. Heck, we here could compile an entire list longer than Luther's Ninety Five Theses and nail them to the door of the Word Over The World Auditorium as a challenge, but they will continue to go on unanswered. Why? Because in order to "make it right," The Way International would not only have to admit to the evil they have committed against countless people, but they would have to also make reparations to those whom they have wronged, including returning every red cent they ever defrauded from those of us who truly believed we were donating money to honest and moral upright people. I'd wager to say no one here would have given TWI a plug nickle in order for it to be spent on Dayton hotel rooms for menage a trois and $1500 suits to clothe men and women who lied and deceived and destroyed lives only to then covered it up. To "make it right" TWI would not only have to admit their guilt and exhonerate those they defamed. They would have to make reparations to everyone they have ever wronged and they cannot afford to do it without selling off every last asset they own. In order for The Way International to "make it right," they would have nothing left. That's why they spend so much on lawyers. If they admit it once, it opens the door for their total financial devastation. So, yeah, I'd like to see an entire crew of young TWI kids go and take control of the place, liquidate the assets to those who were wronged, and then shut the place down. It's the kindest, best thing they could possibly do. Then they could start from scratch elsewhere, with their youth, and their idealism, do their own independent research, and not have their futures and their childrens' futures mortgaged to an organization that will be sure to suck them dry and then spit out their useless carcasses when they are old and defenseless. Not holding MY breath.

In the mid- to-late seventies there was a Texas farmer associated with The Way International who although his farm was not owned by TWI, worked with them in conjunction with The Way Corps in "training" Corps personnel. Way Corps in training were routinely dispatched via bus or hitch-hiking assignment for week-long stints there to work on this farm. Sometimes he farmed onions, sometimes tomatoes, but mostly onions, in my recollection. It was a good deal for him, because he was supplied free labor instead of having to pay the illegal immigrants he usually housed in his barracks. He also was known to take his pick of cute young things for ...ahem... extra-curricular activities. I was there during the infamous "mooning" incident. For the uninitiated, that was when TheEvan dropped his draws in the bus door at said onion farmer, who was so offended (Can't understand why-- he was used to seeing Way Corps arse from what I heard) he raised a big stink with The Corps Coordinator who gave us a huge lecture upon returning. Maybe the reason Craig hates onions so much is because this guy was encroaching on his pieces o' tail....

Welcome rickyg I hate to bring out my pin to pop your balloon, but hold still, this will only hurt a little, and don't take it personally... Trying to rescue TWI from itself is an impossible task. SOOoooooo many of us spent our entire youths and fortunes trying to "Make loving changes" in TWI and it was not possible. Feeding more youth to the monster will neither tame nor kill it. It's not just the "former leadership" that is the problem. Just because an old leader "goes the way of the dodo" doesn't mean the atmosphere and habits they deeply instilled in the organization will. When VPW died, his errors did not die with him. His legacy lived on as molestations and adultery continued at every level. Martindale being hustled off grounds did not cause lies and adultery and rape to cease within TWI. The coverups and lies continue to this day and are perpetuated by a machine out of control. The internal culture of that organization is so corrupt that anyone who ventures inside TWI with the naieve intent to convert it is consumed by it. They are either assimilated or spat out. And to what "next level" could anyone "take" TWI? If these kids really are "chomping at the bits" to "get in there and serve like their parents," they will be twice the children of hell their parents are now. Especially if they have swallowed The Way International's definition of "love," and "service." The Word says that if a ruler hearkens to lies, all his advisors are evil. ALL of them. And if they are evil, they ALL need to be scrapped. From the top all the way down. The infrastructure is so rotten that to try to build upon it is a waste of time. Remember that children's song? The wise man built his house upon a rock. TWI at best is shifting sand. Quicksand.

As far as human development goes, a great deal of the work of adolescence, in developing your own sense of self and autonomy, is to be able to separate yourself from your parents and form your own set of values to which you can become loyal. This means that you choose the values and people to whom you are loyal, rather than simply accepting your parents choices. This milestone marks a critical development in the cognitive life of a human being, in which he or she has attained a higher level of thought processes involving independent reasoning. Those of the younger generation who have broken with their parents' idolatrous devotion to a sick organization, have accomplished this task of moving on to the cognitive stage of formal operations. And, they have succeeded in doing so in an untenable environment, which speaks both to their level of intelligence and determination. Those children of TWI who have gone on to college, yet still embrace the views of their parents solely because that is what they have been taught, are headed toward psychological trouble: It is quite possible they have become stuck in the concrete operational stage, unable to completely reason on their own and fully develop independent thought. In the concrete operational stage (this usually develops around the ages 7-12), the human being becomes capable of logical thinking, but not abstract thought. It is during the teenage and young adult years that a human being must break out of that level and into the arena of formal cognitive operations by being able to formulate their own (truly their own) opinions and values, based solely upon reason and not repetition. Those who cling to TWI doctrines simply because it is what they have been taught, are in danger of never fully developing independent thought. TWI allows "logic" of the concrete stage, but not the independent reasoning of formal operations, stunting intellectual and emotional growth. A person stuck in that stage believes they have attained the pinnacle of reason, because they can use logic, however they can only use logic within a strict framework. Logic without liberty is NOT reason. Congratulations to those of you who escaped the crushing influences of that cult.

When Bo and Stanley became engaged many moons ago, VPW made a gift to young Bo of a spot of land in the woods where he used to pitch his tent, and tend the campfire during his time in residence. The spot had always been special to Bo. VP told Bo and Stanley they were welcome to build their dream home on that land if they wanted. Funny arrangement, though. The house would belong to Bo and Stanley, but the land still belonged to The Way. I suspect this was the kind of arrangement VP once proposed for Wayfers at Gunnison, that no one took him up on: You can use your money to build the house on the land, and use it like a time-share, but when you die, the property goes lock stock & barrel to Der Veg. Check with Bo and Stanley on this, but I believe this was the rough arrangement, as told to me at the time (roughly 1973-74) by Stanley's aunt. It was VP's wedding gift to them. So Bo and Stanley designed the home and had it built WITH THEIR OWN MONEY, and enjoyed it for many years, allowing TWI to "use" it during times they were assigned to on-the-field positions. I'm sure that being young, they either didn't totally understand what was being offerred to them, or at least never dreamed they'd be shut out of the home they PAID FOR WITH THEIR OWN MONEY. But when they were no longer welcome at The Way, they were ALSO no longer welcome to use the home THEY PAID FOR. Yes, it was STOLEN from them. This is not The Corps Chalet, though. The Corps Chalet is a separate larger building, just a little further down the same road. THAT one was stolen from The Way Corps.

The Way International has actually become the lifeless "stick" they warn against. It is they who are cut off from the land of the living.

Has anyone else here read The White Rose by Inge Scholl, and watched the German movie DOWNFALL? The book is about the only organized German movement against Nazism in WWII, and the students who risked and lost their lives in an effort to speak out and wake up a nation hypnotized into a stupor by Adolf Hitler. DOWNFALL is about the last days of the Third Reich, portrayed from the point of view of Traudl Junge, Hitler's secretary who witnessed it all, and lived to recount her experiences. The movie opens and closes with actual footage of Junge, and her comments about how she was caught up in Nazism. What specifically caught my attention is how she answered the questions about how could she have been so close to Hitler and all the higher level people, yet NOT know about the extent of the Holocaust. Her comments at the end of the movie are particularly poignant when taken to heart compared to our involvement in a ministry that committed what I view as spiritual atrocities along the same line (while not nearly the same degree) as the Holocaust. If you haven't done so yet, you might want to pick up The White Rose and give it a read. You really should know about the heroic deeds of the organization known as The White Rose. BTW living your life "like a candle in the wind" didn't come from Elton John. He lifted those words from Inge Scholl about the bravery of her sister in the face of National Socialism. DOWNFALL is a stunning production that won Best German Film, awards from Bavarian Film Awards, and Bruno Ganz won Best Actor for his part as Hitler in this movie at the Santa Barbara Film festival. Unless you are fluent in German you will need the subtitles. However, the movie not only is historically quite accurate, but to watch the cognitive dissonance as Junge is caught up in the last days in the bunker with Hitler draws some interesting parallels from those of us who worked closely with TWI leadership while the ship of state began to take on water. Give the book a read, and give the movie a view. Well worth your time, and it would be interesting to hear your perspectives.

I could not agree with this quote more. I can think of no greater debasement, than to be used by a paid minister of The Way International to convey threats of death to a Way follower who was not toeing the line. I think that is probably the lowest spot I hit while still a leader within The Way International, when I actually carried out Mxrk Wxllxce's directives toward a person under my responsibility. I heard what Wxllxce said, I knew deep inside me that what Wxllxce was ordering me to say to this poor man was so absolutely cruel, and everything in me cried out that it was wrong, yet I still carried it out, against my own conscience, in obedience to the minister to whom I was held accountable. How does a person with a pure heart whose prime motivation is only to help others, get to the point that they carry out policy that is so absolutely detrimental? You go through The Way Corps. You discipline yourself to what they tell you to do, because you want to be a faithful leader for God, deemed worthy and entrusted to serve his people, to bind up their wounds, to set them free. Once there, you learn to blindly obey. And you are forced to maim and imprison innocent followers, while your tortured conscience screams and writhes in pain inside your paralyzed mind. That is contamination, robbing both leader and follower of their humanity, and their dignity.

The most useful information I learned in TWI were memory pegs. I use them constantly when studying for my own exams, and teach them to the students I tutor. Even use them for quick grocery lists. They still work! But then again, memory pegs were not originated by TWI. Another trick they borrowed from Dale Carnegie or some study skills course somewhere.

Just sitting back, myself. Don't need to "do" anything but enjoy watching the circus. They do a bang-up job all by themselves.

Nope.

Yeah, folks are jumping ship, alright. Welcome to solid ground, finally.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((OneFullaHope))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, Linder, since you are the one who is supposed to track things and people down, why don't you go up to the Corps office and find out exactly who or what happened to the $10 check I sent for my transcripts that magically "disappeared" when I specifically asked that those transcripts be sent in a timely manner to my employer? I also requested a copy to myself that I can use for comparison for what is already in my files, and what you are sending to my employer. Just wanna make sure they are the same, you know. Wouldn't want one set sent to me, to differ from what is sent to my employer, or to differ what I have in my own records. Wouldn't be Kosher, y'know. Funny, how those darn checks can just up and disappear, now isn't it? Especially when "timely manner" is specifically included in the request, and when the request is from me, especially. I have to ask what happened to the check I sent to The Way International, and double check my transcripts to make sure you are on the "up and up." Damn, why is this debbil-possessed, ex-way, ex-Corps, Copout beeyatch so picky, you ask? Because of Mxrk Wxllxce's advice to me in 1997 when I asked before, to get a recommendation FROM a previous employer, a medical doctor who was still active with TWI. You see, I had worked for this employer for several years, and she told me I had done "exemplary work" with her patients. However, AFTER I LEFT TWI I was told by Wxllxce I needed to contact him for anything I needed from anyone with TWI from now on. So when I contacted him and told him I needed a recommendation from my previous employer, he told me "I wouldn't ask for anything from her if I were you." Why? "Because you probably won't get a good recommendation from her." Why, who are you to speak for how a medical doctor (whom you don't personally know) would run her own practice, and What would change, after being told for years that my work was "exemplary?" "Your character is now in question." So, you are telling me that she would disparage her OWN character and now LIE about my work with her, that she previously said was "exemplary?" "Click." So I get it it. You don't trust me. So get this: I don't trust you. And proof again, that I can't: You guys can't keep up with a $10.00 check in your own friggin office, that is supposed to be run with "biblical effeciency and accuracy." I can only assume you "lost" the damn check on purpose. And by the way, that's MRS. MxRCIx Nxsslx. JxN is my husband. I prefer to be directly addressed when I make a request.

*YAWN* I'm sorry, how rude of me. Next time I'll cover my mouth when I do that.

Editing is a handey item to yuse when typing out a post, since sum of us might need to consolt a dictonery in order to make sure we spelt something corectly or rightly define a consept. Its nice to now we can come back and correct those little mistakes and don't have to council with a counsel for permision in order to change a think or too, like tipos or mispelt words. Hek, it wood even make sense to add spelchick to our little fourum, dontchathink? However, I believe copious editing should be marked with time and date, to indicate that a post has been repeatedly or possibly radically altered from it's original content. When a person is allowed to make substantial changes without dating those changes, some replies to the post will not only not make sense, possibly throwing a thread into confusion, but also if there are no edit indicators whatsoever, it would be impossible to prove someone altered what they had previously typed.

Correctomundo, Wingnutter. Don't expect your phone to ring. And anyone who ever spoke a single word against the MOGFODAT in his absence, had best watch his or her backside. It would all happen very slowly, though. Let the memory fade as the python slowly twists his way around its prey. Then when they least expect it, out of the clear blue sky...

No offense taken, Ham. You may be right. And I just might write a book yet.....:ph34r: