Catcup

I have no idea how anyone can know these things about Wierwille and still hold the man dear. And I use the term "man" loosely. I certainly don't.

XO, ex.

You are forgiven.

Well, you addressed me personally, so how can it NOT be for me to personally answer?

Every person The Way International or it's designated ministers could drive to suicide was one less person who could expose their dirty truth. It is my own personal opinion, that in that respect, some of the so called "suicides" may have actually been murders. The person is grief-stricken, confused, and depressed. They are intentionally isolated from their only support network, and intentionally taught that: "Your life no longer matters to God," and that "...the household would be better off if you didn't take up space on the earth!" and "...You are no longer fit to breathe the same air as the faithful believers!" And the clincher: "...You would be better off if you would drop dead, in order to save your rewards!" Those specific directives were quoted many, many times by Craig Martindale in Corps nights AND Advanced Class Specials that I attended. I witnessed every word, every viscious, calculated word spit forth from his perverted mouth. I took notes, and have handed them over to the legal team. I personally believe certain of those suicides may have been murder by design. This is MY OWN personal opinion, which I have a perfect and legal right to. Yours may vary. But think about it. It really is the perfect crime. If you have approached a person with sexually servicing you and they deny you, or if they are aware of your secret behaviors, you're in a real fix. You don't want them around because what they may know could be extremely dangerous to your reputation and especially your livelihood. So you use everything and everyone in your power to stop them. So, there is a self-destruct message included among the indoctrination. Along with completely separating and isolating people from any support network whatsoever other than The Way, you build into the doctrine a person's worthlessness to God if they "cop out." Then at the proper time if need be, the person is mentally, physically, emotionally, financially and or spiritually harassed by whatever means The Way International has at their disposal, to the point of confusion and desperation, and then they are summarily dumped while in a completely vulnerable state. Whatever is in the power of The Way International, they will and have used, especially at but not limited to HQ: Intimidation techniques (legal and otherwise), the person's so-called Way friends, innie family members, spouse, even goons from the Safety Department to pack your things while you are in the office being confronted, and then they dump you curbside like the ripped bag of maggot-dripping garbage you now believe you are. Then they continue defaming you in every public and private forum available to them, to everyone who ever mattered to you. In that greatly disturbed and completely vulnerable state, all that person knows and believes and can fall back on is what they have been taught: they are the one who is screwed up, it's their fault, they are a burden to and have brought shame upon themselves, upon the "household," upon the "ministry that taught them the Word," and upon even God Himself. And in order to save what little rewards they may have left, it "would be better for them to die." So they do it by their own hand. For the good of the "household" and the furtherance of "The Word." They take solace in the fact that their final act in that way is somewhat redeeming, because they are "...removing their sorry carcass from the face of the earth (Craig's words)." Look Ma, no fingerprints. Except God sees. God knows. And He will NOT FORGET. Nor will I.

The very first suicide I ever heard of that occurred at The Way International shocked me. It happened in the very early 70's, and I couldn't understand how anyone in TWI could ever get so depressed that they would take their own life, especially someone who worked at The Way International headquarters, and someone who was in such close proximity to "the Man of God." The woman had killed herself in the little outbuilding commonly known as VPW's "clubhouse." What I know now makes the entire situation much more clearer than it was to me then. John Lynn, my limb leader at the time, simply wrote her off as being "possessed," and that "Dr. Wierwille had done everything in his power to help her." Funny how that label of a person being "possessed" had a way of stopping your mental processes in their tracks-- no more questions, that "explained" everything. It explains everything, alright. It's The Way's way of destroying the character of those whom they victimize.

Ramona Bidon was a defendant in the Allen vs. The Way International lawsuit. She bought into the doctrine Martindale learned from Slick Vic and taught to his inner circle: Sex is nothing more than satisfying a physical urge like scratching an itch: "like sticking your finger in your ear," as Slick Prick Vic was fond of saying in the Christian Family and Sex class, and Craig was fond of quoting both in public and private counsel. Sex between two adults, married or not, married to each other or not, is A-OK with God as long as the participants have a "renewed mind" about it and can "handle" it. Any woman who lends her body to "the man of God" is rendering a special service, even has a special ministry within the body of Christ. Those with this special ministry were gatekeepers responsible for scoping out the flock for potential servants, instructing them in the sex doctrine of the inner circle, and then filling the 'Man of God's' stables with fresh new fillies to service his needs. This task Ms. Bidon and others apparently took personally. This is one of the reasons she was named as a defendant in the above-named legal action. She allegedly actively indoctrinated and recruited sex toys for Martindale. Yes, I believe she is evil and accountable. And for more than just the death of her husband. And mind you, these people who were gatekeepers in the inner circle, are still in The Way International, and still part of the inner circle. Rosalie Rivenbark is allegedly one of them. Perhaps helping keep the Man of God's stable full left his wife free for other -ahem- services... The judge in the aforementioned legal action felt Rivenbark was privy to certain of Martindale's actions. It's public knowlege, revealed in the legal documents.

And Johniam, exactly how many hypothetical children, either living or aborted, are involved in these hypothetical wife/wives/mistress relationships?

How 'bout these words? Well-behaved women rarely make history --Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

The reason we are having colder winters is a result of global warming. Global warming stalls the natural water-flow patterns of the Atlantic ocean that pump tropical air toward the north Atlantic, and carry cold water south, leading to much colder winters in areas which include our neck of the woods. Check it out: http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2005/021...ngwarning.shtml

You can bet that it was, along with the many others who left during that time year after year. Christmas break was a huge hole in the Corps program rosters until they made some major tune-ups to their control techniques.

A few recipes from Happy Eating that may be familia to ya: I highly recommend using a Kitchen Aid stand mixer with a food grinder attachment. At Emporia, a huge Hobart mixer was used to make Brawnfood in gargantuan batches, but it was rarely done for the 6th Corps because the mixer was old and the recipe was a big strain on the motor! Brawnfood 1 cup raw peanuts 1 cup raw rolled oats 1 Tbs. oil or honey 2-2 1/2 cups raisins Put peanuts through food grinder. Mix with rolled oats and put through grinder again. Next, pour oil or honey over raisins (to keep from sticking to the grinder) and add peanut-oat mixture to raisins. Put it all through the food grinder again. It will be moist enough to press into an 8-inch square Pyrex dish. Cover and refrigerate until serving time. It will keep 1-2 weeks and makes 16 two-inch squares. Variation: Add any or a combination of the following: nuts (any kind), dried figs, dried apricots (or other fruits) or 3 Tbs. peanut butter. Sesame Seed Squares 1/2 cup honey 1/2 cup peanut butter 1 cup non-instant powdered milk 1/2 cup shredded coconut 1 cup sesame seeds Warm honey and peanut butter together. Add dry milk, coconut, and then seeds, mixing well after each addition. Then spread mixture into a 9x9 inch square pan. Refrigerate, then cut into squares. Yields one dozen squares. Familia 1/2 cup flax seeds 2 cups rolled oats 1 cup granola 1/2 cup toasted wheat germ or bran 1/2 cup brown sesame seeds 1 cup sunflower seeds 1 cup raw peanuts 1 cup mixed raw nuts (pecans, walnuts, hazelnuts, almonds) 1 1/2 cups raisins (or dates, prunes, currants, figs) Mix together first 6 ingredients. Grind the nuts in a mill and add to the mixture. Then mix in raisins or dried fruits. Keep in glass jars in the fridge. Soak familia overnight in a little water before eating in the morning. Only soak the amount that will be eaten the next day. Soaking familia stimulates the action of the enzymes in the raw grains and seeds, which aids in digestion. When we got the stuff, rather than with water, it was usually served with Fig Pep which can be ordered at the following website: http://www.areclinic.org/CayceCorner/detai...oduct_ID=MH-FIG

At some point they stopped calling them Christmas Breaks and began calling them "Ho-Ho Relo." The Corps Director (LCM) and VPW were concerned regarding the number of new Way Corps who dropped out of the program after only 4 months, when returning home for Christmas break. The association with family who are not under the control of TWI, the reintroduction of outside media and adequate amounts of sleep and nutrition seemed to put a "pinch" in the Corps numbers at that time. So, a little "revision" of the "purpose" of this "time period" was in order. They stopped "Christmas" for the obvious pagan reference, and stopped using "Break," because the word infers a respite from the previous activity. "Relo" or "relocation," simply inferred that even though they were changing locations, they were to continue their former activities of reality/brain disengagement.

"It's not what I have accomplished in this life that is so great; it is what I have overcome." W.E.B. DuBois

This Christmas I put a Christmas Tree up in my livingroom and made sure I had plenty of angels on it. I made doubly sure that they had wings and some even hold songbooks and are in the pose of singing. Most of my Christmas Cards say Merry Christmas. They should. It happens to be the name of the holiday, as mentioned above, unless of course you are celebrating Chanukka or even Kwanzaa. By the way I have also been known to have a Kwanzaa display in my home as well as Christmas displays. Celebrating one does not preclude the other. I have Santa Claus on my tree as well, along with flying reindeer and even -gasp - ELVES! I do make sure the cards I send to my innie relatives say Merry Christmas quite prominently, just to make a point. And to make another point, I attended a Christmas Concert in a Church conducted and performed by members of Cleveland Lesbian/Gay/Allies and it sounded far better and was performed with more heart than anything I ever witnessed on the stage of the Weirdness Over the World Auditorium. And today I am treating a homeless woman to some decent food, and some well-deserved pampering for a week at a local spa where I have a membership. So according to TWI (and possibly others) I guess I am simply totally given over to worldliness, ungodliness and paganism. So be it. And I pity those who are so backward and mentally bound by intolerance that they are blinded to the love that sent Jesus here in the first place.

I'll toss a long on the fire for you, but I hate to tell you that global warming is a reality. I know it's hard to believe during the winter, especially the ones we have up north and near the Great Lakes. However, we are welcoming Polar Bears to the endangered species list now. They are drowning in record numbers because their habitat, the polar ice cap, is melting, with large chunks of it breaking off, floating out to sea, and stranding bears miles from solid ground. A sad state of affairs, but true.

"Long walk part of gift." I love it!!!!!

:o

Kit, I think your gifts are just great-- especially thoughtful, the wrapped garlic to the lo-carb chef. That shows thought, shows heart, and consideration for the needs of others (which btw is classic Kit, IMO). And yes, the thought is what it is all about, and should not have to be expensive. Lord knows, I have had many a lean year myself, but you can still give something from the heart, something you make yourself. Every year, I bake stollen to give as gifts to friends and family. It doesn't cost a lot, but it does take time and effort. One particularly tough year when TWI had bled us financially dry, I had bare pennies to spend on gifts. I went to the Dollar store, bought plain white sweatshirts for everyone in my sister's family, and decorated them with iron-on snowflake decals. But wanting to give my sister something even more meaningful, I also dug into my own treasured antiques and gave my sister a handpainted wegwood china plate of mine which to this day she displays in her china cabinet. Another year my husband and I did not have anything to spend on each other. I made him a coupon book with coupons he could cash in whenever he wanted-- good for his favorite dinner, a walk together on a Nature trail, a backrub, etc. He LOVED it, and loved cashing in on everything I promised whenever he wanted! I have also made coupon books for busy Moms for free babysitting or catered home cooked dinners that they can cash in at any time they wanted. Use your imagination. Today I am wearing a hand-knitted scarf given to me by a prized professor. I am sure it did not cost a whole lot for her to make, but it is beautiful to me-- it is the heart, effort, and thought that make it so meaningful. It takes no heart or thought at all to toss two-month old stale Halloween candy into a bag and try to pass it off as something meaningful. I guess what I was trying to get across with this thread is, put your heart into whatever it is you do, or be honest and just don't bother.

After spending $25.00 each on my brother-in-law, his wife, and each of his four children, we actually got the left-over Halloween candy their kids got while trick-or-treating. That was the last time I bought gifts for them.

Heard a lot of discussion in front of The Way Corps by VPW concerning his choice. VPW never claimed revelation at least publicly in any of the meetings I was privy to-- just gave a lot of other reasons regarding Martindale's discipline, past performance as WOW coordinator, experience with The Way Corps training (both his own and in residence), and as Corps Director. And mostly, he simply allowed Martindale to run off at the mouth about his own incidents in the Corps training, much of them he later related in VeePee and Moi.

Do a little comparison here: " ...in the POW camps the overseers used psychological techniques to make the prisoners totally dependent upon them..." In residence, for a prescribed period of time after first arriving, you were not allowed to have any outside contact with media at all: no newspapers, magazines, radio, or television. Anything we needed to know came from our overseers, and from them alone. Also, no musician was allowed to sing or play his or her instrument. No artist could pick up a brush, no writer a pen. All "creative" pursuits were curtailed. "... and described how some prisoners would even develop an affection for AND EVEN DEFEND their captors..." Nah, I won't mention any names here. "...the captors constructed a prison cell actually in the mind of the prisoner, by consistently demonstrating to him that any attempt at escape would be futile, and that the prisoner could not exist without the captor." How about for instance, "There's nothing else out there. No one else teaches the Word like this. The only thing awaiting those that 'cop out' is utter spiritual, financial, emotional, and physical devastation" and how about this one for a specific example: "You'll die a lonely old man, you'll be hobbled for life, and your daughter will become a stark raving lunatic". "...A parent/child type of mentality and relationship would develop, along with a destruction of motivation for the prisoner to even attempt to escape. So much so, that they could predict when a prisoner could actually be trusted to not even try to escape, even when the avenue was presented. Something they called "learned helplessness." A "faithful believer" will "stand steadfastly with the prevailing household of The Way" regardless of what his earthly family decides to do. He will not even consider attending an alternative bible fellowship or consider an opposing point of view when presented to him. Here, hold still, just let me put this collar on you... it just has your name and address on it just in case you get lost.... ........ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAPP!!!

JKB-- As an aside here: You mentioned you have a book in your possession with the name "Martindale" in the front cover-- Loy does have an undergraduate degree in psychology. It is entirely possible you have one of his old textbooks. This undergraduate degree means he knew enough about what he was doing to be pretty dangerous, at least in my opinion. As a matter of fact, one night in Kenyon Hall, he gave the 6th Corps an interesting teaching on the subject of brainwashing and I believe what is termed as the "Stockholm syndrome." This was done in response I believe, to some of the accusations of anti-cult people that The Way was brainwashing their recruits. This was my very first in depth teaching on the subject of brainwashing, and it came straight from the a$$ er.. the horse's mouth. Martindale taught that in the POW camps the overseers used psychological techniques to make the prisoners totally dependent upon them, and described how some prisoners would even develop an affection for AND EVEN DEFEND their captors. Also mentioned was how the captors constructed a prison cell actually in the mind of the prisoner, by consistently demonstrating to him that any attempt at escape would be futile, and that the prisoner could not exist without the captor. A parent/child type of mentality and relationship would develop, along with a destruction of motivation for the prisoner to even attempt to escape. So much so, that they could predict when a prisoner could actually be trusted to not even try to escape, even when the avenue was presented. Something they called "learned helplessness." Same principle used on dogs and the "electric fence" today. The dog gets shocked every time he tries to leave the yard. Eventually, you could take the collar off the dog and turn off the electricity, and the dog will remain in the yard, and not even a passing rabbit can tempt him to cross the line. What is amazing is, we all sat there and listened to him teach this, and not one of us connected the dots to our own situation. All we could say was, and very confidently I might add-- no one was forcing us to stay in The Corps, we were there of our own free will, because we loved God and trusted VPW and LCM. No barbed wire around the campus or locks on the outsides of our doors keeping us there. Just the ones in our brains... Can you say........ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAPP!!!

Ricky, I know this is a lot of information to take in, but please don't be intimidated. The Way International's doctrines and practices were all designed to isolate you from any support systems you might have outside their confines. That does two things: First, it helps keep the people in the organization (and the money in the coffers). People are afraid to leave or afraid of being forced to leave. And because they've been told those who have left are possessed and are spiritually or otherwise dangerous, followers are afraid of coming into contact with them. The doctrine your friends have embraced has trained them to not allow themselves to even consider certain truths and facts. In this manner, followers are kept from obtaining any meaningful information from the outside, that would enable them to detect the errors on the inside. It prevents any truly objective thought regarding teachings and practices of the group. Secondly, the doctrines that a follower learned inside The Way, punishes the follower when he leaves The Way. The follower has been taught that if a person ever does exit the organization, he is outside God's protection and love. When he finds himself outside the organization, he is traumatized, ostracized and isolated. The doctrine he has learned teaches him that he is unworthy of the love and protection of God and the people whom God truly loves, and as a result he has been abandoned. The ex-communicant is left on the outside looking in, wishing for the "good old days" of "sweet fellowship" and "hot bible," still under the FALSE impression that nearly everything of spiritual value is still within the organization he can no longer be a part of. Before the internet existed, this state of confusion and self-deprication could have lasted for years or even decades, because there was no efficient way significant numbers of ex-follwers could compare notes on their experiences, and see the pattern of lies, deceit, and damage left by the actions of this organization. With the advent of the world wide web, The Way International can no longer keep people blind and continue to punish them with lies even after they are gone. We've pulled the curtain back for all to see the pathetic ugly truth that it has all been smoke, mirrors, lies, and manipulation. What many are learning is that the "sweet fellowship" was mostly shallow. The doctrine Way followers still embrace prevents them from actually being a genuine friend to anyone who is not part of the group. And, as WordWolf has pointed out, the so called "hot bible" was plagiarized truths, laced with spiritual opium I might add. That's why The Way International does their best to "warn" people about going onto the internet. Fear is continually used to keep people in line. Take your time to do a lot of reading on this site, and allow yourself to come to the realization that your TWI "friends" are unable to allow themselves to embrace the truth, and think logically and objectively. A big "ferinstance" would be the following: Your "intelligent" TWI "friends" in college are aware, I'm sure, of the colleges policies regarding plagiarism, and wouldn't dream of turning in a plagiarized paper. But they are incapable of cognitively applying that concept to the published products of their dearly beloved "doctor." They either don't allow themselves to believe he built his entire ministry on plagiarized material, or they somehow excuse it as permissable in his case. These people either choose to remain blind or poke out their own eyes. Count your blessings you are out, my friend. And don't let their short-sighted comments to you cut your heart. They are the ones who are mentally and spiritually impaired, and continue to remain outside the will of a loving God.

Liffy, you'll have to ask Evan about that. But, I do think that particular trip may have had more than one incident. The one I witnessed happened on the bus trip back from watching John Denver in the movie Oh God. The bus pulled up alongside the car the farmer was in, Evan stepped down into the stairwell of the front door, and dropped his pants :lol: During that stint at the onion farm, I worked the entire time in the kitchen of said barracks, and never ventured out except maybe once, to the fields. However, when we got back, Gerxld Wrxnn blew a gasket and called a huge meeting where he reproved our entire group for multiple incidents of moonings. From what I understand, when the slave driver, er, farmer was perusing his slaves, er, domain from a vehicle, an entire group of workers turned and dropped their draws for him. Reminds me of a scene in a Mel Gibson movie... I believe there were even several more incidents, which is why Wrxnn was sooooooo ticked. Maybe that is what you remember? And were there pictures?????